Please Enlighten Me... - AVS Forum
Speakers > Please Enlighten Me...
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 07:10 PM 10-19-2013
I have a B&W CM9 powered by Anthem MRX 700. I was in a condo before and my set up was a little bit cramp (pic below). When I moved to a bigger place, I noticed the volume is louder compared when I was in a condo, like 5 db louder. The condo had an 8 foot ceiling and the new place is at least twice as high. I also sit further away (about 2 - 3 feet) in the new place.


Old Set Up



New Set Up



How could that be, shouldn't it be the other way around?

sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim 07:45 PM 10-19-2013
Ah, yes, the well-known Tidy Cat Effect.
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 07:54 PM 10-19-2013
What do you mean by that?
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 07:56 PM 10-19-2013
That's not a cat litter box. My wife just put it there because I still have some audio and video cables on the floor.
sivadselim's Avatar sivadselim 08:17 PM 10-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

That's not a cat litter box. My wife just put it there because I still have some audio and video cables on the floor.
wink.gif
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice 08:18 PM 10-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

When I moved to a bigger place, I noticed the volume is louder compared when I was in a condo, like 5 db louder..How could that be, shouldn't it be the other way around?
Not necessarily. Looking at the picture the mains are spread a lot further apart in the new room, and that can result in both actual and perceived increases in SPL.
Geoff4RFC's Avatar Geoff4RFC 08:20 PM 10-19-2013
I recognize that basket, use to have an assorted size of them.

Could be the increased width in your front stage?

Also, just an observation (killer speakers btw), have you considered bringing them forward so nothing crosses their plane, and toeing them in just a tad? This may improve imaging.
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 09:22 PM 10-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not necessarily. Looking at the picture the mains are spread a lot further apart in the new room, and that can result in both actual and perceived increases in SPL.

You are probably right. Now, the speakers can 'breathe' and soundstage is a bit bigger as well.
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 09:25 PM 10-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post

I recognize that basket, use to have an assorted size of them.

Could be the increased width in your front stage?

Also, just an observation (killer speakers btw), have you considered bringing them forward so nothing crosses their plane, and toeing them in just a tad? This may improve imaging.

Yes, this is the biggest size of them all.

I will try to toe them in a bit and see if it will make a difference. Thanks.
craig john's Avatar craig john 09:48 PM 10-19-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

I have a B&W CM9 powered by Anthem MRX 700. I was in a condo before and my set up was a little bit cramp (pic below). When I moved to a bigger place, I noticed the volume is louder compared when I was in a condo, like 5 db louder. The condo had an 8 foot ceiling and the new place is at least twice as high. I also sit further away (about 2 - 3 feet) in the new place.

How could that be, shouldn't it be the other way around?
Is that 5 dB a "measured" 5 dB, or a "perceived" 5 dB? If "measured", how did you measure it?

Is your system properly calibrated? Was it calibrated in your previous space?

Craig
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice 07:26 AM 10-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

You are probably right. Now, the speakers can 'breathe' and soundstage is a bit bigger as well.
From a technical standpoint there are two factors. One, the closer the speakers are to each other the worse the phase induced cancellations of each others output. Spreading them therefore increases the actual SPL. The second factor is psycho-acoustic. The closer the speakers are to each other the more you will perceive them as a single source, the wider apart the more they'll be heard as separate sources. The latter sounds louder, even if the actual SPL at the LP is unchanged.
arnyk's Avatar arnyk 08:35 AM 10-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vailvon View Post

I have a B&W CM9 powered by Anthem MRX 700. I was in a condo before and my set up was a little bit cramp (pic below). When I moved to a bigger place, I noticed the volume is louder compared when I was in a condo, like 5 db louder. The condo had an 8 foot ceiling and the new place is at least twice as high. I also sit further away (about 2 - 3 feet) in the new place.

How could that be, shouldn't it be the other way around?

If you put the same amount of furniture, etc. in a larger room, the larger room will be more reverberant and therefore seem to be louder, all other things being equal.

Not only is the ceiling twice as high (doubling the volume for an equal floor plan), but it appears that the room is at least about half again as wide. If you sit further away, that is probably because the room is longer.

You are now talking maybe 4 times the volume.

The comment about the obviously wider spacing of the speakers creating a more spacious and therefore louder image would also seem to apply.
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 08:39 AM 10-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Is that 5 dB a "measured" 5 dB, or a "perceived" 5 dB? If "measured", how did you measure it?

Is your system properly calibrated? Was it calibrated in your previous space?

Craig

Although I got an SPL meter, I didn't measure it at the old place. But I have DVD's that I really know well and use it to test the system, my volume was set to -30 at the old house. Using that same movie, I can only go -35 and my wife starts yelling at me for being too loud and feel the same way too.

Yes, I use ARC before and re-calibrated it again after moving.
vailvon's Avatar vailvon 08:43 AM 10-20-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If you put the same amount of furniture, etc. in a larger room, the larger room will be more reverberant and therefore seem to be louder, all other things being equal.

Not only is the ceiling twice as high (doubling the volume for an equal floor plan), but it appears that the room is at least about half again as wide. If you sit further away, that is probably because the room is longer.

You are now talking maybe 4 times the volume.

The comment about the obviously wider spacing of the speakers creating a more spacious and therefore louder image would also seem to apply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

From a technical standpoint there are two factors. One, the closer the speakers are to each other the worse the phase induced cancellations of each others output. Spreading them therefore increases the actual SPL. The second factor is psycho-acoustic. The closer the speakers are to each other the more you will perceive them as a single source, the wider apart the more they'll be heard as separate sources. The latter sounds louder, even if the actual SPL at the LP is unchanged.

I also noticed the soundstage seems bigger/wider. I get a little bit of echo/reverb which makes the sound better, to me at least. It's a feeling of listening to 'live music'.
charmerci's Avatar charmerci 07:07 PM 10-20-2013
Is the new place more reflective? (Fewer/no rugs carpets/thinner drapes, fewer bookshelves etc.?)

Plus now you have the sub with the speakers.

To the left in the old place, it looks like there is an open space. Instead of going there, much of the sound in the new place is directed towards you.

Shorter/new cabling? A bit of oxidation on the connections can cause a bit of signal loss.

Maybe a bit of everything.
Tags: Bowers Wilkins Cm9 Floor Standing Speakers
Up
Mobile  Desktop