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post #31 of 47 Old 11-01-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's barely adequate for even that. Computers use 1/8 jacks because it's the only thing that will fit on a laptop.
Until recently: the majority of laptops were easily big enough for 1/4" connectors.

I'm not sure what the point of 1/4" connectors would be given the rest of the audio chain.

I'm speculating: but I'm pretty sure that 1/8" jacks were the norm on computers because they had been the norm on consumer-electronics with headphone jacks (boom boxes, walkmans, etc).

Heck: in 1990 I was listening on a set of Sony studio monitors (great headphones, about $200 back then) that had a 1/8" jack on the end. I used an adapter (included) for my stereo gear.
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They were first used on desktops because said desktops were designed by computer geeks, not audio engineers, and not much more was originally expected of computer sound than to say "Welcome! You've got mail!" Even RCA connections are marginal, their original intent being something that was plugged in and left plugged in for years, if not decades.
I doubt that. Same as above: they were designed using readily available parts for commonly used equipment.

It also shows that you aren't much from the computer world. Long before AOL had those phrases (AOL first became popular just after 1990): you had Amegia doing 4-channel wave-table synthesis and overdubbing of live video, with MIDI connectors, and yes, 1/8" jacks.
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post #32 of 47 Old 11-01-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I don't know how well the 1/8" jack is implemented on macbooks, but I can't believe it would be better for anything than the most casual sound applications.

I have trouble imagining that the 1/8" size is necessarily THE problem. My ODAC uses a 1/8" jack, and it's a better class of DAC than the one you listed. In fact, NwAvGuy, who designed the ODAC and has posted a lot of measurements for external DACs (including the Behringer), has said that the 1/8" jack offers no measurable better audio quality than using RCAs (the ODAC comes with either 3.5mm or RCA outputs).
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

With a high quality sound interface, your signal-to-noise ration goes way up, your dynamic range goes way up, and distortion, hiss, hums, and other unintentional noise goes way way down.

I have no idea about the recording input on Macs, but some of them have good internal DAC implementations compared to Windows machines where people have been unable to hear the difference between an external audio interface in the same measurement class as the Behringer and the Mac. The problem with using the audio out on those Macs is not with the DAC, the 1/8" jack, the SNR, etc. with their output, but it's that the output has been amped by the internal headphone amp and is not a line level output.

So without measurements to support your claim, I wouldn't assume that Macs are necessarily worse than the Behringer when it comes to audio input OR output, especially just because the Behringer has RCAs instead of 1/8" jacks. And this observation comes from someone who is NOT an Apple fan (I don't like their products for other reasons).

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post #33 of 47 Old 11-01-2013, 09:58 AM
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The Behringer interface is proven good and inexpensive, whereas the mac jacks are maybe good, maybe not, who knows. At the price of the Behringer audio interface, there isn't really a reason not to get it. I certainly wouldn't trust any onboard 1/8" jacks enough to do serious work with them.
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post #34 of 47 Old 11-02-2013, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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OK so the quality of the audio in on my Macbook may be debatable.  I guess I could see if I'm happy with the recordings by listening to them on my new setup.  If they sound good to me on the new setup, that's all I can ask for.  If not, I can try out the inexpensive Behringer.

 

I've come across an open box Velodyne Optimum Series 8 for $650.  The driver on the sub is 8" and certainly smaller than all of the recommendations in this thread, but the amp is certainly more at 1200 RMS.  It also looks like there is some auto bass management equipped with the package.  How is this going to fare against the recommended subs in this thread?

 

Thanks again.

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post #35 of 47 Old 11-02-2013, 05:45 AM
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The problem is, if you don't have a clean audio interface to compare the mac to, you might not realize how bad the mac is. But, like I said before, if this is just casual stuff for personal use, maybe that is OK. If you intend to create stuff for any kind of recognition, like you want to distribute your mixes on soundcloud, mixcloud, bandcamp, or wherever, $30 is a small price to pay for a professional sounding mix. As for the the Velodyne, it will be awful, don't bother. Small high excursion driver + lots of power = lots of distortion. Its bass management isn't nearly as good as Audyssey anyway.
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post #36 of 47 Old 11-02-2013, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

... The problem with using the audio out on those Macs is not with the DAC, the 1/8" jack, the SNR, etc. with their output, but it's that the output has been amped by the internal headphone amp and is not a line level output ...

Not necessarily true ... For the last few years on most Mac laptops (and iMac's) the 1/8" output jack is both an analog headphone (amped) port and a digital-audio (i.e. toslink signal) port. Typically if you connect a mini-Toslink 1/8" the OS auto senses this, but if need be you can configure the connection manually. The internal audio processing can be set from 44.1 to 96, as can the individual outputs.

Before AirPlay I always connected my iMac to a Denon receiver via Toslink and the audio was great. Currently, because it's convenient, I use AirPlay (limited to 44.1) to connect to the receiver for general and iTunes music playback. But I still use the Toslink connection for higher quality sources' playback. (Uncompressed 96 recordings sound great!).

FYI Toslink to Mini-Toslink cables/jacks are very inexpensive.
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post #37 of 47 Old 11-02-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Not necessarily true ... For the last few years on most Mac laptops (and iMac's) the 1/8" output jack is both an analog headphone (amped) port and a digital-audio (i.e. toslink signal) port. Typically if you connect a mini-Toslink 1/8" the OS auto senses this, but if need be you can configure the connection manually. The internal audio processing can be set from 44.1 to 96, as can the individual outputs.

Before AirPlay I always connected my iMac to a Denon receiver via Toslink and the audio was great. Currently, because it's convenient, I use AirPlay (limited to 44.1) to connect to the receiver for general and iTunes music playback. But I still use the Toslink connection for higher quality sources' playback. (Uncompressed 96 recordings sound great!).

FYI Toslink to Mini-Toslink cables/jacks are very inexpensive.

Right. I was talking about the analog output. The dual mini Toslink/analog output jacks are also on some PC laptops.

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post #38 of 47 Old 11-03-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

...The dual mini Toslink/analog output jacks are also on some PC laptops.

Good to know!
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post #39 of 47 Old 11-05-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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OK so considering my mind is pretty much made up I'll be getting the Kef Q300s, what would you say is the recommended amp power to get the maximum potential out of these speakers?  I've been shopping Denon, Marantz and Onkyo, each with Audyssey, to help with the ease of my setup. Some of them are 50 watts, and they go up to 125 watts in my price range. Will I be alright going with a 50-95 watt receiver or should I pay a little more and go with something with more juice?

 

Also, I'm able to get a pretty good deal on a SVS PB12-NSD sub, so I'm leaning that way instead of the Rythmik Audio LV12R or Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX which were my top choices until I found a great deal on the SVS PB12-NSD.  Would you pay more for the SVS PB12-NSD than the other 2 mentioned?  OR, if each was offered for the same price, which would you choose?

 

Thanks again for the advice.

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post #40 of 47 Old 11-06-2013, 02:11 AM
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To get the most out of those speakers, I wouldn't worry about amp requirements, I would get something that has good room correction equalization and bass management. 50 watts is probably enough, but it doesn't hurt to have more. As for the subs, you can compare the PB12 and LFM-1 EX directly here. They both have their advantages. The LFM gets louder and digs deeper. It also has different operation modes that can adjust the deep bass response. The PB12 has a perfect flat response and will have less distortion in deep bass. If you never intend to crank it, the extra headroom of the Outlaw won't really help, and if this is only going to be for music, the lesser deep bass distortion of the PB12 and extra extension of the Outlaw won't do you any good either.
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post #41 of 47 Old 11-07-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey, thanks again for everyone that offered me some advice, specifically shadyJ and cel4145.  I finally pulled the trigger and went with:

Denon AVR-2310ci
KEF Q300
SVS PB12-NSD
 
I'm really looking forward to getting this setup and pushing my techno room to the next level.  I hope I made a good choice and will be happy with my selections.
 
Only other future posts I may have in this regard are if I can't figure the right cord and setup config, but a lot of you have touched upon this in this thread.  With this information, I am hoping I will figure it out.
 
Cheers guys,
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post #42 of 47 Old 11-07-2013, 07:57 PM
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Awesome setup! Be sure to come back and post and tell us what you think smile.gif

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post #43 of 47 Old 11-07-2013, 08:59 PM
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Congrats! And +1 hearing what you think.

(I'm currently running Q100's and the SB12-NSD. It's a great combo.)
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post #44 of 47 Old 01-24-2014, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been too preoccupied enjoying the new setup to let you know what I thought.  At first, the sound was such an improvement that it actually took a few weeks to grow on me.  I don't even know if that makes sense.  I was used to listening to garbage sound and when the dankness was placed upon my ears, I didn't know how to handle it.  My room is bumping and it sounds mint.  My vinyl collection is brand new again.  Thank you for all your advice, it is greatly appreciated.

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post #45 of 47 Old 01-24-2014, 10:31 PM
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It definitely makes sense that you would appreciate the sound more after you listened to it some. smile.gif

How's the SVS sub for deep bass with techno? Are you liking it when you crank it up? Getting that good club level bass?

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post #46 of 47 Old 01-24-2014, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

How's the SVS sub for deep bass with techno? Are you liking it when you crank it up? Getting that good club level bass?

Techno doesn't have any deep bass. Even dubstep rarely digs under 40 Hz. It would be nice if it did, but those artists just don't put deep bass in their music.
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post #47 of 47 Old 01-25-2014, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The sub is much different than what I expected.  Not as gratifying as a Funktion One or Void Acoustics setup in a nice club surrounding, but for home usage, I am satisfied and its subtlety has definitely grown on me.  At first I wanted more, but now I realize how low and loud it actually is.  I tinkered around a while with its placement and worked a lot on dampening the room and preventing rattling.  I bought a foam riser that helps.  Now that I've got that somewhat figured out, I can push it more and am quite pleased.  There are some low tones on several records I never knew existed and it's been finding these that has been most rewarding.  It's also shown me some of my records lack depth and only shine in terms of melodic composition.

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