Definitive Technology speaker selection for 7.1 in-cabinet / in ceiling. - AVS Forum
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to get some input on a DT speaker selection for my future den/HT. Not optimal I know but it is what it is. Room is 21x22 with 12' ceilings. Big open arch on the back and one side wall. I cant get any surround speakers on the wall so they will be in the ceiling. There will be a wall to wall bookcase in the front of the room so I want in-wall speakers that are boxed in. I am looking at the UIW RLS II for the front with the center horizontal under the TV. I plan to try to keep all the tweeters at ear level so they will be in a H formation. For the rears im thinking UIW RSS II on the side of the sofa in the ceiling firing at the sofa and the side wall ( V shaped Bipolar design ). For the rears I dont know if I should do another set of the UIW RSS II or a set of the UIW RCS II which is more of a direct radiating setup. They will be about 5' behind the sofa...but 12' up.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:41 PM
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I would say you're on the right track.  I think having the Definitive UIW RLS II for your LCR makes sense - I have the in-ceiling version of these in my showroom and am very-happy with them.  Only comment is it's always preferable for the centre channel to be vertical.  With a room your size I'd consider an acoustically transparent screen & projector to make this happen.  I'd stick with the RSS II in-ceiling for the surrounds and rear channels as the bipolar design will create a greater sense of envelopment.  Your ceiling height is not the greatest for ceiling speakers (your ceiling is fairly high!) but for surrounds I think it should be fine (yes, it would be preferable if they're in the wall a few feet above your head when seated).  Five feet away from the sofa is plenty especially given how high up the rears are. I have two RSS II surrounds in-ceiling in a 10 ft ceiling and am very happy with their performance.  I would also put at least two (preferably four but I know that can get expensive) inwall subwoofers for bass.

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Old 10-29-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chogan77 View Post

I would say you're on the right track.  I think having the Definitive UIW RLS II for your LCR makes sense - I have the in-ceiling version of these in my showroom and am very-happy with them.  Only comment is it's always preferable for the centre channel to be vertical.  With a room your size I'd consider an acoustically transparent screen & projector to make this happen.  I'd stick with the RSS II in-ceiling for the surrounds and rear channels as the bipolar design will create a greater sense of envelopment.  Your ceiling height is not the greatest for ceiling speakers (your ceiling is fairly high!) but for surrounds I think it should be fine (yes, it would be preferable if they're in the wall a few feet above your head when seated).  Five feet away from the sofa is plenty especially given how high up the rears are. I have two RSS II surrounds in-ceiling in a 10 ft ceiling and am very happy with their performance.  I would also put at least two (preferably four but I know that can get expensive) inwall subwoofers for bass.

I'd love to have the center vertical too but there is a tv and I also have a drop down projector screen. The room has a lot of windows so light control is not the best so I need a tv for regular viewing and the 120" screen for movie time.

And for subs no in-walls needed...on the front wall it will be a wall to wall cabinet. The speakers will be mounted to it and I'll have cubbies for some front ported subs like svs pb 13 ultras or something like that...and two for sure.

With the surrounds how would you position the dipoles. On the side of the sofa firing at the sofa and the side walls. And the rear firing at the back of the sofa and the brick archway?

This is the layout. Sofa will start about 12-13' from the wall and be about 5-6 from the brick opening. If the entertainment center is 2' deep the sofa is about 10-11' from it. Room is 21' wide x 21.5' deep. Brick arch is 13'x9' and the side arch is 16x10 I believe.

9613499F-4E56-4C52-8AEE-08E27D8E904D-4590-00000370417FB291_zps02ecfd82.jpg
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:37 PM
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The drawing helps to see what you're dealing with.  The archway and brick arch are not ideal for sound as they introduce the potential for ambient noise and unbalanced first reflections.  Keeping that in mind we have to manage the best we can, like the majority of media rooms.  Also, having a couch is good for sound absorption - and a carpet floor (or rug) would help too.  I think the placement you're talking about for the surrounds makes sense - I positioned mine so one dipole fires at the wall and the other at the couch.  Putting the subwoofers in the cabinet sounds like a good idea, and two should help with seat-to-seat consistency.  Also make sure the LCRs are parallel (i.e. don't put the centre closer to the seat than the left & right), and spread out enough (a rough rule of thumb is the left and right speakers should be as far apart as the seating position, which would be 12-13 feet from your drawing).

 

Regarding the motorized screen, another option is something like the Black Diamond from Screen Innovations.  Works very well with ambient light and descends out of the ceiling to your desired viewing position.  This could eliminate the need for the flat panel TV, although you can still have both and have the flexibility to watch afternoon sporting events etc.

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Old 10-30-2013, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chogan77 View Post

The drawing helps to see what you're dealing with.  The archway and brick arch are not ideal for sound as they introduce the potential for ambient noise and unbalanced first reflections.  Keeping that in mind we have to manage the best we can, like the majority of media rooms.  Also, having a couch is good for sound absorption - and a carpet floor (or rug) would help too.  I think the placement you're talking about for the surrounds makes sense - I positioned mine so one dipole fires at the wall and the other at the couch.  Putting the subwoofers in the cabinet sounds like a good idea, and two should help with seat-to-seat consistency.  Also make sure the LCRs are parallel (i.e. don't put the centre closer to the seat than the left & right), and spread out enough (a rough rule of thumb is the left and right speakers should be as far apart as the seating position, which would be 12-13 feet from your drawing).

Regarding the motorized screen, another option is something like the Black Diamond from Screen Innovations.  Works very well with ambient light and descends out of the ceiling to your desired viewing position.  This could eliminate the need for the flat panel TV, although you can still have both and have the flexibility to watch afternoon sporting events etc.

The floor is wood but as long as my 2 small dogs use the dog door and not everything else in the house then I will try to put a rug down again.

For the surrounds thas what im kinda thinking...that way on all 4 there is one set firing at the couch and one firing away from it. When the book case is built it will be around the speakers and screen/tv so the LCR will be on the same plane and they will be spread out as far as the seating distance about 12' like you said.

The book case is going to be about 10' tall so the screen will be built into the top molding area so when it comes out it comes out from a secret compartment of the book case not the ceiling. But i have seen those black diamond ones...I just cant do a projector 100% of the times in this room.

Where would you put the surrounds at...couple feet away from the couch directly on the side of it and the rears as close to the brick wall as possible? There will be crown molding up there so the would be about a foot away from the brick arch.

And what do you think for sub placement...I know its tricky and probably need some floor crawling and testing...but a equal distance from each other and the wall like 7'?

I am waiting to build this book case until I see what sounds best for the subs...they have me worried in this setup. And once the cabinet is built thats where they gonna stay.

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:23 PM
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Sorry, I was under the weather for a few days.  The book case sounds like a good idea... I'd love to see a picture once it's all complete!  I think the placement of the surrounds makes sense, given the challenges your room presents.  As for the subs, when working with two, my first choice would be to put one at the back right of the room, and one at the front left of the room, or alternatively put one sub on the left wall, and one on the right wall, staggering them so we expand the sweet spot.  In a full-blown custom theatre I recommend four subs (one for each wall), but media room's can be more difficult to achieve optimal placement.

 

In this case I would probably opt to make use of the book case and put one sub between the left and right speaker, but you are right in that the disadvantage is once it's built there's no way to move the subs around to improve bass performance.  I would also make sure I thought through what it was resting on, and put sand or insulation beneath it depending on the way it's installed in the book case.  If you decide you can live with subwoofers in the room this is safer from an audio perspective, as it will allow you to "kick" the subs around the room to find the best placement.  Technically speaking, it's always a good idea to have a formal analysis done to identify the weak spots in the room before you start installing; I have this done for the custom home theatres that I design and build.  That being said, the rules of thumb can work out nicely in most cases.

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Old 11-03-2013, 06:43 AM
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Thanks for the reply and glad your feeling better. I think the subs will be on the floor not resting on a part of the book case. Just have a cubby built out where I can just slide the sub in at floor level if that makes sence. I though about trying out and convincing the wife to have 2 subs for end tables by the sofa. Not sure how that would look or sound...thoughts?

I'll keep updating this thread. May be a while since they start building next week I think.
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