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post #1 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I am working on my first HT setup and spending a month or so on avsforum I have decided to go with JTR.

I wanted 228 for LCR, are 212s really worth almost double the price unless you want to play too loud ?

My HT room is the basement in a townhouse, 22'Lx14'Wx10'H with opening to stairs.

seating position is about 14 ft.

 

Here is what I am planning for :

 

228 x 3 LCR

Rhythmik FV15 HP sub x1 ( planning to add one more in the future)

Wanted to go ported sub as the room has opening to stairs..

Rear - undecided

AVR Denon 4502 ( Purchased from avscience, got a great deal with the dvd player)

Projector - undecided

 

75% music 25% movies.


Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #2 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avgorder View Post

I am working on my first HT setup and spending a month or so on avsforum I have decided to go with JTR.
I wanted 228 for LCR, are 212s really worth almost double the price unless you want to play too loud ?
My HT room is the basement in a townhouse, 22'Lx14'Wx10'H with opening to stairs.
seating position is about 14 ft.

Here is what I am planning for :

228 x 3 LCR
Rhythmik FV15 HP sub x1 ( planning to add one more in the future)
Wanted to go ported sub as the room has opening to stairs..
Rear - undecided
AVR Denon 4502 ( Purchased from avscience, got a great deal with the dvd player)
Projector - undecided

75% music 25% movies.


For me the 212's are worth the extra cost because music is my priority by a large margin. I have owned the 212's for the past year and have had 228's in my room multiple times including 2 weeks in a row with the 228's just recently. For movies I would defy people to be able to tell a difference, I know I couldn't tell a difference.

For music the 228's are incredible, but the 212's are noticeably better but 1000 dollars per speaker better? That's up to the individual. Since I listen to so much music while sitting in the sweet spot in my room - and I always have and always will - it is worth it to me. For many that will not be the case. Do you spend A LOT of time just sitting in the sweet spot listening to music on a regular basis? If not, grab the 228's and don't look back. smile.gif
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post #3 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

For me the 212's are worth the extra cost because music is my priority by a large margin. I have owned the 212's for the past year and have had 228's in my room multiple times including 2 weeks in a row with the 228's just recently. For movies I would defy people to be able to tell a difference, I know I couldn't tell a difference.

For music the 228's are incredible, but the 212's are noticeably better but 1000 dollars per speaker better? That's up to the individual. Since I listen to so much music while sitting in the sweet spot in my room - and I always have and always will - it is worth it to me. For many that will not be the case. Do you spend A LOT of time just sitting in the sweet spot listening to music on a regular basis? If not, grab the 228's and don't look back. smile.gif

Thanks Carp,I wanted to go for 212s but my project is getting too expensive. How about going for 228 for center and 212s for LR.

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #4 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by avgorder View Post

Thanks Carp,I wanted to go for 212s but my project is getting too expensive. How about going for 228 for center and 212s for LR.


That would work great! In fact in my room the best sounding center I have heard was the 228. I had it stacked on top of my 212 and I know the fact that the 228 was up higher off the floor at ear level had a lot to do with how great it sounds and if my 212 was higher I'm sure I'd like it better but still it does speak to how great of a speaker the 228 is.

Do you listen to a lot of 2 channel music? If so, then yes go for the 212's for your LR - if not save some cash and go 228's for LRC.

I also listened to some 5.1 music using 212's as mains and Archaea's 228 as the center and it sounded fantastic.
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post #5 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

That would work great! In fact in my room the best sounding center I have heard was the 228. I had it stacked on top of my 212 and I know the fact that the 228 was up higher off the floor at ear level had a lot to do with how great it sounds and if my 212 was higher I'm sure I'd like it better but still it does speak to how great of a speaker the 228 is.

Do you listen to a lot of 2 channel music? If so, then yes go for the 212's for your LR - if not save some cash and go 228's for LRC.

I also listened to some 5.1 music using 212's as mains and Archaea's 228 as the center and it sounded fantastic.

Most of my music collection is 2-channel stereo, thats why its mostly 2 channel. I need to collect some 5.1 music in the future
Whats your advise for surrounds ?

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #6 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 06:58 PM
 
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Surrounds: The stock answer would be JTR Single8's or Slanted8's. But at $900 each, that can be a bit of a hit when building a system from scratch. A more affordable option are the JBL 8320's at $500 a pair. These are easy to mount, sensitive, 8 Ohm speakers. They have a horn loaded CD, so they will be a reasonable timbre match for JTR's. They are also THX certified, which is no mean achievement.

At half about a quarter the price of JTR surround options, the JBL's just might be the stepping stone that allows your budget to extend to the 212's for the L(C?)R or get that second Rythmik a bit sooner. Both of these aspects are far more important than surrounds IMO. As your multichannel music collection grows over time, that would be the time to consider upgraded surrounds.

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post #7 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by avgorder View Post

Most of my music collection is 2-channel stereo, thats why its mostly 2 channel. I need to collect some 5.1 music in the future
Whats your advise for surrounds ?

I blew my budget for this hobby and then some with the Noesis last year. I have 4 surround speakers all Elemental Designs Cinema 6 speakers. They are nice, and for their size they are pretty dynamic and don't sound bad. However, compared to the JTR single 8's or slanted 8's they can't compete.

If money were no issue I'd go with 228's for surrounds. Even though their dispersion is more focused than some people recommend for surrounds I've heard them used as surrounds and thought they were amazing.
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post #8 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 07:27 PM
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oh yeah, I was going to say that surrounds aren't nearly as important as LRC. If it comes down to having to get a lower model of main speakers to be able to afford a full surround setup vs. spending more on mains now an getting by with lesser surrounds for awhile I'd take the latter 100%.
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post #9 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Surrounds: The stock answer would be JTR Single8's or Slanted8's. But at $900 each, that can be a bit of a hit when building a system from scratch. A more affordable option are the JBL 8320's at $500 a pair. These are easy to mount, sensitive, 8 Ohm speakers. They have a horn loaded CD, so they will be a reasonable timbre match for JTR's. They are also THX certified, which is no mean achievement.

At half the price of JTR surround options, the JBL's just might be the stepping stone that allows your budget to extend to the 212's for the L(C?)R or get that second Rythmik a bit sooner. Both of these aspects are far more important than surrounds IMO. As your multichannel music collection grows over time, that would be the time to consider upgraded surrounds.


I didn't see this post before responding, I agree with this ^
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post #10 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 07:50 PM
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How about 5 228's for a bit more than a pair of 212's?
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post #11 of 70 Old 11-11-2013, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

I blew my budget for this hobby and then some with the Noesis last year. I have 4 surround speakers all Elemental Designs Cinema 6 speakers. They are nice, and for their size they are pretty dynamic and don't sound bad. However, compared to the JTR single 8's or slanted 8's they can't compete.

If money were no issue I'd go with 228's for surrounds. Even though their dispersion is more focused than some people recommend for surrounds I've heard them used as surrounds and thought they were amazing.

I don't want to take the upgrade route, thats why I want to invest a little more than I planned for.
I can stretch myself to go for single 8's but not 228s for surrounds..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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How about 5 228's for a bit more than a pair of 212's?
Thats an interesting advise, it will cost less than 2x212s, 1x228, 2x single 8s..not sure how does that sound..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #13 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 05:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Surrounds: The stock answer would be JTR Single8's or Slanted8's. But at $900 each, that can be a bit of a hit when building a system from scratch. A more affordable option are the JBL 8320's at $500 a pair. These are easy to mount, sensitive, 8 Ohm speakers. They have a horn loaded CD, so they will be a reasonable timbre match for JTR's. They are also THX certified, which is no mean achievement.

At half the price of JTR surround options, the JBL's just might be the stepping stone that allows your budget to extend to the 212's for the L(C?)R or get that second Rythmik a bit sooner. Both of these aspects are far more important than surrounds IMO. As your multichannel music collection grows over time, that would be the time to consider upgraded surrounds.


I didn't see this post before responding, I agree with this ^

Yeah sorry, I sorta jumped in there not realising the Q was directed to you carp.

Of course I completely boxed up the maths... those JBL's are about 1/4 the price of the JTR 8's not half. rolleyes.gif
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post #14 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 05:31 AM
 
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How about 5 228's for a bit more than a pair of 212's?
Thats an interesting advise, it will cost less than 2x212s, 1x228, 2x single 8s..not sure how does that sound..

Given the amount of activity in the surround channels - even on native multichannel music - my personal view is that you would be overspending on surrounds as a proportion of your total speaker/sub budget if you went for 228's all 'round. IOW, the LCR do the bulk of the heavy lifting compared to the surrounds. So, I would go for more modest surrounds (compared to LCR) and in this case put the notional savings towards dual subs.
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post #15 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Given the amount of activity in the surround channels - even on native multichannel music - my personal view is that you would be overspending on surrounds as a proportion of your total speaker/sub budget if you went for 228's all 'round. IOW, the LCR do the bulk of the heavy lifting compared to the surrounds. So, I would go for more modest surrounds (compared to LCR) and in this case put the notional savings towards dual subs.


Your view definitely makes sense..The JBLs are 1/4 the price of single 8s but if I need to upgrade them in the future its going to cost more..


Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #16 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 06:43 AM
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Since you are more music than movie, I would take Carp's words and going with the 212's. Your room is smaller than Carp's, so the 228's might be good enough? Are you planning to go with 9.2 or 11.2 with your 4520?
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Since you are more music than movie, I would take Carp's words and going with the 212's. Your room is smaller than Carp's, so the 228's might be good enough? Are you planning to go with 9.2 or 11.2 with your 4520?


Agree with your point of view, I am tilting more towards 212s because of music. For now I am going with 5.1 and will add more in the future..


Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #18 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 07:05 AM
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With the 212's and dual FV15hps topped with XT32 receiver, you will be in music and movie heaven. Not sure the front heigh and wide in the 9.2/11.2 requires matching speakers. If so, there are lots of cash there for them if you are planning to expand your system.
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post #19 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 08:56 AM
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Lets not forget that many including Carp have said that the 228HT's sound pretty awesome with music too, I can also personally agree with that from owning them myself.

I personally think anyone not willing to commit to spending over 10grand on a speaker setup should just go with the 228HT's. If you can see yourself spending north of 10grand without regretting it then spend the extra money on the 212HT's. Another thing to consider is how long do you plan on staying in your townhouse, if you don't have any foreseeable plans of moving somewhere else I would also go with the 228HT's. You're never really going to be able to take full advantage of the 212HT's and they're ability to plan crystal clear at insane levels while living in a townhouse, well at least not if you want to continue living there.

Considering that for the price of the 212HT's you can get the 228HT's plus the S8's or Slant 8's and still have money left over to go towards a FV15HP. In fact for the same price as an LCR setup of the 212HT's you can get the 228HT's, Slant 8's and a FV15HP.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #20 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 09:00 AM
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Maybe Carp can comment of the difference between the two when playing music and normal listen levels? I would suspect that the lower you listen to music the closer the two would sound. So if you weren't someone who listens louder then say -15 again I would suggest going with the 228HT's.

For me personally my priority was always movies, but I have to admit that I'm starting to listen to a lot more music now down in my theatre room. But even the 228HT's play so loud I don't really listen louder them -20, mostly because I'm 36 and I still want to be able to hear when I'm in my 70's.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #21 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Maybe Carp can comment of the difference between the two when playing music and normal listen levels? I would suspect that the lower you listen to music the closer the two would sound. So if you weren't someone who listens louder then say -15 again I would suggest going with the 228HT's.

For me personally my priority was always movies, but I have to admit that I'm starting to listen to a lot more music now down in my theatre room. But even the 228HT's play so loud I don't really listen louder them -20, mostly because I'm 36 and I still want to be able to hear when I'm in my 70's.


I agree with this. The 228's seem to have a "clarity sweet spot" - what I mean by that is that you get to a volume where if you go any louder the clarity isn't quite as good. With the 212's the clarity stays the same and seems to not have a limit. How loud that sweet spot is for the 228's seems to depend on the music that is being played.

I had the 228's for 2 weeks so for me that is a TON of music listening. At no point was I dying and wishing I had the 212's immediately back in my room. I was happy to get them back and do enjoy them more but the 228's hold their own that's for sure.

Now that I have the 212's back I find that on average the volume is higher - not sure if that's a good thing.. . biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Maybe Carp can comment of the difference between the two when playing music and normal listen levels? I would suspect that the lower you listen to music the closer the two would sound. So if you weren't someone who listens louder then say -15 again I would suggest going with the 228HT's.

For me personally my priority was always movies, but I have to admit that I'm starting to listen to a lot more music now down in my theatre room. But even the 228HT's play so loud I don't really listen louder them -20, mostly because I'm 36 and I still want to be able to hear when I'm in my 70's.

I am not a loud listener by any means and I don't want to bother my neighbors. Not planning to move out of this house in the near future.
It seems 228s will serve me well.

Thanks Carp for your clarfication, it helps bigtime to learn from the current owners of 228s..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #23 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by avgorder View Post

I am not a loud listener by any means and I don't want to bother my neighbors. Not planning to move out of this house in the near future.
It seems 228s will serve me well.

Thanks Carp for your clarfication, it helps bigtime to learn from the current owners of 228s..

Your welcome - yeah I agree that in this case the 228's would be the way to go for you.
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post #24 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 04:17 PM
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Have you given any consideration to going DIY? You could build a really nice LCR using the Seos-24 with a Radian 950PB with Be diaphragm compression driver and a pair of either AE TD15's or save some cash and still get some pretty bad-a** performance and go with a pair of JBL 2226 woofer.
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post #25 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 04:30 PM
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I have 212HT L,R and a 228HT center and it works well. I actually just got everything tuned recently and just cannot believe my ears sometimes with music. You just close your eyes and go off into Noesis land. smile.gif I would suggest this same set up. I like it because I listen in 2 channel with dual PSA Triax's so the 228 is a non factor in that regard. The 228 does shine for dialog in my 5.2 set up for Home Theater. I am inches from order 4 slanted eights for surrounds.
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post #26 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avgorder View Post

I am not a loud listener by any means and I don't want to bother my neighbors. Not planning to move out of this house in the near future.
It seems 228s will serve me well.

Thanks Carp for your clarfication, it helps bigtime to learn from the current owners of 228s..

Well if that's the case, much like Carp did I have to say save your money and get a LCR setup of the 228HT's and grab two Slant 8's for surrounds. No matter how you cut it that will be a pretty awesome setup.

Do you already have one FV15HP?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #27 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Have you given any consideration to going DIY? You could build a really nice LCR using the Seos-24 with a Radian 950PB with Be diaphragm compression driver and a pair of either AE TD15's or save some cash and still get some pretty bad-a** performance and go with a pair of JBL 2226 woofer.

 



I wish I had the time and energy to go for DIY, thanks for your information..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #28 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Well if that's the case, much like Carp did I have to say save your money and get a LCR setup of the 228HT's and grab two Slant 8's for surrounds. No matter how you cut it that will be a pretty awesome setup.



Do you already have one FV15HP?

 



I will definitely take that route.
I don't have the FV15HP yet, I haven't bought any thing yet except the receiver and the bluray player..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #29 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I have 212HT L,R and a 228HT center and it works well. I actually just got everything tuned recently and just cannot believe my ears sometimes with music. You just close your eyes and go off into Noesis land. smile.gif I would suggest this same set up. I like it because I listen in 2 channel with dual PSA Triax's so the 228 is a non factor in that regard. The 228 does shine for dialog in my 5.2 set up for Home Theater. I am inches from order 4 slanted eights for surrounds.

 



I wish I could go that route but it will be stretch on my budget and living in a town house won't allow me to play at reference levels..

Denon 4520 CI
JTR 228 x 3
JTR Slanted 8 x 2
PSA XS30 x 2
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post #30 of 70 Old 11-12-2013, 07:19 PM
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Location: Vancouver B.C.
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So what's your total budget including subs?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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