New 5.1 Home theater setup - Some things are already provided but I need to get a sub-woofer and the three front speakers - AVS Forum
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Am moving into a house that has 5.1 home theater pre-wired. The two rear speakers and the A/V receiver are included: Pair of Speakercraft CRS8 Zero speakers and a Sony DA2800ES. I originally planned on buying/installing (in the pre-wire locations) three Speakercraft AIM8 One speakers and a Speakercraft Vital 10" subwoofer.

Before buying, I started considering the Speakercraft Profile AIM8 Three instead of the AIM8 One's. The price difference between the Three's ($600) and the One's ($265) has me reconsidering whether I'm getting enough sound quality for over double the price.

Now I'm back to asking whether to use the ceiling speaker option at all for the front three speakers.

Couple of questions:
  1. Does anyone have an opinion on whether the Speakercraft Profile AIM8 Three are worth getting versus the Speakercraft AIM8 Three's? The Profile line has some they call WavePlane technology and a flangeless, magnetic speaker cover.
  2. My wife wants the speakers to be as discrete as possible (i.e., not tower or stands). Can anyone point me to a solution of smaller enclosure speakers with a sound-bar for the center speaker?
  3. Is there another choice rather than Speakercraft which is worth looking at?
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:08 AM
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Using ceiling speakers is never the preferred method, and I would really only recommend them for surrounds as a last resort. Can you get away with slim on-wall speakers?

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:43 AM
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I would try to skip in-ceiling for the front 3 speakers - elevator sound is not recommended

Take a look at 3 each Boston P442 l/c/r speakers - new in the box on closeout pricing
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSP442BA/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-P442-LCR-Left-Right-Center-Speaker-Black-Each-NEW/1.html

Look at the Power Sound Audio subwoofer XV15
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15

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Old 11-15-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Realized that I didn't include the Great room size in my original post. It is 18'x20' with 12' ceiling.

I am now planning on using a soundbar. I like the cleanness of mounting underneath the wall mounted TV. The wife is also pleased. The soundbar which I leaning toward is the Definitive Technology Black Mythos Solo Surround Array Speaker (XTR-SSA3). It provides for the L/C/R speakers. I am planning on using the already installed ceiling-mount speakers (Speakercraft CRS8 Zero ) for the rear L/R along with the existing receiver (Sony DA2800ES).

I continue to research subwoofers to find one which would work well with the soundbar and be a good value. Comments/suggestions are welcome.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:37 PM
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Your room is large. You have 4300+ cu ft to pressurize with your subwoofer (and fill with your sound bar).

 

As far as subs go I would consider the ID companies: PSA, SVS, HSU, Outlaw and Rythmik. You will get the most bang for your buck with those companies. 

 

I would suggest looking at:

SVS: PB12-NSD $769 (shipping included)

PSA: XV15  $799 (shipping included)

Outlaw: LFM-1 EX $649 (not sure on shipping)

HSU:  VTF-3 MK4 $699 (plus shipping)

 

As I just shared on another thread the key to having good bass (and therefore a HT worth experiencing movies in)  is having a powerful enough subwoofer to pressurize the room correctly. This is something I just recently learned first hand. I have a room that's about 3250 cu ft (smaller than yours) and I was wondering why I had such pitiful bass (and I was running two 250 watt subs). It was because they could not adequately pressurize the room.

 

I just stepped up to the PSA XV15 and I was blown away at what I had been missing. If I had known about properly pressurizing a room before I would have stepped up in subwoofers a long time ago. I know these might be more than what you planned on spending but I think you you will be happy. 

 

As far as a sound bar goes I think I would avoid that route, especially in a large room. But that's just my opinion.

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Old 11-15-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the subwoofer suggestions. I see that Power Sound Audio sells the XS15 and XV15. One is enclosed and the other ported. Otherwise they are identically spec'ed.

For a room of my size (18'x20' with 12' ceiling), is there a bias to ported or enclosed?

Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surferbum View Post

Thanks for the subwoofer suggestions. I see that Power Sound Audio sells the XS15 and XV15. One is enclosed and the other ported. Otherwise they are identically spec'ed.

For a room of my size (18'x20' with 12' ceiling), is there a bias to ported or enclosed?

Thanks.

Sealed subs are usually more suited for smaller more enclosed rooms while ported subs are usually recommended in larger rooms (such as yours).

 

I would not hesitate to contact Tom at PSA, just give him a quick email and give him your current room set up and see what he recommends. He and Jim are great to work with and they won't try to oversell you. SVS is also great to work with and worth contacting as well. Both give you a bumper to bumper 5 year warranty on their subs and free shipping as well.

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Old 11-15-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

I would not hesitate to contact Tom at PSA, just give him a quick email and give him your current room set up and see what he recommends.

Done.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:23 PM
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Re a sub - you've got a bit of a pickle with the combination of a big room and using a sound bar. On the one hand you need a powerful sub to fill (pressurize) the room, on the other hand you need a very accurate sub to have a clean crossover to your soundbar speakers (80hz is the typical/recommended crossover, but a 120hz is needed for that soundbar).

+1 the comments made by hopinator re pressurizing the room. A sub like the PSA XV-15 would be great at pressurizing the room. But a sub like the SVS PB12 might give you a smoother transition on a higher crossover.

Two options come to mind ...

Try a soundbar that will easily handle an 80hz crossover? The BIC FH56-BAR will do that (http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=2&type=19&spkrID=116). Or HTD has a flat panel that reaches deeper than most flat panels (probably because it isn't really flat). In this case you would buy three, one each for LCR. They can be mounted horizontally or vertically - LR vertical with C horizontal, or all three horizontal for WAF in which case it has the look of a soundbar. http://www.htd.com/Products/flat-panel-speakers/flat-panel-speaker

Consider dual subs? Two of the PSA XV-15 or SVS PB12 would work. Or, a less expensive option might be two SVS PB1000's. (Dual subs isn't for "more" bass, but to smooth/even out the bass and crossover throughout the room.)
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Consider dual subs? Two of the PSA XV-15 or SVS PB12 would work. Or, a less expensive option might be two SVS PB1000's. (Dual subs isn't for "more" bass, but to smooth/even out the bass and crossover throughout the room.)

^^ Good advice here. I was going to suggest it but I felt I had already pushed the budget with the suggestion of the subs I made, I didn't want to send the OP into cardiac arrest with the suggestion of buying two of them, but with the size of his room he most likely will need them. 

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Old 11-16-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

^^ Good advice here. I was going to suggest it but I felt I had already pushed the budget with the suggestion of the subs I made, I didn't want to send the OP into cardiac arrest with the suggestion of buying two of them, but with the size of his room he most likely will need them. 

+1 The other option is a different soundbar with a single XV-15 (from an output standpoint it's hard to beat at that price point).

FWIW, both the speaker options I mentioned are actually less expensive than the DT Mythos bar, and to my ears sound better. To be more specific, besides accommodating an 80hz crossover both have better dynamics - a big plus for HT in my experience. And the BIC will play quite a bit louder than the other two, which could be a bonus in your room.
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Old 11-16-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Try a soundbar that will easily handle an 80hz crossover? The BIC FH56-BAR will do that (http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.php?brand=2&type=19&spkrID=116).

I've researched the BIC FH56-Bar on this forum and other reviews. Since you mentioned it I hope you can answer a question about it. It has the capability for 5 channel but I only want L/C/R. Do I just only wire L/C/R and will the other 2 channels/speakers function as additional L and R channels? I can't seem to locate any pdf files or instructions for this unit. The company seems to be very light on details about their products. Does anyone have any setup instructions or manual?
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:58 PM
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I heard the FH56-Bar used as an LCR and was impressed - unfortunately I didn't check the details you're asking about. What I can offer ... with the exception of the BIC and HTD systems I mentioned, every other soundbar I've heard sounded like a satellite speaker system.

You have good questions though ... now I'm curious and will look into it wink.gif
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Old 11-17-2013, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surferbum View Post

The company seems to be very light on details about their products. Does anyone have any setup instructions or manual?

The Bic has 5 seperate hook-ups on the back - you can hook up 3 or 5 channels

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Old 11-17-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The Bic has 5 seperate hook-ups on the back - you can hook up 3 or 5 channels

My question was if you only wire to the L/C/R inputs (3 in total), what happens? What about the other two inputs which are unconnected? No one seems to know. Do the speakers connected to the two un-hooked up inputs just do nothing?
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surferbum View Post

My question was if you only wire to the L/C/R inputs (3 in total), what happens? What about the other two inputs which are unconnected? No one seems to know. Do the speakers connected to the two un-hooked up inputs just do nothing?
Right, the other 2 will be silent

The 3 front will still work - and the other two will not work, because there is no connection
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1355998/the-official-bic-america-formula-fh56-bar-owners-thread#post_21341774

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The 3 front will still work - and the other two will not work, because there is no connection
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1355998/the-official-bic-america-formula-fh56-bar-owners-thread#post_21341774

My Bad - it seems that I was wrong - the sides will still work
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1355998/the-official-bic-america-formula-fh56-bar-owners-thread/30#post_21364892

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Old 11-17-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

My Bad - it seems that I was wrong - the sides will still work
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1355998/the-official-bic-america-formula-fh56-bar-owners-thread/30#post_21364892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid6 View Post

Make sure the side speakers aren't covered by the cabinet because even if you use it for an LCR they are utilized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid6 View Post

Here's the breakdown:
  • Center - Center tweeter and both woofers
  • Left - Left woofer, left tweeter and left side speaker
  • Right - Right woofer, right tweeter and right side speaker
  • Surround Left - Left side speaker
  • Surround Right - Right side speaker
So like I figured if you use this as just a LCR setup then all speakers are still utilized.

The BIC website says:
Quote:
Drivers:
  • (2) 6 1/2" injection molded woofers
  • (3) 6 1/2" mid/high frequency horns
  • (2) 4 1/4" side mounted surrounds

I assume Droid6 calls the speaker
Quote:
tweeter
while BIC refers to the speaker as
Quote:
6 1/2" mid/high frequency horns
And Droid6 calls the speaker a
Quote:
side speaker
what BIC calls side
Quote:
mounted surround

It is pretty confusing. I guess I'll have to mail BIC to find out if the (2) 4 1/4" side mounted surrounds make any noise if you are using the Formula FH56-BAR as a L/C/R system.
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:17 PM
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I called my friend with the FH56-Bar and he confirmed the following ... The unit auto senses if you've connected to three or five speaker plugs on the back, and makes use of all the speakers for both configurations (3&5).

Note, he said when he connected to four plugs on the back the unit wouldn't output anything. What can I say, he's that kind of guy wink.gif
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

I called my friend with the FH56-Bar and he confirmed the following ... The unit auto senses if you've connected to three or five speaker plugs on the back, and makes use of all the speakers for both configurations (3&5).

Note, he said when he connected to four plugs on the back the unit wouldn't output anything. What can I say, he's that kind of guy wink.gif

My setup is looking like a BIC Formula FH56-BAR and Power Sound Audio XV15 subwoofer. Use existing rear L/R ceiling speakers and a Sony DA2800ES AVR.

FYI:
Quote:
With >4000 cu-ft the XV15 is definitely the way to go here(versus the xs15).

The XV15 is almost 50% larger and "ported". These factors combine to give the XV15 approximately 50-65% more output capability(about 2.5 to 4dB) which will be a big advantage in this room environment.

Tom Vodhanel
Power Sound Audio
Power Up!
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Old 11-17-2013, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surferbum View Post

It is pretty confusing. I guess I'll have to mail BIC to find out if the (2) 4 1/4" side mounted surrounds make any noise if you are using the Formula FH56-BAR as a L/C/R system.

My setup is looking like a BIC Formula FH56-BAR and Power Sound Audio XV15 subwoofer.
I am not a fan of virtual sound processing - if I was to ever by a soundbar, I would prefer it to be
more pure, with the front l/c/r drivers firing from the front with at least 3 woofers and 3 tweeters.

Do not know where you plan to buy it - however, a good deal at Parts Express
http://www.parts-express.com/bic-formula-fh56-bar-speaker-bar-system--303-442

Hope it works out for you.

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