floor standing speakers no sub on a budget - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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If you had less than $400 to spend on just one set of floor standing speakers, no sub, what would you buy.  They will be plugged into a Marantz NR 1501 receiver.  I will be using it to watch movies (so understanding dialog is important), and listening to music (streaming mp3's).  I just want 1 set, so they will have to be good all around including the bass.

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post #2 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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HTD Level Two Towers
Infinity Primus P363
Polk RTi8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RTi8-BLACK-Towers-Polk-Audio-NEW-PAIR-/360731799996?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53fd4a71bc)

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post #3 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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The other 2 I was looking at are:  

 

Fluance ES1 Higher Fidelity Two-way Floorstanding Pillar Speaker

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fluance-ES1-Fidelity-Floorstanding-Speakers/dp/B00064JX4E

 

and Polk Audio TSi500 Floorstanding Speaker (Single, Cherry) (Old Version)

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018QNYPI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2L77EE7U53NWQ

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

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post #5 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 02:26 PM
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There's only one of the TSi500's, according to Amazon.

I bought a pair of Polk RTi8's for $320 or $340 with tax included, at a local Fry's. I love them, have them going off an AVR with no sub on a 2.0 setup and it rattles the walls on movies, though I use them mostly for music.

At a similar price point, I'd be inclined to go with a pair of Polk Monitor 70's on sale
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post #6 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I've narrowed it down to:

 

Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Floorstanding Speakers Pair, only $129

 

Polk Audio Monitor70 Series II Floorstanding Loudspeaker (Black) Each $149

 

Infinity Primus P253BK Two-way Floorstanding Loudspeaker Each $149

 

Mordaunt-Short Carnival 6 Floorstanding Speakers in Black(Pair) $279

 

The HTD Level Two Towers are $400/pair, might be a bit high.

 

If I know this will be just a 2 speaker system with no sub, I wonder which has the greatest range?  

 

Thanks for all the suggestions.

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post #7 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I found another one at accesories4less:  CAMBRIDGE AUDIO S70 5" 3-way Floorstanding Speakers for $129, free shipping.

 

I've dropped the Pioneer off the list.  From the reviews, it probably doesn't have enough bass without a sub.  

 

Newegg has Polk Audio Monitor60 series 2 for $99 each.  Now, I'm really confused.  I'll have to read the reviews of the two (Monitor60 and Monitor70) to figure out the differences.

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post #8 of 32 Old 11-15-2013, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycle View Post

I've dropped the Pioneer off the list.  From the reviews, it probably doesn't have enough bass without a sub.  
I'll be able to comment on this probably in a week. I'm hooking up a 5.0 system next weekend if everything gets here this coming week using the next-gen Pioneer FS52, C22, and B22 surrounds. Including the wall mounts for the surrounds + blu-tack, I paid almost your budget exactly (maybe less than $5 over) catching the speakers on sale. Those with a Fry's local could catch them on sale for less than I paid I hear.

If you're watching movies, I'm not sure I'd sacrifice surround sound just for higher priced / MAYBE better front speakers. To me, it adds too much. The movie "The Ghost and the Darkness" I didn't even hardly care for until I happened to watch it again one day on a surround system. Whole new experience. If dialog is important to you, I wouldn't be skipping at least a center channel.

It looks like you could get the previous generation all 5 speakers for around $320 total right now.

Hell, if you wanted, you could even add a pioneer sw-8-k subwoofer for $67 at the moment. Or better, a Polk Audio PSW10 for $90.

I'm going to see if I can survive without the sub or not and if so wait till in a more neighbor friendly location to add one that costs more than the rest of my speakers put together. The nice thing about speakers is if you don't abuse them, they'll last you 20 years.

What size room you putting this in?
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post #9 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 12:22 AM
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Why not buy used? Your local Craigs List ads might have something for $300 you can't touch for $2000 or more when it comes to buying sound quality. Old speakers often were sold with no sub in mind because subs barely existed so they usually had great bass response. Ever heard the sound quality of some of those old ribbon tweeters?

I sold a pair of Infinity IL40 Interludes locally on Craigs List. Not worth shipping for anyone on ebay. The guy came and listened to them - smiled and handed me my asking price. That guy knew what sounds good. I should have kept the speakers - but I'll be keeping what I have now. I've quit chasing my tail.

Well - for a while.

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post #10 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycle View Post

Infinity Primus P253BK Two-way Floorstanding Loudspeaker Each $149
I'm having trouble understanding this rather than the 363. You've already listed dialog as important, but are giving up the midrange when the 363 is within your budget.
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post #11 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The room is 20 wide x 25 long, but I really want just 1 set of speakers.  The kids would knock over all those speakers and I don't want to install anything in the vaulted 10 foot high ceiling.  I might be willing to do 2 speakers at most, maybe 2 floor standing and a center I can put in the entertainment center.  Maybe I can find a definitive technology set with integrated sub for my price range, since I don't want a separate sub?  Not sure, I'll do some research on floor standing speakers with integrated subs. 

 

I have looked at used, but I can't find anything yet on my local craigslist.  I'm leery of ebay.  

 

JerryLove:  So the Infinity P363 is better.  Just wanted to make sure, since the P253's were $50 cheaper.  Thanks for the advice.  I'm just not sure if the bass will be adequate.   

 

Back to doing more research.  Thanks for all the suggestions so far. 

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post #12 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 11:11 AM
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I'm sure someone else will chime in here on this, but that's a pretty big room especially with a 10' ceiling....I mean, that's a 5000 cubic foot room! And you say "vaulted" 10'...so I'm assuming it's 10' and then vaulted even more above that? eek.gif

I think you're about to have people tell you that with that size room and if bass is really important to you, you're eventually going to need 2 larger, powerful subwoofers at least as the sound of even ONE subwoofer would be swallowed in that room. No subwoofer in that size room and "good bass" are simply incompatible IMHO.

I take it wall mounting 2 surrounds is not an option? I understand the point about kids and stands, but they really shouldn't knock speakers out of a wall mount. Trying to cover that much area and be satisfied with a 2 speaker setup I don't think is realistic, at least it wouldn't be for me, especially when it comes to movies.
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post #13 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumrtym View Post

I'm sure someone else will chime in here on this, but that's a pretty big room especially with a 10' ceiling....I mean, that's a 5000 cubic foot room! And you say "vaulted" 10'...so I'm assuming it's 10' and then vaulted even more above that? eek.gif
One can hear speakers outdoors, where the walls and ceiling are (basically) infinitely far away. The volume is determined by listening distance, not room dimensions.
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I think you're about to have people tell you that with that size room and if bass is really important to you, you're eventually going to need 2 larger, powerful subwoofers at least as the sound of even ONE subwoofer would be swallowed in that room. No subwoofer in that size room and "good bass" are simply incompatible IMHO.
Not true (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/orbit-shifter/). However, multiple subs are generally preferred for other reasons.
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I take it wall mounting 2 surrounds is not an option? I understand the point about kids and stands, but they really shouldn't knock speakers out of a wall mount. Trying to cover that much area and be satisfied with a 2 speaker setup I don't think is realistic, at least it wouldn't be for me, especially when it comes to movies.
Surrounds do nothing to change how loud the front soundstage is. Speakers which repeat the front channels are called "re-enforcement speakers", and are used in extremely large venues (like pavilions)
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post #14 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryLove View Post

One can hear speakers outdoors, where the walls and ceiling are (basically) infinitely far away. The volume is determined by listening distance, not room dimensions.
My understanding and is oft quoted on these forums when people ask about what sub to get is that room size DOES make a difference into what sub you want, not just based on volume. It has as much to do with the size of the room and how much air the suibwoofer moves. People aren't asking "where are you sitting", but "how big is your room in volume". Again, I'm a novice, but that's everything I've seen posted lately over and over with no one correcting it.

Of course, you're correct in that sitting the subwoofer next to the listening position does of course make a difference as well.
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Not true (http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/orbit-shifter/). However, multiple subs are generally preferred for other reasons.
I was referring to more common subwoofer sizes people typically buy. Which is why most go with 2 smaller, besides the obvious benefit of smoothing out the bass response and generally being better than one large in terms of output.
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Surrounds do nothing to change how loud the front soundstage is. Speakers which repeat the front channels are called "re-enforcement speakers", and are used in extremely large venues (like pavilions)
I didn't say anything about surrounds and the front soundstage. I stand by the fact using surrounds will make a noticeable and large improvement for MOVIES, something the OP said was one of the primary uses of the speakers. Few would deny it's a much more enveloping experience that brings the movies more to life. If he had said this was for a music system, only, I wouldn't have even mentioned surrounds.
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post #15 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 03:22 PM
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The P363's are on sale at fry's for $214 a pair. 

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post #16 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumrtym View Post

My understanding and is oft quoted on these forums when people ask about what sub to get is that room size DOES make a difference into what sub you want, not just based on volume. It has as much to do with the size of the room and how much air the suibwoofer moves. People aren't asking "where are you sitting", but "how big is your room in volume". Again, I'm a novice, but that's everything I've seen posted lately over and over with no one correcting it.
There are room interactions for any speaker. Standing wave lengths, room nulls, etc.

People are wrong. Proof: Subs work outside.
Quote:
I didn't say anything about surrounds and the front soundstage. I stand by the fact using surrounds will make a noticeable and large improvement for MOVIES, something the OP said was one of the primary uses of the speakers. Few would deny it's a much more enveloping experience that brings the movies more to life. If he had said this was for a music system, only, I wouldn't have even mentioned surrounds.
It seems that you did. Perhaps I simply misread you. Can you explain:

"Trying to cover that much area and be satisfied with a 2 speaker setup I don't think is realistic"

What does "trying to cover that much area" have to do with whether you run surrounds or not for movies?
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post #17 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TierAngst View Post
 

The P363's are on sale at fry's for $214 a pair. 

I checked online and they are $329.99 single.  Maybe you meant in store?  I don't have a Fry's nearby, but that would have been a great deal.  

 

The other argument about 2 subs, extra speakers, and wall mounted, etc is a mute point.  My wife will never agree with me about messing with all that tech stuff, spending the extra money on more speakers.  It has to be a 2 or 3 speaker system, but my budget is somewhat flexible.

 

Thanks for the posts/advice so far.  Let me know if you hear of any great deals.  It's too bad that one at Fry's didn't work out, those speakers seem to have pretty good reviews from what I've read.

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post #18 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 07:14 PM
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Yeah, in store only. No fry's near me either or I'd have a pair right now.
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post #19 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycle View Post

The other argument about 2 subs, extra speakers, and wall mounted, etc is a mute point.  My wife will never agree with me about messing with all that tech stuff, spending the extra money on more speakers.  It has to be a 2 or 3 speaker system, but my budget is somewhat flexible.
I'll let you know how the bass is after I'm set up on the Pioneer FS52, but my room size is less than half of yours, so take it for what it's worth. Of course, if I say "I decided I HAVE to have a subwoofer now" you'll know they definitely won't work. I picked mine up recently for $90 ea + tax.

I'll also let you know if I see a deal on a new wife. j/k tongue.gif
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post #20 of 32 Old 11-16-2013, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumrtym View Post

I'll let you know how the bass is after I'm set up on the Pioneer FS52, but my room size is less than half of yours, so take it for what it's worth. Of course, if I say "I decided I HAVE to have a subwoofer now" you'll know they definitely won't work. I picked mine up recently for $90 ea + tax.

awesome $90!!!?? where? i've been chasing these for sale prices and can't find less than $124.

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post #21 of 32 Old 11-17-2013, 02:00 PM
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Any thoughts on BIC PL-76 vs the P363's?

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post #22 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 12:28 AM
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awesome $90!!!?? where? i've been chasing these for sale prices and can't find less than $124.
Microcenter. My local one still has ONE left after I grabbed two (still does weeks later). rolleyes.gif They don't cross ship and last time I looked, the store 5 hours away had ONE also. tongue.gif Fry's, which I don't have locally, has had them off and on for $77 ea in store I guess as well. Microcenter was/is selling out their entire stock of them, however.
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post #23 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumrtym View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

awesome $90!!!?? where? i've been chasing these for sale prices and can't find less than $124.
Microcenter. My local one still has ONE left after I grabbed two (still does weeks later). rolleyes.gif They don't cross ship and last time I looked, the store 5 hours away had ONE also. tongue.gif Fry's, which I don't have locally, has had them off and on for $77 ea in store I guess as well. Microcenter was/is selling out their entire stock of them, however.

no microcenter near me anyway! thanks, guess i'll just keep checking the usual places for sales smile.gif

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post #24 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

no microcenter near me anyway! thanks, guess i'll just keep checking the usual places for sales smile.gif

I got Best Buy to match that price, although yours may not if MC is not in your area. Worth a try.
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post #25 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TierAngst View Post

Any thoughts on BIC PL-76 vs the P363's?

Not apples to apples.

You can generally get P363s for about half Bics asking price for the PL-76 if I'm reading the pricing right. Look at Amazon or Frys for good prices on P363s in the $100 to $200 range.

In contrast the P363 can probably crank more bass because it has twice as many woofers of about the same size.

The P363s have independent technical reviews that are pretty lauditory. I can't find anything comparable on the Bics.

The Bics seem to use horn tweeters and probably provide a more focused hot sound, while the Infinities use domes and cones which might be more prone to give a smoother more laid back sound.

The Bics are probably more like Klipsches, while the Infinities are more like Polks.

Oh, and I have a pair of 363s that I like very much.
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post #26 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 06:04 AM
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You are looking at speakers that more than likely will not be fully satisfying in the end. Look for a used pair of speakers such as the Klipsch Forte's or Chorus. they are fairly full range, will fill your room with great bass and great clarity and will do the job without much compromise as well. They are found on the used market such as craigslist for between 400 & 500 dollars usually.
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post #27 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 06:28 AM
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The Bic's are $270 (shipped) a pair vs fry's price which is currently unattainable since I'm nowhere near one. Also from what I've been reading (which there isn't near as much info on) the Bic's don't have the same type of horn tweeter and are far smoother than the Klipsch. What I was curious about is the frequency response, 30hz vs 38hz. I'm not real sure how much that affects actual bass output though. 

 

I've been watching craigslist for months that fits the bill here that's also in my price range.

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post #28 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 09:56 AM
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The JBL ES80's are an older model you can get pretty cheap now. Frequency response says they get down to 45hz, so you could get by without a sub.

$200 a piece on JBL's website but Fry's had them on sale online for $144 a piece last week. Might want to keep checking back.
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post #29 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 10:09 AM
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BIC Venturi DV-84 has some really good bass and will cost you about $300 for the pair. They are rated down to 27hz. You can add a center for another $100. I was really impressed with the way these sound (my brother has a pair).

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post #30 of 32 Old 11-18-2013, 10:36 AM
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Actually, just found a pair of Polk RTiA5's on craigslist. Would those work? If so, is $300 good for them? They come with some surrounds but I'm not really interested in them and would just resell if possible.

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