5.1 Speaker selections: 5 bookshelfs VS. 2 towers, 3 bookshelfs? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 200 Old 11-19-2013, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
So.... Here's a general question related to 5.1 surround sound setup.


How important is it, in terms of overall sound-quality, to go with 2 towers as your front channels, vs 2 bookshelf speakers? Traditionally, a system has 2 towers, a center channel, and 2 bookshelfs as surrounds, plus a sub. We all know this.

My question is... what if a person went with 5 bookshelfs, or 4 bookshelfs and a center, plus a sub? In this case, would you need a 2nd subwoofer? Is there any chance the system would sound as good as a system with tower speakers up front?


The only real reason I'm asking this is in the interest of cost-savings.
Landmonster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 200 Old 11-19-2013, 10:05 PM
Member
 
sandydankness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 150
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 33

You can easily go with 4 bookshelves and a center with a sub.  The sub puts out the bass below wherever you set the crossover, so you don't need speakers that go down to 30 hz when the sub is doing all the work below 80.  I think for base you would be much better off investing in a quality subwoofer over tower speakers.

sandydankness is offline  
post #3 of 200 Old 11-19-2013, 10:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sdg4vfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 1,352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

...Traditionally, a system has 2 towers, a center channel, and 2 bookshelfs as surrounds, plus a sub. We all know this...

Probably not so much anymore for Home-Theater/surround oriented listening.

The ideal (if it fits in your space) is three identical speakers LCR. Those with a projector and acoustically transparent screen have the option of either three bookshelf speakers or three towers up front. Folks like me, with a TV, end up using three identical bookshelf speakers across the front.

The most common setup is probably bookshelf speakers for LR mains with a dedicated horizontal center speaker. Worth noting that dedicated horizontal centers were created to accommodate space limitations in home systems, not for better sound. But the reality of most living rooms makes this the most common option.

Different story for those who's focus is listening to music. Many of them have a preference for listening to stereo recordings without a sub, and towers as LR mains have a lot to offer in that context. But, I would guess this is not the biggest demographic anymore (at least in the forums and among people I know). An even smaller demographic ... super serious audiophiles who have matching 5.1 speaker setups for HT/surround and a second, separate set of LR mains (usually towers) just for stereo music listening wink.gif

There are several threads that discuss bookshelf-with-sub vs tower, especially from a bang-for-the-buck standpoint.

Good luck!
sdg4vfx is offline  
post #4 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
What are some really kick-ass bookshelf speakers that I should be looking at?

I need to take measurements of my listening room, but it's a fairly large family living room.



I heard good things about:
KEF R300
KEF Ls50

Would either of these be too small for a normal living room?
Landmonster is offline  
post #5 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 02:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

What are some really kick-ass bookshelf speakers that I should be looking at?

These are the most kick-ass bookshelf speakers I know of. biggrin.gif




Other very good options are π Speakers One π and Gedlee Harper.
Kini62 likes this.
GIEGAR is offline  
post #6 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 02:55 AM
Advanced Member
 
Phrehdd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 107
Are you sure you are asking the right question?

There are so many factors that come into play in determining best speaker set up per a room, per other equipment used and furniture along with personal tastes.

As well, there are many bookshelf style speakers that sound better than some floor speakers (towers) and visa versa.


Here is my situation so you get an idea

5 AON 3 speakers by Goldenear made for an outstanding experience for watching movies.

Later I got two Triton 7 Goldenear (tower) speakers and a dedicated center - this gave as robust a system that was also providing an outstanding experience though it sounds a bit different. Also both play music very well and SACD truly oustanding.


All of the above speakers have gotten great praise and there are some differences. It also depends on if your AVR has some sort of correction tools and how well they work. Anthem has ARC which is well noted for excellent adjustment of output while Pioneer has its own tool and Yamaha as well. Many go with Audyssy EQ in its various forms/levels.

A couple of friends have systems that are two to three times more expensive than my own. One sounds superior and the other well...buying over priced is just that..not a real bang for the buck and not the "experience" one would hope for.
Phrehdd is offline  
post #7 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 10:44 AM
 
PlexMulti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

So.... Here's a general question related to 5.1 surround sound setup.


How important is it, in terms of overall sound-quality, to go with 2 towers as your front channels, vs 2 bookshelf speakers? Traditionally, a system has 2 towers, a center channel, and 2 bookshelfs as surrounds, plus a sub. We all know this.

My question is... what if a person went with 5 bookshelfs, or 4 bookshelfs and a center, plus a sub? In this case, would you need a 2nd subwoofer? Is there any chance the system would sound as good as a system with tower speakers up front?


The only real reason I'm asking this is in the interest of cost-savings.

Some perspective....

1: Room size and listening volumes matter in this question. In terms of sound quality, when selected properly based on these criteria a tower and a bookshelf from the same speaker line (KEF R series, for example) will sound virtually the same(ish) when it comes to multi-channel movies. Where you will notice quality differences will be in instances where the bookshelves are being asked to play loudly in a room that is too big for them. Putting a tower in a room too small isn't usually a problem as long as you can respect the boundary lines of the room and your receiver/processor can EQ them properly. It's a waste, IMO to put towers with 8" drivers in smaller areas. Will they work? Absolutely. But so could different compliments of 6 1/2" or 5 1/4" drivers in either towers or bookshelves.

2: Traditionally doesn't really exist any more. Phantom Centers, in-wall speakers, multiple subs, etc. etc. means that multi-channel audio comes in as many flavors and looks as you can dream up!

3: In practical terms. the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. subwoofer is not there to add more bass or compliment towers or bookshelves in any way shape or form (as long as the speaker system can play down to 80hz cleanly for the given room size). This is according to Dolby AC3 decoding white papers in the sections regarding the .1 channel, in-room real-world bass results, and placement of the mains vs. room interaction of low frequencies below 80hz. Your processor should be cutting the speaker system off at 80hz and putting all of the bass under that to the subwoofer(s). REMEMBER THIS when thinking FULL RANGE tower vs. bookshelf.... the tower should NEVER see full range in multi-channel if you have a sub(s). If it does, then you're doing it wrong according to the people who invented the format.

4th: What the additional subs ARE there to do is fix what is the most common demon in "bad" rooms and that is low level bass response. In fact, even in really great rooms low level bass can be an issue without either serious physical acoustical treatments and/or multiple subwoofers. A 20hz bass signal is (basically) 56 FEET long. That is substantial. The 2nd subwoofer is there to work in tandem with it's mate to provide even bass throughout a room while counteracting the long, violent wavelengths of deep bass. If you could have 10 subs in a room, even better - NOT just for sheer force or loudness, but for bass quality. The more the merrier. However, most people are not able/willing to have a room designed like this (understandably so) and get by with 2 to 4.

Think in terms of practicality.

- What size drivers does your room need for it's size and how loud you are going to get your system?
- Where is there room to put the correct size speakers where they will look and perform their best? Is this positioning possible?
- Tonally, what type of sound or speaker do you prefer? What is the cost difference between monitors on stands and floor standing speakers? Is it worth it to get the same monitor in tower form if it just comes down to aesthetics? (My personal opinion is typically YES.)
- Where will the subwoofer go? Can you afford two after buying the correct mains?
- Can you afford the proper amplification for your speakers of choice? Makes no sense to buy killer speakers if you're going to not give them enough headroom to perform.

Hope this helps you in your research!
PlexMulti is offline  
post #8 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

So.... Here's a general question related to 5.1 surround sound setup.


How important is it, in terms of overall sound-quality, to go with 2 towers as your front channels, vs 2 bookshelf speakers? Traditionally, a system has 2 towers, a center channel, and 2 bookshelfs as surrounds, plus a sub. We all know this.

My question is... what if a person went with 5 bookshelfs, or 4 bookshelfs and a center, plus a sub? In this case, would you need a 2nd subwoofer? Is there any chance the system would sound as good as a system with tower speakers up front?


The only real reason I'm asking this is in the interest of cost-savings.

I believe that bookshelf speakers + subs will sound just as good as towers + subs. That is my experience.

I've compared [Revel Salon2/802D2/Orion3 + Subs] vs. [KEF 201/2 + Subs].

And when you go with bookshelf, you should have more budget for a second sub, which will improve bass response in your room. Definitely get dual subs. wink.gif

But many people still believe that towers sound better than bookshelf, although I will respectfully disagree. wink.gif
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #9 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:10 AM
 
PlexMulti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I utterly believe that bookshelf speakers + subs will sound just as good as towers + subs. That is my experience.

I've compared [Revel Salon2/802D2/Orion3 + Subs] vs. [KEF 201/2 + Subs].

And when you go with bookshelf, you should have more budget for a second sub, which will improve bass response in your room. Definitely get dual subs. wink.gif

When designing systems, the way I do it, it 100% depends on the room size, volume levels, and what the manufacturer of choice makes available. Atlantic Technology, for example, technically only has book shelf models. But, their THX Ultra2 speakers are very large for "book shelf" use and are virtually never used in this capacity. It is more of an in-cabinet speaker or is set on their provided stands (which, basically make them into towers). Triad and a lot of other companies do this as well. KEF, on the other hand, really only has traditional bookshelves and centers... or towers.

As usually, there are a lot of variables in this type of thing. What defines a bookshelf speaker? What defines a tower? What defines a large monitor/in-cabinet? Etc.
PlexMulti is offline  
post #10 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

it 100% depends on the room size, volume levels, and what the manufacturer of choice makes. Atlantic Technology, for example, technically only has book shelf models. But, their THX Ultra2 speakers are very large for "book shelf" use and are virtually never used in this capacity. It is more of an in-cabinet speaker or is set on their provided stands (which, basically make them into towers). Triad and a lot of other companies do this as well. KEF, on the other hand, really only has traditional bookshelves and centers... or towers.

As usually, there are a lot of variables in this type of thing. What is a bookshelf speaker? What is a tower? What is a large monitor? Etc.

Very true, bro. biggrin.gif
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #11 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mo949's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 584
if you want simple, easy to run, excellent sounding speakers I suggest you start with high sensitivity klipsch bookshelves. They have incredible value in a typicaly HT setup. Then splurge ($1k) on a good sub with the savings.

if you are a music audiophile though, then disregard and continue on your quest since you are already in the rabbit hole at that point biggrin.gif
mo949 is offline  
post #12 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

What are some really kick-ass bookshelf speakers that I should be looking at?

I need to take measurements of my listening room, but it's a fairly large family living room.



I heard good things about:
KEF R300
KEF Ls50

Would either of these be too small for a normal living room?

I think [R300 x 5] + [Subs x 2] will be just peachy for a normal 20' x 20' x 10' living room. wink.gif

Also [Revel M106 x 5] + [Subs x 2] smile.gif

Or [RBH SX-61 x 5] + [RBH SX-1010N x 3]. biggrin.gif
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #13 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

Some perspective....

1: Room size and listening volumes matter in this question. In terms of sound quality, when selected properly based on these criteria a tower and a bookshelf from the same speaker line (KEF R series, for example) will sound virtually the same(ish) when it comes to multi-channel movies. Where you will notice quality differences will be in instances where the bookshelves are being asked to play loudly in a room that is too big for them. Putting a tower in a room too small isn't usually a problem as long as you can respect the boundary lines of the room and your receiver/processor can EQ them properly. It's a waste, IMO to put towers with 8" drivers in smaller areas. Will they work? Absolutely. But so could different compliments of 6 1/2" or 5 1/4" drivers in either towers or bookshelves.

2: Traditionally doesn't really exist any more. Phantom Centers, in-wall speakers, multiple subs, etc. etc. means that multi-channel audio comes in as many flavors and looks as you can dream up!

3: In practical terms. the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. subwoofer is not there to add more bass or compliment towers or bookshelves in any way shape or form (as long as the speaker system can play down to 80hz cleanly for the given room size). This is according to Dolby AC3 decoding white papers in the sections regarding the .1 channel, in-room real-world bass results, and placement of the mains vs. room interaction of low frequencies below 80hz. Your processor should be cutting the speaker system off at 80hz and putting all of the bass under that to the subwoofer(s). REMEMBER THIS when thinking FULL RANGE tower vs. bookshelf.... the tower should NEVER see full range in multi-channel if you have a sub(s). If it does, then you're doing it wrong according to the people who invented the format.

4th: What the additional subs ARE there to do is fix what is the most common demon in "bad" rooms and that is low level bass response. In fact, even in really great rooms low level bass can be an issue without either serious physical acoustical treatments and/or multiple subwoofers. A 20hz bass signal is (basically) 56 FEET long. That is substantial. The 2nd subwoofer is there to work in tandem with it's mate to provide even bass throughout a room while counteracting the long, violent wavelengths of deep bass. If you could have 10 subs in a room, even better - NOT just for sheer force or loudness, but for bass quality. The more the merrier. However, most people are not able/willing to have a room designed like this (understandably so) and get by with 2 to 4.

Think in terms of practicality.

- What size drivers does your room need for it's size and how loud you are going to get your system?
- Where is there room to put the correct size speakers where they will look and perform their best? Is this positioning possible?
- Tonally, what type of sound or speaker do you prefer? What is the cost difference between monitors on stands and floor standing speakers? Is it worth it to get the same monitor in tower form if it just comes down to aesthetics? (My personal opinion is typically YES.)
- Where will the subwoofer go? Can you afford two after buying the correct mains?
- Can you afford the proper amplification for your speakers of choice? Makes no sense to buy killer speakers if you're going to not give them enough headroom to perform.

Hope this helps you in your research!

Thanks alot for your serious reply. I get more confused each day that I research this stuff!

Here are my constraints
1) First of all, this will be for a living room, not a dedicated theater room. The room is approximately 20 feet long, 15 feet wide, and has 10 foot ceilings. The left wall (20 footer) is mostly open to a kitchen area.
2) I would like to setup at least a 5.1 system for this room..... L/C/R up front, a sub, and at least 2 surrounds in the rear. I could possibly do a 6.1 or 6.2, if anyone does those anymore!
3) I own 2 cats... so anything I buy needs to be "relatively" cat-resistant. I don't want any speakers that cats will easily shred or knock over. This is kind of a big concern of mine, since I've never owned cats and stereo gear together before!
4) This system will be used for about 75% movies and 25% music. However, most of the music that I prefer is 5.1 concerts... I'm not too keen on straight 2.1 music, unless it is in a high-res format.
5) Financially, I'd like to be able to sell my used equipment at some point down the road, and not take a massive loss on it! So to prevent this, I need to buy used gear to start with, or find a great deal on new gear, or just buy brands that hold their value well.


My thoughts:

I'm not a speaker guru, although I think I have a decent ear. To me, whenever I've listened to bookshelf speakers in stores, they don't quite impress me very much compared to tower speakers of the same line. As such, I've always ruled out bookshelf speakers. I simply know that I've always preferred the sound of tower speakers. I like the "big" sound that they create.... for lack of a better word. I like their spacious sound that seems to envelope the room. In contrast, bookshelf speakers always sound very small and constrained... not producing enough of a soundstage, or full sound.


3 things have recently possibly swayed my opinion on this:

1) Some educated forum members have suggested that I do not like the sound, because the bookshelfs I have heard were not appropriately paired a good subwoofer, and I was hearing only 2 small speakers. Apparently a good sub opens up the soundstage. I don't know.... I guess it is possible.
2) I could look at better quality bookshelf speakers than I've auditioned. Perhaps I would enjoy a higher-level bookshelf speaker equally or more than a lower-level tower. Previously, I was mostly comparing towers and bookshelfs of the same lines together.
3) I've realized that quality bookshelf speakers can be bought for WAY cheaper than quality tower speakers... so this would allow me to buy everything alot sooner...considering I need at least 5 of them!


So what do you think?


Speakers I have heard, and liked so far in my budget:
B&W CM10
B&W 804s
NHT 2.5s/2.9s/3.3s ( many years ago)



Speakers that currently intrigue me (but I haven't heard yet)

Aperion Audio Verus Grand Towers -- these get such stellar reviews, it almost seems hard to believe. For $2000, you'd think these towers were the best speakers ever made. They get glowing reviews from pros and Joes alike. I was considering buying a 5.1 setup, using their towers as mains, their center for center, and their bookshelfs as rears. It's an affordable system, but about as much as I'd want to spend.

KEF R-series: I have not heard these, but I like the looks of them, and I think they'd fit my needs for a mix of good quality home theater and music. The towers are out of my budget though, unless I bought used towers. So I'd have to use R300s all around.

KEF LS50: I'm very intrigued that Stereophile rated these tiny, "cheap" bookshelf speakers as Class A speakers, rivaling other speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars. If that's accurate, these seem like a tremendous value! I'm wondering if it would be wise to simply buy 5.1 of these speakers, and use it for my home theater + music needs. My concern is that their looks are odd, and that they may be too small for my room of 20x15.
Landmonster is offline  
post #14 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I think the R300 x 5 plus dual subs will be just peachy for a normal 20' x 20' x 10' living room. wink.gif

Also Revel M106 x 5 plus dual subs. smile.gif


Do you feel like the KEF towers as front mains would improve the sound?

Do you feel like 5.1 of KEF LS50s would be too "small" for my room?
Landmonster is offline  
post #15 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:34 AM
Senior Member
 
SyntheticShrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 108
The R500s can probably be had for around the price of the Aperion VGTs if you think you might end up with nagging doubts about going with bookshelf speakers as opposed to towers.

My opinion on the bookshelf vs towers should be obvious from my gear. smile.gif

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603
SyntheticShrimp is offline  
post #16 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Do you feel like the KEF towers as front mains would improve the sound?

Do you feel like 5.1 of KEF LS50s would be too "small" for my room?

1) I don't think towers would improve the sound.
2) I don't think the LS50 are too small for a 15' x 20' x 10' room as long as you have at least 2 subs. biggrin.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

I own 2 cats... so anything I buy needs to be "relatively" cat-resistant.

The LS50 does not have a grille, which might be very bad with 2 cats. eek.gif


Quote:
whenever I've listened to bookshelf speakers in stores, they don't quite impress me very much compared to tower speakers of the same line

It's 100% unfair to compare a bookshelf vs. tower in a 2.0 contest; the bookshelf is missing the bass!

It will be 100% different if you have dual subs along with the bookshelf.
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #17 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post


My opinion on the bookshelf vs towers should be obvious from my gear. smile.gif

Yeah, but we still want it articulated anyway. biggrin.gif
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #18 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 01:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,257
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 416
For the OP, based on your room size and you worrying about being able to fill it sufficiently, have a 75% movie use, you were already provided the best "bookshelf" for the job. See GIEGAR's post on the JTR single 8s.

Really, this is the speaker you need.
GIEGAR likes this.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #19 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

For the OP, based on your room size and you worrying about being able to fill it sufficiently, have a 75% movie use, you were already provided the best "bookshelf" for the job. See GIEGAR's post on the JTR single 8s.

Really, this is the speaker you need.


Was that a serious post? I've never heard of JTR. Elaborate
Landmonster is offline  
post #20 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,257
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Was that a serious post? I've never heard of JTR. Elaborate

Have read-

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread

http://jtrspeakers.com/#

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht/

What I would buy if I had the budget.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

Look up some of the GTG threads. JTR speakers pretty much rule roost on every one.
GIEGAR likes this.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #21 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Have read-

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread

http://jtrspeakers.com/#

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht/

What I would buy if I had the budget.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

Look up some of the GTG threads. JTR speakers pretty much rule roost on every one.


Do these actually sound good, or are they meant to be loud? Where can I buy them? They look kinda big for bookshelfs.
Landmonster is offline  
post #22 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,257
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Do these actually sound good, or are they meant to be loud? Where can I buy them? They look kinda big for bookshelfs.

You buy them directly from JTR.

I have not heard them, but I have also not read a single negative comment as to their sound for both HT and music.

You can't get big, dynamic sound from little speakers so................. wink.gif

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #23 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Landmonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Yea. They look like big, industrial type of speakers for institutions or something. They don't "look" like audiophile gear that you'd expect super clean sound out of.
Landmonster is offline  
post #24 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

You buy them directly from JTR.

I have not heard them, but I have also not read a single negative comment as to their sound for both HT and music.

Just to be thorough, I have heard disparaging remarks of JTR sound quality more than once, which can be said of almost any brand.

Bottom line, not everyone likes the sound of JTR, which can be said of almost any brand.

You may love them or you may hate them.
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
post #25 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,257
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 291 Post(s)
Liked: 416
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Just to be thorough, I have heard disparaging remarks of JTR sound quality more than once, which can be said of almost any brand.

Bottom line, not everyone likes the sound of JTR, which can be said of almost any brand.

You may love them or you may hate them.

I'm sure they're out there, I just haven't come across any in my limited reading on them. Since I can't afford them I don't pay that much attention. But from the GTGs they sure do seem to be an impressive speaker.

And are there really people out there that don't like my Klipsch speakers? The nerve! tongue.gif

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
post #26 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 04:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

For the OP, based on your room size and you worrying about being able to fill it sufficiently, have a 75% movie use, you were already provided the best "bookshelf" for the job. See GIEGAR's post on the JTR single 8s.

Really, this is the speaker you need.

Thanks for the vote Kini62! wink.gif

I should also have mentioned that I recommend these primarily for LCR.

For surrounds on a budget that match well, I recommend a pair (or two pairs) of JBL 8320 Compact Cinema Surrounds. Plough the difference into more capable dual subs - you'll need them to keep pace with the JTR's. biggrin.gif
GIEGAR is offline  
post #27 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 05:08 PM
 
PlexMulti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Thanks alot for your serious reply. I get more confused each day that I research this stuff!

Here are my constraints
1) First of all, this will be for a living room, not a dedicated theater room. The room is approximately 20 feet long, 15 feet wide, and has 10 foot ceilings. The left wall (20 footer) is mostly open to a kitchen area.
2) I would like to setup at least a 5.1 system for this room..... L/C/R up front, a sub, and at least 2 surrounds in the rear. I could possibly do a 6.1 or 6.2, if anyone does those anymore!
3) I own 2 cats... so anything I buy needs to be "relatively" cat-resistant. I don't want any speakers that cats will easily shred or knock over. This is kind of a big concern of mine, since I've never owned cats and stereo gear together before!
4) This system will be used for about 75% movies and 25% music. However, most of the music that I prefer is 5.1 concerts... I'm not too keen on straight 2.1 music, unless it is in a high-res format.
5) Financially, I'd like to be able to sell my used equipment at some point down the road, and not take a massive loss on it! So to prevent this, I need to buy used gear to start with, or find a great deal on new gear, or just buy brands that hold their value well.


My thoughts:

I'm not a speaker guru, although I think I have a decent ear. To me, whenever I've listened to bookshelf speakers in stores, they don't quite impress me very much compared to tower speakers of the same line. As such, I've always ruled out bookshelf speakers. I simply know that I've always preferred the sound of tower speakers. I like the "big" sound that they create.... for lack of a better word. I like their spacious sound that seems to envelope the room. In contrast, bookshelf speakers always sound very small and constrained... not producing enough of a soundstage, or full sound.


3 things have recently possibly swayed my opinion on this:

1) Some educated forum members have suggested that I do not like the sound, because the bookshelfs I have heard were not appropriately paired a good subwoofer, and I was hearing only 2 small speakers. Apparently a good sub opens up the soundstage. I don't know.... I guess it is possible.
2) I could look at better quality bookshelf speakers than I've auditioned. Perhaps I would enjoy a higher-level bookshelf speaker equally or more than a lower-level tower. Previously, I was mostly comparing towers and bookshelfs of the same lines together.
3) I've realized that quality bookshelf speakers can be bought for WAY cheaper than quality tower speakers... so this would allow me to buy everything alot sooner...considering I need at least 5 of them!


So what do you think?


Speakers I have heard, and liked so far in my budget:
B&W CM10
B&W 804s
NHT 2.5s/2.9s/3.3s ( many years ago)



Speakers that currently intrigue me (but I haven't heard yet)

Aperion Audio Verus Grand Towers -- these get such stellar reviews, it almost seems hard to believe. For $2000, you'd think these towers were the best speakers ever made. They get glowing reviews from pros and Joes alike. I was considering buying a 5.1 setup, using their towers as mains, their center for center, and their bookshelfs as rears. It's an affordable system, but about as much as I'd want to spend.

KEF R-series: I have not heard these, but I like the looks of them, and I think they'd fit my needs for a mix of good quality home theater and music. The towers are out of my budget though, unless I bought used towers. So I'd have to use R300s all around.

KEF LS50: I'm very intrigued that Stereophile rated these tiny, "cheap" bookshelf speakers as Class A speakers, rivaling other speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars. If that's accurate, these seem like a tremendous value! I'm wondering if it would be wise to simply buy 5.1 of these speakers, and use it for my home theater + music needs. My concern is that their looks are odd, and that they may be too small for my room of 20x15.

Good info to work with and I have suggestions at the bottom of my reply......

- Your room is 3000 cubic feet exactly and is just on the edge of THX Ultra2 (in English: Medium/Large room). The good news for you is the 3000 cubic feet can be done with 6 1/2" drivers. In general would NOT do speakers with a 5 1/4". A bookshelf model with an 8" woofer should also suffice in a room this large (but it is not what I will recommend given your cat situation and aesthetic desires).

- GREAT SPEAKERS WILL LAST YOU A LIFETIME. Great electronics don't exist wink.gif . What I mean by that is that really good speakers are going to last a long time and you'll never get sick of them if you pick what you like BOTH aesthetically and from a sound quality stand point. Other things like receivers, TVs, etc. break more often than speakers and will absolutely need to be changed as new features come out. Speakers, generally, do not have these time related issues. I'm not saying to go crazy, sell the farm, and over spend... just that you get what you want with the speakers and settle for what you need to power and process the sound to them.

- TOWERS for you with the cats..... TOWERS.

- Cosmetically, I don't know what you like so I will suggest speakers that will perform really well without an insane investment in electronics, that aren't outrageously priced (MSRP wise) for the performance wants you have eluded to and that I think look really sharp. I will NOT include any subwoofer selection in with this stuff as that always lights some crazy fire under people touting internet sub brand "XYZ" and then the thread gets derailed. In no particular order (MSRP next to each system).....

- KEF Q700 w/ matching center & surrounds ($2,950) http://kef.com/html/us/showroom/hi-fi_series/q_series/fact_sheets/Floorstanding/Q700/index.html
- REVEL F206 w/ matching center & surrounds ($6,300) - YOU MENTIONED THE KEF R SERIES - like the R700 tower? - BUT, FRANKLY, THE REVEL F206 IS A BETTER SPEAKER. ALSO, THESE WILL NEED SOME POWER TO DRIVE SO FACTOR THAT INTO OVERALL COST. http://www.revelspeakers.com/Products/Details/224
- JBL LS60 w/ matching center & (Revel) surrounds (3,997) http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/98
- Jamo C805 w/ matching center & surrounds ($3,445) http://www.jamo.com/speaker-lines/concert/C800/?sku=C805
- Phase Technology PC9.5 w/ matching center & surrounds ($6420) http://www.phasetech.com/index.php/products/speaker-series/premier-collection-series-speakers/
- RBH Sound SX-6300 w/ matching center & surrounds ($4,600) http://rbhsound.com/sx6300.php

- Another option here would be the Atlantic Technology monitors with stands. The 6200e with the 4400 surrounds would also be a great option and very cat safe. The 6200e MSRP is $6,000.

In my opinion, and based strictly on performance to value for your room and requirements: I would really look at the KEF Q series, the RBH SX-6300 system, and the Phase Tech PC9.5 system. All of which perform sickeningly well and of which really good deals can be had. The RBH & Phase Technology pieces are made in the USA as well, if that matters to you at all. I will say that both RBH & Phase Tech make some killer subwoofers that aesthetically match their speakers, but that you can buy the sub from any line you choose. KEF subs are not my favorite thing in the world.

Please note: Deals should be sought for any of these systems so only look at the MSRP numbers as a ceiling! Also, many towers have long speaker grilles. Not sure if your cats will come up and scratch them or not. If so, then remove the grilles - unless they have low placed drivers and you think they will bother them..... in which case, remove the cats tongue.gif
PlexMulti is offline  
post #28 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Have read-

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread

http://jtrspeakers.com/#

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht/

What I would buy if I had the budget.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

Look up some of the GTG threads. JTR speakers pretty much rule roost on every one.


Do these actually sound good, or are they meant to be loud? Where can I buy them? They look kinda big for bookshelfs.

BOTH!

Shootout and GTG regular Archaea has related this experience a few times (my emphasis):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Honestly --- Does anyone really think they need to go louder than that for home theater use? The 228HT are capable of ~ those same volume levels shown in the video. Furthermore: The single 8 - Jeff's smallest offering has etched itself in my memory as one of the single loudest displays of Audio SPL levels I've ever experienced in HuskerOmaha's 2011 meet. Jeff took a pair of single eight's on a pro amp up to absolutely ear splitting volume levels, and they remained devastatingly crystal clear. So - no...Don't buy the larger units because you fear the smaller units can't handle your 3,500 cubic foot home theater -- that's not going to be a problem with anything Jeff sells.
[Source]

Have a read of the attendees impressions at this speaker shootout: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468211/ne-spring-speaker-shootout-results-thread-april-13-2013
GIEGAR is offline  
post #29 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 05:14 PM
 
PlexMulti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Have read-

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread

http://jtrspeakers.com/#

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/single-8ht/

What I would buy if I had the budget.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/triple-8ht/

Look up some of the GTG threads. JTR speakers pretty much rule roost on every one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

You buy them directly from JTR.

I have not heard them, but I have also not read a single negative comment as to their sound for both HT and music.

You can't get big, dynamic sound from little speakers so................. wink.gif

Of which quite a few are started and almost solely attended by JTR guys.

Also, how do you think internet companies get their products sold? Forums like this are absolute hotbeds for internet guerrilla marketing. There have been several issues, not just on audio forums like AVS & Audioholics - but across many many industries, with companies creating screen names on forums or "legit" review boards/sites just to keep mentioning their line and steering people to their site to generate sales. A popular internet direct subwoofer company polluted forums like this for years before being outed and forced to stop.
PlexMulti is offline  
post #30 of 200 Old 11-20-2013, 05:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
GIEGAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,198
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Yea. They look like big, industrial type of speakers for institutions or something. They don't "look" like audiophile gear that you'd expect super clean sound out of.

See above (post 28). Just goes to show doesn't it? wink.gif
GIEGAR is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Jtr , Kef Ls50 2 Way Speaker System

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off