Surrounds to match AV123 RS850s and 200 Bigfoot - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 11-20-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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So a couple years ago I took the plunge on a 200 Bigfoot + RS850 + RS450 5.0 setup and couldn't be happier. The 450s were killer for surrounds, but now I've bought a house, and the living room / sectional won't allow the 450s as surrounds without gaudy stands and an odd presentation (floor standers lifted up 18"). The RS850s provide enough Bass for now, but may get an SVS supplement.

The real question is that since av123 has shut it's doors, I need to find suitable surrounds to go with the 850s. I like listening to records, and watching movies, but 5-channel stereo isn't a requirement. The Denon 3311 does it's job pretty well, although the 850s can be power hungry little monsters.

I'd like to stay ID, and since I'm moving away from big guys due to placement issues, something "smaller" that I could put on a wall would be perfect. I saw the QS8s from Axiom that I can get in a rosewood finish to match the 850s, but are there any newcomers in the past five years I shouldn't be overlooking?

As for the 450s, for all you rocket fans, they will not be relegated to service in the basement, likely finding a happy home somewhere replacing some klipsches until I can find a happy place for them once again in my house.
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post #2 of 15 Old 11-20-2013, 09:33 AM
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EMP sells the E55Wi bi-pole surrounds, they come in a beatiful red burl finish very similar to the Rockets. The E5Bi is a medium sized bookshelf in case you prefer that type instead.

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post #3 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I see you run EMPs on the AVR1700, with some NHTs and some other nice stuff. How do the EMPs stack up quality wise (sound and construction)?
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post #4 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 11:40 AM
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The EMPs have a great build quality, well braced and a very good finish. I do not own the E55Wis, but I thoroughly enjoy my EMP speakers. They have a more neutral sound, with great mid-range and create a wide soundstage. Surrounds don't play a lot of content, so most anything will do a decent enough job, I recommended these because they would match your other speakers appearance wise. I have never heard AV123 speakers, they were popular before I got into this hobby, so I can't comment on sound similarities.

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post #5 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 12:08 PM
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Link to the EMP
http://emptek.com/e55wi.php

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post #6 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 12:25 PM
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Have you thought of looking on the used market for some RSS300's? They pop up on the forums from time to time.

If looking at new only check out Aperion Audio's Verus surrounds. I found the sound to be similar to the Rockets.

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post #7 of 15 Old 11-21-2013, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Those Aperions look perfect... I checked craigslist and ebay, I don't think too many people would easily part with the AV123s, I know I won't, and I'd like to get my sound stage worked out before the housewarming in three weeks. It just doesn't seem proper to pair $1000/ea mains with $165/ea EMPs, the Aperions are probably what I'm after at $350/ea, and the speakers they are replacing were ~$700/ea (can't remember) although the low end will be quite lacking in comparison. Then again, I can't afford the space to utilize the low end... An SVS will just have to take care of that.
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post #8 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmikemiller View Post

Those Aperions look perfect... I checked craigslist and ebay, I don't think too many people would easily part with the AV123s, I know I won't, and I'd like to get my sound stage worked out before the housewarming in three weeks. It just doesn't seem proper to pair $1000/ea mains with $165/ea EMPs, the Aperions are probably what I'm after at $350/ea, and the speakers they are replacing were ~$700/ea (can't remember) although the low end will be quite lacking in comparison. Then again, I can't afford the space to utilize the low end... An SVS will just have to take care of that.

When it comes to speakers, higher price does not equate to better performance.

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post #9 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

When it comes to speakers, higher price does not equate to better performance.

Somewhat true. There is a bottom dollar somewhere. Either you spend a bunch of time engineering cheaper components to "tweak" them, or you use better components. Both cost money. In my own research (I was going to build a set) I found a sweet spot somewhere around $200-300/ea where the BOM has nice cabinets, nice components, and the return on more diminishes fast. You *CAN* get surplus components, etc. cheaper, but best of luck maintaining it as finding them later may be quite difficult. I'll pay for the higher cost components, engineering, and worksmanship (which isn't cheap).
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post #10 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 08:11 AM
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EMP is built on the foundation of RBH, perhaps you have heard of them. I am not trying to push you one way or another, but I am just saying don't limit your options because you feel the need to pay a certain amount of money, and believe that price dictates quality. I think Bose is a perfect example of the price/performance ratio...

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post #11 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 08:27 AM
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They won't match the look of the rockets, but I've been using the Emotiva ERD-1 as my surrounds (with RS1000s and Bigfoot) for a couple of years now and have been very happy with them.
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post #12 of 15 Old 11-22-2013, 10:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

EMP is built on the foundation of RBH, perhaps you have heard of them. I am not trying to push you one way or another, but I am just saying don't limit your options because you feel the need to pay a certain amount of money, and believe that price dictates quality. I think Bose is a perfect example of the price/performance ratio...

My opinion on bose is that they are utter crap. Like a fiero kitted up like a lambo, those aren't speakers, they're gimmicks. That said when Bose had decent size cabinets, they held their own in the middle consumer market, perhaps edging (barely) into the upper. Anyone who knows sound knows you cant fit big lasting sound to fill a room into a cigarette box size space without extremely impressive engineering. I have heard some impressive small setups, but they only work in very short listening distances and that's how they do it (think nice headphones).

That said I am function over form, with form as a factor. The Aperions were actually the runner up when I purchased the av123s, and I believe energy was the distant third option (considered on par or better than my higher end cerwin vega setup at the time, less efficient but more accurate), but av123 cut $700 off the list price of the package and it was a done deal. So when the kind member reminded me of the Aperion option, to me it was a no brainer, as it was inline with my thinking at the time of the av123 purchase six years ago or whatever. I'm trying to preserve that goal, and keep it going another 5 or 10 years with as much continuity as possible to the original purchase criteria.

In the end I am spending 25% of the original purchase to increase it's versatility by an amendment for wall mounted surrounds. In my mind, it will remain a "set" with an "addition" and I am happy with the decision mostly on the grounds I just stated.

Thank you all for your advise.
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post #13 of 15 Old 11-23-2013, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

EMP is built on the foundation of RBH, perhaps you have heard of them. I am not trying to push you one way or another, but I am just saying don't limit your options because you feel the need to pay a certain amount of money, and believe that price dictates quality. I think Bose is a perfect example of the price/performance ratio...
+1. Face it, the average person doesn't know squat about how speakers work, so they can be easily convinced that there is a direct link between cost and performance. There is not. A more expensive speaker may work better than a less expensive speaker, but it also may not. Many speakers priced at more than $1k, including some priced at $10K, work no better than some priced at $500. Bose is the perfect example of speakers that work no better, and for that matter in most cases not as well as, other speakers costing 75% less. They're priced absurdly high because their market researchers told them that people would be more likely to believe their advertising hype if their high prices gave them the impression that they must work as advertised to be worth so much. They were right. It's the same marketing strategy that keeps every 'high end' cable company in business.
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post #14 of 15 Old 11-23-2013, 10:30 PM
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I have a pair of RSS 300s I would possibly part with. Since moving in 05, I haven't been able to use them. Had for a couple of years new from AVS prior to that.

These are in rose wood and also have the same tweeters that the RS 750's have, not the small dome type, but the pointy type, can't remember the name.

PM if you are interested. They are sitting in my garage now for some years in the original box.

Also have a pair or 250's or some such (one dome tweeter, one 5" woofer) I bought for use as rears that I am also not using. Also in rose wood.


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post #15 of 15 Old 11-30-2013, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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So the aperions arrived and after evaluating some bad company, eagles, and pick floyd vinyl I wouldn't call them perfect, but I certainly have to be really focused to hear the mismatch. I'm running the bi-pole setup, but I'm very intrigued to potentially run the di-poles some day. Set the crossovers for them much higher (80hz) than the rs850s, rsc200 they join (40hz). Had to tweak the distances and all, but they sound great. I guess I just need to break them in now with 5 channel stereo :-). I'll post pics...
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