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post #1 of 21 Old 11-26-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all,

I am finalizing my selections for speakers and am a bit stuck as to getting direct surrounds vs bipole (or perhaps dipole even). Given that I don't have the option to audition bipole/dipole speakers, I was wondering if my decision should be based on where I can actually put the surrounds given my oddly shaped room:




The only 3 options I can really see are:

1. Bottom left corner on the long wall facing the length of the sectional

2a. above the door on the short wall on the top - pro is that is will be on the opposite of 1. surrounding all listening positions, but downside is that it is pretty far away from listening positions (chair and sectional)
2b. on the middle wall that forms the aisle with the sectional - pro is that it forms and even position with the sectional but now it would be on the wrong side of the chair

Note that the "wall" between the chair and the staircase is just an open space (railing).

The surrounds will need to be near the ceiling, so I was leaning direct so I can easily angle them down with brackets, and that given the research I've done my room just isn't made for good use of bipole speakers, but curious to hear your thoughts.

As always I really appreciate everyone's feedback and advice! Thanks!
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post #2 of 21 Old 11-26-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

The surrounds will need to be near the ceiling, so I was leaning direct so I can easily angle them down with brackets, and that given the research I've done my room just isn't made for good use of bipole speakers, but curious to hear your thoughts.
 

My surrounds are a bipole/dipole setup and they work great if you have the wall space to use them but I can't imagine of a way I could use the speakers mounted near the ceiling. So speaking strictly from my own experiences I agree with your conclusion, I think you would have to go with the directionals. 

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post #3 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

My surrounds are a bipole/dipole setup and they work great if you have the wall space to use them but I can't imagine of a way I could use the speakers mounted near the ceiling. So speaking strictly from my own experiences I agree with your conclusion, I think you would have to go with the directionals. 

Thanks Hopi. How far down the wall are yours? Or at what level in reference to listening position?
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post #4 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 04:21 AM
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I would go with bipole/dipole switchables, the reason manufacturers recommend direct radiators in such situations is that the real power of bipole/dipole will show its true colors when reflected on the walls. Though when you place them less perfectly, this effect gets diminished, but still more than with direct radiators. They recommend direct radiators because you might not be as wowed with the bipole/dipole speakers as you expected and they normally are quite a bit more expensive. Though using them as bipoles will at least get you the same quality as direct radiators and if you are lucky enough even better.

I would also like you to point to this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/874378/surround-speakers-bipole-dipole-quadpole-omnipole-which-one/570

Very good thread with a lot of knowledgeable and less knowledgeable people.

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post #5 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Johan. I did visit that thread before I started this one but I thought given the unique layout of the room (no symmetry, surrounds have to be high up on the wall) so wasn't sure if that would change the decision. It seems like having them very wide is actually a good thing - not so sure about the height. As pointed out they are much more expensive, particularly switchables, so I'll have to think about that.
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post #6 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 06:50 AM
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Thanks Johan. I did visit that thread before I started this one but I thought given the unique layout of the room (no symmetry, surrounds have to be high up on the wall) so wasn't sure if that would change the decision. It seems like having them very wide is actually a good thing - not so sure about the height. As pointed out they are much more expensive, particularly switchables, so I'll have to think about that.

I don't know what you think of as expenisve, but I bought some MA RXFX speakers which are switchables and I am glad I did. I thought I would have like bipolar better, but I am a complete convert to the dipole team now I have tested them out some more. I never want to go back, that means I would have had to buy new speakers if I wouldn't have done that.... So it is a wise extra investment if you ask me.

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post #7 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Johan81 View Post

I don't know what you think of as expenisve, but I bought some MA RXFX speakers which are switchables and I am glad I did. I thought I would have like bipolar better, but I am a complete convert to the dipole team now I have tested them out some more. I never want to go back, that means I would have had to buy new speakers if I wouldn't have done that.... So it is a wise extra investment if you ask me.

Oh non not saying it's not a wise investment. If it works and you like the sound then awesome. I'm just concerned that my set up really doesn't allow for it right now. Also given that I'm looking at psb at the moment, their switchables are $1300 which was more than I had budgeted for surrounds. Perhaps going off brand on those isn't a bad decision.
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post #8 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Hey all,

I am finalizing my selections for speakers and am a bit stuck as to getting direct surrounds vs bipole (or perhaps dipole even). Given that I don't have the option to audition bipole/dipole speakers, I was wondering if my decision should be based on where I can actually put the surrounds given my oddly shaped room:




The only 3 options I can really see are:

1. Bottom left corner on the long wall facing the length of the sectional

2a. above the door on the short wall on the top - pro is that is will be on the opposite of 1. surrounding all listening positions, but downside is that it is pretty far away from listening positions (chair and sectional)
2b. on the middle wall that forms the aisle with the sectional - pro is that it forms and even position with the sectional but now it would be on the wrong side of the chair

Note that the "wall" between the chair and the staircase is just an open space (railing).

The surrounds will need to be near the ceiling, so I was leaning direct so I can easily angle them down with brackets, and that given the research I've done my room just isn't made for good use of bipole speakers, but curious to hear your thoughts.

As always I really appreciate everyone's feedback and advice! Thanks!

I like the idea of sitting in the "null" of the surround speakers...where you are hearing most everything but a direct sound. Because of the information provided to those channels by movie makers, and the fact that I am hearing non localized information, makes the experience more convincable to me, with movies and Video concerts. The bi-pole or di-pole would be my choice. I would place the surrounds to the rearmost location behind or in the corners of the sofa. Yeah, the single chair might not be in the ideal spot this way, but the sofa sure would.

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post #9 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the idea of sitting in the "null" of the surround speakers...where you are hearing most everything but a direct sound. Because of the information provided to those channels by movie makers, and the fact that I am hearing non localized information, makes the experience more convincable to me, with movies and Video concerts. The bi-pole or di-pole would be my choice. I would place the surrounds to the rearmost location behind or in the corners of the sofa. Yeah, the single chair might not be in the ideal spot this way, but the sofa sure would.

Thanks Espo. Would your opinion change if the speakers had to be near the ceiling (i.e. way above the listening position).?
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post #10 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 10:48 AM
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Thanks Hopi. How far down the wall are yours? Or at what level in reference to listening position?

My speakers are at eat level on the side walls. I agree with the other posters that the bipole/dipole are a great way to go and if you could pull it off with your current setup then I would do it. I just realized that you were asking about near the ceiling not hanging hanging from the ceiling like some people do with direct surrounds. I have considered doing this and I think it would work with the bipole/dipole design.

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post #11 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 11:02 AM
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Oh non not saying it's not a wise investment. If it works and you like the sound then awesome. I'm just concerned that my set up really doesn't allow for it right now. Also given that I'm looking at psb at the moment, their switchables are $1300 which was more than I had budgeted for surrounds. Perhaps going off brand on those isn't a bad decision.

OK, that is indeed a pretty steep investment, though I remember when I went for direct radiators back in the day and having gone for dipoles now, I am so glad I did! So glad, that I really am a bit disappointed in the fact I put it off that long. Yes, your room is not completely ideal for dipoles or bipoles, but it is even less ideal for direct radiators. If you are still doubting to go with dipoles or bipoles, this is pretty easy if you ask me. Can you place the speakers almost precisely at the sides of the couch? If yes, I think that dipoles will do a terrific job, plenty room for reflection.

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post #12 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone.

Because of doors and closets (and waf) i would have to hang the speakers on the wall right under the ceiling. The plan was to get adjustable speaker mounts so I can angle the direct speakers downward. In general the diffused idea sounds good to me but if they are so high up and not symmetric not sure if it makes sense. Does that change anyone's opinion on the choice? Ideally I could try both but would need to find a dealer who is ok with that
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post #13 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 11:25 AM
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Another option would be to go with a cheaper set of bi/dipoles. If were were talking front channels I would never say go with a different companies but surrounds play content that really adds to the experience but not something we consciously think about how pristine it sounded, especially considering that dipole diffuses the sound. There are certainly cheaper options than the PSBs. You may want to check into a good set of more affordable speakers from another company.

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post #14 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TheZaha View Post

Thanks everyone.

Because of doors and closets (and waf) i would have to hang the speakers on the wall right under the ceiling. The plan was to get adjustable speaker mounts so I can angle the direct speakers downward. In general the diffused idea sounds good to me but if they are so high up and not symmetric not sure if it makes sense. Does that change anyone's opinion on the choice? Ideally I could try both but would need to find a dealer who is ok with that

Check out Crutchfield. They have a 60 day return policy with phenomenal customer service. I have returned items to them with no hassle. One time it was a set of speakers I had for 50+ days. No problem.

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post #15 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

My speakers are at eat level on the side walls. I agree with the other posters that the bipole/dipole are a great way to go and if you could pull it off with your current setup then I would do it. I just realized that you were asking about near the ceiling not hanging hanging from the ceiling like some people do with direct surrounds. I have considered doing this and I think it would work with the bipole/dipole design.

"My speakers are at eat level"...I'm getting hungry

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post #16 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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"My speakers are at eat level"...I'm getting hungry

LOL. at first I even missed the typo in your post. I was reading it going "Why's he hungry with ear level speakers?" It took me about 20 seconds to finally see it. I must be going blind.

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post #17 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 01:12 PM
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Thanks everyone.

Because of doors and closets (and waf) i would have to hang the speakers on the wall right under the ceiling. The plan was to get adjustable speaker mounts so I can angle the direct speakers downward. In general the diffused idea sounds good to me but if they are so high up and not symmetric not sure if it makes sense. Does that change anyone's opinion on the choice? Ideally I could try both but would need to find a dealer who is ok with that

I would also go with cheaper switchables and if you really do not want to go that way, go for bipoles as they are way easier to implement and I liked bipoles better than direct radiators and not a little. Though in my case I can sit in the null and dipole mode is even better, but I wouldn't go with directs. How high will they hang above ear level? It is not really a huge problem hanging them high though, just not ideal, but at ear level is even less ideal, they are supposed to hang at least 2'-3' above ear level.

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post #18 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 01:28 PM
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I would also go with cheaper switchables and if you really do not want to go that way, go for bipoles as they are way easier to implement and I liked bipoles better than direct radiators and not a little. Though in my case I can sit in the null and dipole mode is even better, but I wouldn't go with directs. How high will they hang above ear level? It is not really a huge problem hanging them high though, just not ideal, but at ear level is even less ideal, they are supposed to hang at least 2'-3' above ear level.

Good point and I should point out that mine are actually a few inches above ear level as well. I should have been more accurate.

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post #19 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I would also go with cheaper switchables and if you really do not want to go that way, go for bipoles as they are way easier to implement and I liked bipoles better than direct radiators and not a little. Though in my case I can sit in the null and dipole mode is even better, but I wouldn't go with directs. How high will they hang above ear level? It is not really a huge problem hanging them high though, just not ideal, but at ear level is even less ideal, they are supposed to hang at least 2'-3' above ear level.

They would be maybe 3-4 ft above ear level. I went to a hifi store tonight and they had some cheaper paradigm bipoloes about 2 ft above ear level and I thought they were great.

The salesmen (owner) recommended same as you guys - go dipole or bipole and go symmetric around the couch as that will be primary listening position
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post #20 of 21 Old 11-27-2013, 06:58 PM
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Thanks Espo. Would your opinion change if the speakers had to be near the ceiling (i.e. way above the listening position).?


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post #21 of 21 Old 11-28-2013, 01:34 AM
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They would be maybe 3-4 ft above ear level. I went to a hifi store tonight and they had some cheaper paradigm bipoloes about 2 ft above ear level and I thought they were great.

The salesmen (owner) recommended same as you guys - go dipole or bipole and go symmetric around the couch as that will be primary listening position

If you can do 3' it would even be ideal, so I would try to go with that plan to your spouse wink.gif if she doesn't agree, 4' would still be considered pretty darn close to ideal! So you know what to go for I guess tongue.gif

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