Htd level twos vs nht superzero 2.1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright folks, I have utilized several peoples opinions on other threads to bring my setup down to 2 options. 5.1 system. Mainly movies. 12x 13 room. Seating distance 8 feet.

1. Nht superzeros 2.1 (5 bookshelf speakers and matching sub) $639.

2. Htd level two setup. (4 bookshelf speakers and a matching center. Need to determine sub) $529 plus sub.

I can't pick. Any experiences or information would be great. If you like the level 2s, what sub would you suggest?
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post #2 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 06:30 PM
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I had 5 of the SZ 2.0s in a slightly larger room on they were really nice. They have a wonderful voicing, on the warm side, especially with female vocals. I upgraded only because I wanted more oomph for movies and some types of music.

IMO they are a really nice speaker. And they are finished very nice. They have to be used with a sub though.

If you're going to be doing much movie watching get the biggest sub you can afford.

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post #3 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 06:50 PM
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post #4 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

I had 5 of the SZ 2.0s in a slightly larger room on they were really nice. They have a wonderful voicing, on the warm side, especially with female vocals. I upgraded only because I wanted more oomph for movies and some types of music.

IMO they are a really nice speaker. And they are finished very nice. They have to be used with a sub though.

If you're going to be doing much movie watching get the biggest sub you can afford.

When you say oomph, do you mean that you felt you couldn't get the volume desired out of the speakers? I don't want to run out of power. If I get the nht's, I will get the super 8 sub. I guess it makes the system.
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post #5 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 08:21 PM
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HTD Level Two

Sub choice
HSU STF-2
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

For tight budget
Outlaw M8
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html

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post #6 of 48 Old 11-30-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post


Sub choice
HSU STF-2
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

I'd wait till this (Cyber) Monday. The price might go down a few bucks.
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post #7 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

HTD Level Two

Sub choice
HSU STF-2
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

For tight budget
Outlaw M8
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html

My main issue with these is size. How far off the wall do the mains have to be? Can that be in front of the tv plane?

Obviously these are too large to wall mount surrounds. Do you have an alternate surround that would match that I can mount?
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post #8 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

My main issue with these is size. How far off the wall do the mains have to be? Can that be in front of the tv plane?

Obviously these are too large to wall mount surrounds. Do you have an alternate surround that would match that I can mount?

For the best sound, you want the front 3 speakers to be on an even plane - I prefer that the speakers be at least,
slightly ahead of the TV - and at the front edge of the cabinet. The HTD speakers can be wall mounted - however
if off the wall, I prefer at least 3 or more inches from the wall if you can.

If you do surround sound music, then it is better to timbre match the speakers - if mostly Movies/TV and games,
then a different company surround can work.

For surrounds, look at:
Boston SoundWare
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSSOUNDWARESLVA/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SoundWare-4.5-Indoor/Outdoor-Speaker-EA-Silver-NEW/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/BOSSOUNDWAREWHT/BOSTON-ACOUSTICS-SoundWare-4.5-in-Indoor/Outdoor-Speaker-Each/1.html

NXG Pro 4.1
http://www.amazon.com/Nxg-Pro-4-1-Satellite-Speaker/dp/B0044UHVOK/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

For closer timbre matching and small - HTD Middy
http://www.htd.com/cabinet-speakers/flat-panel-speakers/middy-compact-speaker

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post #9 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

HTD Level Two

Sub choice
HSU STF-2
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html

For tight budget
Outlaw M8
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html

+1 the HTD Level Two's.

The NHT SZ 2's are very good (excellent highs and detail), But after auditioning them I tend to think of them as really good satellite speakers, because they have no low end and really even taper off quite a bit in the mids (like most satellite speakers). Because of this the crossover with the sub needs to be higher than normal so you need a very good sub (i.e not an entry level sub) to get the most out of them.
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post #10 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

+1 the HTD Level Two's.

The NHT SZ 2's are very good (excellent highs and detail), But after auditioning them I tend to think of them as really good satellite speakers, because they have no low end and really even taper off quite a bit in the mids (like most satellite speakers). Because of this the crossover with the sub needs to be higher than normal so you need a very good sub (i.e not an entry level sub) to get the most out of them.

Did you audition them with their matching sub, the super 8? That is what I would buy.
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post #11 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

Did you audition them with their matching sub, the super 8? That is what I would buy.
The SZ will sound great with that sub. Just be advised that sub doesn't go much below the upper 30hz range.

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post #12 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The SZ will sound great with that sub. Just be advised that sub doesn't go much below the upper 30hz range.

What would you consider to be an acceptable range? I am looking for HT only
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post #13 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

What would you consider to be an acceptable range? I am looking for HT only

Here are your measurements
The sub is -3 db at 38hz and -6 db at 34 hz
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nht-superzero-20-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

The SuperZero does not have much bass

However for what they can do, the system is nice.

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post #14 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

What would you consider to be an acceptable range? I am looking for HT only

Acceptable range would be at least down to the lower 20hz range.

Preferable range would be in the mid teens. Anything lower than that usually requires a lot more money. But in your size room you could get into the mid teens for around $1000 or so.

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post #15 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Here are your measurements
The sub is -3 db at 38hz and -6 db at 34 hz
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/nht-superzero-20-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

The SuperZero does not have much bass

However for what they can do, the system is nice.

As stated before, I am a bit of a newb and the graphs and stats at given measurement levels mean nothing to me.

Looks like the graph has a good crossover area between the two speakers in my eye. If you say 30 hertz is bad bass, what value is good. That level two bass has very similar numbers.

Second, all stats you have given me are for the 2.0s. I am looking at the newer 2.1s. They have a little more bass response.

Why do I care if the satellites can't reach as low, if the bass can pick it up in my small space, and the satellites sound fantastic in their range?
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post #16 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:30 PM
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I would imagine that 8" sub would handle a higher crossover well. But as others mentioned it's more of a low woofer than a real subwoofer, HT digs down into the sub 30Hz range regularly.

The other issue (with any satellite speaker setup) is that sound starts becoming localized at 100Hz, so even though the frequencies would covered by the sub they would all becoming from that source, not from the other speaker locations.

Don't get me wrong ... I'm not anti the SZ 2 speakers, I think they are very good speakers. My discussion/comments are along the lines of comparing any satellite vs bookshelf speaker system for HT. Sound isn't the only consideration, what fits better in your space, budget, etc. are equally substantial reasons for selecting speakers.

In that price range ($350) there are other subs that dig more into the "sub" range, but their high end might be suspect (lack clarity, etc.) for use with satellite speakers. SVS, Outlaw and Rhythmik have subs in the $500-$600 range that would cover both the low and high well. The SVS PB-1000 (for $500) comes to mind first.
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post #17 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:37 PM
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If you want a sub that can go down for a nice price - it is the HSU STF-2

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post #18 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What if I got a 7.2 receiver and dual sub'd at a later date-once I have more money. I can get a sub , either the super 8 or level 2 sub, for low 200s.
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post #19 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I ask this since the level 2s you recommend also reach the same low range of 30 hertz
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post #20 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

If you want a sub that can go down for a nice price - it is the HSU STF-2

Forgot about that one! A very good sub for $320. I would probably recommend it over the NHT or HTD Level 2 subs.
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post #21 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Acceptable range would be at least down to the lower 20hz range.

Preferable range would be in the mid teens. Anything lower than that usually requires a lot more money. But in your size room you could get into the mid teens for around $1000 or so.
Nice thought, but unless you have a very small room, you are talking $1k worth of subs to get into the low 20's. The teens even more $$$$$
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post #22 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:54 PM
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Nice thought, but unless you have a very small room, you are talking $1k worth of subs to get into the low 20's. The teens even more $$$$$

The op's room is small. He could hit upper teens no problem for less than 1K.

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post #23 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 05:55 PM
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Consider also the boston acoustics A25 or A26. You can them use a cheaper sub. They go down to about 50hz. Also a +1 on the BA soundware 4.5.

Think before you speak....
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post #24 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I would love to get a sub for 1000 but my total budget for speakers is about 750. This is where I am hitting my feasibility limit.
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post #25 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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In addition, my "room" is an end of a 40x13 room. The area being used as a theatre is 12x13. One end if the room opens into the remainder of the 40 ft.
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post #26 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 06:41 PM
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I prefer that the speakers be at least,slightly ahead of the TV - and at the front edge of the cabinet. The HTD speakers can be wall mounted - howeverif off the wall, I prefer at least 3 or more inches from the wall if you can.

wOriWS

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post #27 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

As stated before, I am a bit of a newb and the graphs and stats at given measurement levels mean nothing to me.
Looks like the graph has a good crossover area between the two speakers in my eye. If you say 30 hertz is bad bass, what value is good. That level two bass has very similar numbers.
Second, all stats you have given me are for the 2.0s. I am looking at the newer 2.1s. They have a little more bass response.
Why do I care if the satellites can't reach as low, if the bass can pick it up in my small space, and the satellites sound fantastic in their range?

No, most of us look for a crossover lower - like around 80 hz, for a better overall response.
Most will crossover NHT around 120 hz
The 2.1 does not really go any lower than the 2.0 - however the midrange tends to measure better
Satellites that tend to go lower, helps to avoid localization of the sub - and keeps male voices out of the sub.

NHT 2.1 SuperZero
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/attachments/loudspeakers/9992d1330123776-upgrade-nht-super-1-snag-033.png

The bottom line seems to be, that you want the NHT - so go for it, and enjoy it.

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post #28 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mttownse View Post

I ask this since the level 2s you recommend also reach the same low range of 30 hertz

in addition, my "room" is an end of a 40x13 room. The area being used as a theatre is 12x13.
One end if the room opens into the remainder of the 40 ft.

What if I got a 7.2 receiver and dual sub'd at a later date-once I have more money. I can get a sub ,
either the super 8 or level 2 sub, for low 200s.
I am recommending the Level Two speakers - however, I recommend the HSU sub over the Level
Two subwoofer - you do not have to brand match subs to the speakers.

The NHT doesn't have much below 34 hz - however, it may be enough for you

For your expanded listening area - it would be better to place your sub by your seating position.

I do not have measurements for the Level Two sub - however, it has a bigger woofer and a good box,
and I expect the sound pressure level to be higher than NHT.

Here is a subjective short take on the Level Two sub
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/69406-htd-level-2-subwoofers.html

Depending on the room, the HSU STF-2 can hit around 23 hz

You can dual sub at a later date if you desire - however, try to get a decent sub for now.

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post #29 of 48 Old 12-01-2013, 11:05 PM
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I had 5 NHT SZ 2.0s with a Cadence CSX-12 II subwoofer, powered by an Onkyo 709 in my 23x16x8 room and they sounded great. My wife didn't care for the gloss black finish, but not because of the looks but rather the upkeep. I now have Klipsch WB14s and a different sub, and I have to say, I believe the SZ 2.0s sounded better. If I were you, I would buy 5 NHT SZ 2.1s and a SVS PB-1000 sub.

To throw a monkey wrench into your options, you could go with 3 pairs of Micca MB42Xs for $240 and the SVS PB-100 for $500 and be money ahead..........Check out the Micca reviews, you will be surprised.

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post #30 of 48 Old 12-02-2013, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

No, most of us look for a crossover lower - like around 80 hz, for a better overall response.
Most will crossover NHT around 120 hz...

The THX recommended crossover for HT/surround is 80Hz, I believe that's where the number comes from. And with that crossover all the localized sound is still coming from the speakers.
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Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

...The bottom line seems to be, that you want the NHT - so go for it, and enjoy it.

+1 Lot's of people have and enjoy satellite style HT systems wink.gif
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...You can dual sub at a later date if you desire - however, try to get a decent sub for now.

+1 (again!)
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