The next step for my dedicated Home Theater? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

So over the last two years I have been slowly getting my dedicated home theater more and more in-line with what I always envisioned. The room is 20'x14'x8' with two rows of three seats (first row is 12' back from front, second row is 18' back). The screen is 133" (16x9 ratio). I just finished (finally) treating the room with Bass Traps and Acoustic Panels.

What I have:
- Anthem MRX700
- Klipsch RF-82ii (x2 for FL+FR)
- Klipsch RC-64ii
- Klipsch RS-52ii (x2 for SL+SR)
- x2 Rythmik F25 subs
- Sony VPL-HW30ES projector

When I first put this room together I had a Paradigm Monitor setup with a Paradigm Sub 25. I then moved up to Paradigm Signature speakers with the Sub 25. And then I went to the Klipsch Reference speakers I have now and just recently switched out the Sub 25 for the two Rythmik F25's. The reasoning for my switch to Klipsch was higher sensitivity/horn loaded speakers. I listen to absolutely no music and want just a pure cinema experience. That is also the reason for my switch to the Rythmik F25's (also, so I can continue adding subwoofers if I want in the future without cost being a problem).

But now I am left wondering: what COULD be next? Not necessarily that I feel I need to upgrade, but more wondering if I should/if there is a next step that is cost effective yet would continue yielding better and better sound for the experience I desire.

I have been looking at the Klipsch Professional Cinema speakers, along with JBL's equivalents, but am left realizing that I do not have enough room to get an acoustically transparent screen and put these types of speakers behind it.

So my next thought was something like the Klipsch THX speakers, as I could fit those in my room.....but then, looking at the specs compared to the Reference speakers I have, there doesn't seem to be any advantage.

JTR is also another consideration, although those are pretty expensive. Along with the Seaton line of speakers (not subwoofe). Again, expensive.

Any thoughts?
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 10:09 AM
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Random thought that doesn't involve scratching your current setup. Take it from 5 channel to 9 or 11. Front height, front wide, surround back. Could buy RF-7's for the front and move the 82 to wides. Then fill in from there.

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post #3 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auceny View Post

Random thought that doesn't involve scratching your current setup. Take it from 5 channel to 9 or 11. Front height, front wide, surround back. Could buy RF-7's for the front and move the 82 to wides. Then fill in from there.

I've thought about this but a few problems:
1.) The Anthem only supports 7.1
2.) I do not have enough room for Wides
3.) I do not have enough room for Rear Surrounds (the back row is only 1ft from the back wall)

All I could add is Heights.....but I had Height speakers in my old room and never did tell a difference with them on/with them off.
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 11:17 AM
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If you have 2 rows of seats you can still do 7.1 with rear surrounds. The back row may not benifit as much from them but I believe the front row will see a big improvement. I would do another pair of RS52ii's for rear speakers. You could also add 2 more F25 subs.

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post #5 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

If you have 2 rows of seats you can still do 7.1 with rear surrounds. The back row may not benifit as much from them but I believe the front row will see a big improvement. I would do another pair of RS52ii's for rear speakers. You could also add 2 more F25 subs.

I want both rows to benefit from the same sound overall, so I would feel guilty adding rears knowing only three seats are benefiting.

Also, I listen around -10dB below Reference (sometimes a little louder, sometimes not as loud, by about +/-3dB each way depending on the movie). Not sure if this tidbit of information would affect any recommendations if upgrading my speakers is the way to go.
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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A thought I have been kicking around:
Bringing the screen out a MAXIMUM of 1' from the front wall, getting an acoustic screen, and placing LCR behind it. But the LCR speakers would need to be less than 14" deep. Any high sensitivity/cinema "style" (compression/horn) speakers that would work for such an application?

Aside from that possibility, I keep kicking around the JTR speakers.....but can't quite see what they might offer over the Klipsch except for high sensitivity?
What about upgrading the RF-82ii's to RF-7ii's for just the increased sensitivity? Completely useless?
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

A thought I have been kicking around:
Bringing the screen out a MAXIMUM of 1'
from the front wall, getting an acoustic screen,
and placing LCR behind it. But the LCR speakers would need to be less than 14" deep. Any high sensitivity/cinema "style" (compression/horn) speakers that would work for such an application?

Aside from that possibility, I keep kicking around the JTR speakers.....but can't quite see what they might offer over the Klipsch except for high sensitivity?
What about upgrading the RF-82ii's to RF-7ii's for just the increased sensitivity? Completely useless?

I had your speaker set up and imo it's right their with the thx. If the thx is better it's not by much. I made the upgrade to the rf-7ii and it's a giant leap from the 82s. The 82s are nice but the 7s are special. Plus you have the matching center. But... If you have no use for the 82s and would have to sell them and take a loss. Plus the cost of 7s would be around 1800 to 2k. It's a lot to spend and some might not think the upgrade would be a good value.

I would get the 7s smile.gif

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post #8 of 21 Old 12-06-2013, 09:24 PM
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I know the feeling. You get done and you wonder what to do now lol. So I started another system (2ch with some Cornwalls) smile.gif

Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and RB-61 II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
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JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 06:22 AM
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fwiw , take a look at the chase home theater theater-10's newer version of the well liked sho-10's http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5570

i'm so laid back,i'm laid out
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smasher50 View Post

fwiw , take a look at the chase home theater theater-10's newer version of the well liked sho-10's http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5570

But could a bookshelf size speaker really compete with larger, more sensitive speakers like Klipsch RF-7ii's or JTR's?
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post #11 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

I had your speaker set up and imo it's right their with the thx. If the thx is better it's not by much. I made the upgrade to the rf-7ii and it's a giant leap from the 82s. The 82s are nice but the 7s are special. Plus you have the matching center. But... If you have no use for the 82s and would have to sell them and take a loss. Plus the cost of 7s would be around 1800 to 2k. It's a lot to spend and some might not think the upgrade would be a good value.

I would get the 7s smile.gif

My local dealer has an offer of $2400 for a pair of RF-7ii's Brand New (plus I have 0% interest free financing there for 2 years). But I am still hesitant whether merely upgrading in a speaker line is as good as upgrading to new speakers overall......
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

My local dealer has an offer of $2400 for a pair of RF-7ii's Brand New (plus I have 0% interest free financing there for 2 years). But I am still hesitant whether merely upgrading in a speaker line is as good as upgrading to new speakers overall......

Have you considering JTR speakers? I know the looks of them aren't for everyone but I do prefer my 228HT's over both the RF7-II/RC-64 and Klipsch Ultra 2 KL-650-THX setups that I've heard.

Edit...sorry I re-read your first post and see you have considered JTR, two 228HT's are also $2400 but with about $150 in shipping.

It cost me about $180 to have three of them shipped from JTR to Washington.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #13 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Have you considering JTR speakers? I know the looks of them aren't for everyone but I do prefer my 228HT's over both the RF7-II/RC-64 and Klipsch Ultra 2 KL-650-THX setups that I've heard.

Edit...sorry I re-read your first post and see you have considered JTR, two 228HT's are also $2400 but with about $150 in shipping.

It cost me about $180 to have three of them shipped from JTR to Washington.

I have been VERY interested in the JTR speakers.......but again, was just trying to figure out the difference they bring to the table over say the RF-7ii's, since they are both highly sensitive. Is there a big difference between compression drivers and horn-loaded tweeters?

Also, is the used market for JTR's non-existent? I notice there are never any listed on audiogon.
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post #14 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

I have been VERY interested in the JTR speakers.......but again, was just trying to figure out the difference they bring to the table over say the RF-7ii's, since they are both highly sensitive. Is there a big difference between compression drivers and horn-loaded tweeters?

Also, is the used market for JTR's non-existent? I notice there are never any listed on audiogon.

I personally found that at low volumes they both sounded great but the 228HT's were just a little be more clear and detailed, but found when things started to get louder the 228HT's started to pull away and the difference was more noticeable. I still liked the RF7-II's but they seemed a little too bright for me at higher volumes.

Of course the RF7's had more bass when used without a sub, but of course you would never do that with movie use so it doesn't make a difference IMO. There's no way around it the 228HT's are not designed to be used without a good quality sub.

You're right they don't pop up for sale very often and honestly I've never seen any of the speakers for sale on Audiogon. I've only ever seen a pair of Cap S2 subs for sale. You'll find most of the time guys don't usually sell their JTR speakers unless it's to upgrade to another JTR speaker and most of the time they sell them thru word of mouth to other forum members in the JTR thread.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, the other possible route, which has nothing to do with upgrading my speakers, is to upgrade my projector.

Decisions, decisions.
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post #16 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Well, the other possible route, which has nothing to do with upgrading my speakers, is to upgrade my projector.

Decisions, decisions.

What do you have for a projector? I have a pretty decent one but am going to hold off for a few more years so I upgraded my subs and speakers in 2013.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #17 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

What do you have for a projector? I have a pretty decent one but am going to hold off for a few more years so I upgraded my subs and speakers in 2013.

Sony VPL-HW30ES.......it's been an awesome projector for me but I have been hearing very good reviews about the new line of Sony projectors. And I keep telling myself I need to see the JVC line in action as well since I value black level over all else.

Idk. In all honesty, having just watched Battle Los Angeles and Tron Legacy today, I can't detect a negative with the sound I already have. The subs are what I finally wanted, the voices are clear and forward, and the rest of the movie soundtrack is as equally present. So it's literally me WONDERING what I might be missing out on, not necessarily what I know I am missing. Even upgrading to RF-7ii's as a quick route has me scratching my head wondering "do I really need to"? The Center speaker carries most of a soundtrack, while the subs take care of the low end.....what would I benefit from having slightly larger/more sensitive mains when my current mains only use half (at most) of what my Anthem MRX puts out per channel?
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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The JVC projos are awesome projectors. I don't know too many other units out there for the same money that offer the same performance.

If you want t o look at doing the LCRs behind an acoustically transparent screen (I suggest a weave screen), then I would tell you to look at the JBL 3677 cinema speakers.
A lot of other AVSers are using them and they are gaining popularity among the dedicated home theater crowd for being affordable and great sounding.

Here is a review on the JBL 3677 speakers
http://www.andrew-robinson-online.com/review-jbl-professional-3677-screen-channel-loudspeaker/
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-08-2013, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Sony VPL-HW30ES.......it's been an awesome projector for me but I have been hearing very good reviews about the new line of Sony projectors. And I keep telling myself I need to see the JVC line in action as well since I value black level over all else.

Idk. In all honesty, having just watched Battle Los Angeles and Tron Legacy today, I can't detect a negative with the sound I already have. The subs are what I finally wanted, the voices are clear and forward, and the rest of the movie soundtrack is as equally present. So it's literally me WONDERING what I might be missing out on, not necessarily what I know I am missing. Even upgrading to RF-7ii's as a quick route has me scratching my head wondering "do I really need to"? The Center speaker carries most of a soundtrack, while the subs take care of the low end.....what would I benefit from having slightly larger/more sensitive mains when my current mains only use half (at most) of what my Anthem MRX puts out per channel?

If you're happy then why worry about it. It's not like you don't already have a great setup. Did I personally think my 228HT's as LCR's sound better then the RF7-II's/RC-64 setup that I auditioned? Yes I did. Would it be worth upgrading to the 228HT's if I already had your setup? Probably not.

If I was starting from having no speakers personally I'd take the JTR's over your current setup, I'd also take it over the RF7/RC-64's I've heard too. But honestly if I had your setup I probably couldn't see myself selling it to switch to JTR's unless I could get really good money selling it used.

And by no means am I putting down Klipsch speakers, I like them. I just like the JTR's better.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #20 of 21 Old 12-08-2013, 06:43 AM
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You certainly don't need an upgrade for overall SPL since you can attain 10 dB below reference easily now. The RF-7ii might give you a better sound, but at a pretty big cost. Another way to go is the Klipsch Heritage line, which will also give you a bigger, more cinema-like, sound. But it doesn't sound like you have the room for it.

My room is only 18.5 feet deep and yet I have two rows and the second is still a good 3 feet from the back wall (for 7.1), so are you sure you don't have room for 7.1 or an AT screen?

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post #21 of 21 Old 12-08-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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You certainly don't need an upgrade for overall SPL since you can attain 10 dB below reference easily now. The RF-7ii might give you a better sound, but at a pretty big cost. Another way to go is the Klipsch Heritage line, which will also give you a bigger, more cinema-like, sound. But it doesn't sound like you have the room for it.

My room is only 18.5 feet deep and yet I have two rows and the second is still a good 3 feet from the back wall (for 7.1), so are you sure you don't have room for 7.1 or an AT screen?

I can squeeze an AT screen into my room but I would only have around 18" behind the screen to place speakers. I think there are a few JBL and Klipsch Cinema options that would work....but I have no idea how to find pricing on them.

Edit: Just read a personal review of the JBL 3677's which also included a link to an authorized seller....$887 per speaker. That's an incredible price! That puts the AT screen at a very reasonable possibility now!
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