Is it worth upgrading to floor standing speakers? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 108 Old 01-13-2014, 08:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Look at the text under the graph.  They are claiming that that is the output at three meters, not one.  Two meters closer and it should be substantially louder.
They measured it at 3 meters, extrapolating the result to 1w/1m. If you measure at 1m the result isn't accurate, especially with a 3 way speaker, as the individual wave fronts are not fully integrated at only 1 meter. The comment under the graph is printed next to the graph in the original Klipsch document. You should have no problem finding it; I did.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 108 Old 01-13-2014, 10:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
charmerci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reference_head View Post

Cornwalls are some amazing speakers. And they sell cheap on the used market. smile.gif

I guess $1K is cheap for some.....not me!


(I assume you're talking compared to a new set.)
charmerci is offline  
post #93 of 108 Old 01-13-2014, 10:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Reference_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,908
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

I guess $1K is cheap for some.....not me!


(I assume you're talking compared to a new set.)
Yes just talking value. I paid around that for mine but you can find them for half that or less. And their is still replacement parts and upgrades available. It's like they have a cult following. ( Klipsch heritage) . After owning a pair I can see why smile.gif

Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and RB-61 II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
SC-55 elite and B&K 200.7 S2
JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
Oppo BDP-103 9 ATS Acoustic panels
Reference_head is offline  
post #94 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 05:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

The original Cornwall is rated at 98.5 at 1W and 1m on their web site.
The Cornwall II is rated at 101 dB.
The Cornwall III is rated at 102 dB.

I have an old brochure and the rating was 98.5 dB at 4 feet, which would actually be 100.2 dB at 1 m. The brochure has to date from at least 1985, so must be the original Cornwall.

Well, I found a Cornwall II test on files.computeraudiophile.com that says:


Broadband Pink Noise was applied to loudspeaker terminals. The applied voltage was 2.83 V which correspond to electrical power of 1W at 8 ohm (nominal impedance).

The loudspeaker sensitivity is defined as sound pressure level (SPL) at specified distance 1.21 meter (4 feet). The specified value for Klipsch Cornwall is 98.5 dB/1W/4 ft which corresponds to 100 dB/1W/1m.

Measured sensitivity was exactly as specified: 98.5 dB at 4 feet (121 cm), broadband pink noise. It was quite impressive to see SPL meter needle "dancing" + / - 1 dB around 98.5 dB value. This fact contributes to conclusion that 14 years old Cornwalls show no noticeable degradation of electroacoustic parameter whatsoever.
JerryLove likes this.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

My HT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Peter

psgcdn is offline  
post #95 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 08:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Reference_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,908
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Of course bill will dispute that because it don't support his bs.
JerryLove likes this.

Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and RB-61 II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
SC-55 elite and B&K 200.7 S2
JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
Oppo BDP-103 9 ATS Acoustic panels
Reference_head is offline  
post #96 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 09:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,665
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1347
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

Well, I found a Cornwall II test on files.computeraudiophile.com
I've seen that. It's an in-room measurement, not half-space anechoic. That's simply not how speakers are measured, unless what you want to know is the in-room response. And it does not agree with the Klipsch chart, which is half-space anechoic.
Quote:
Of course bill will dispute that because it don't support his bs
Klipsch has a chart that shows one thing, and right next to it a written description that says something entirely different. Why? Because the chart came from the engineering department, and the spec claims were written by the marketing department. If the marketeer who wrote the ad copy actually knew how to read that chart and knew his specs conflicted with it he probably figured 'So what? Our customers don't know how to read an SPL chart'. If that was the case proof of that theory abounds in this thread. In my line of work not knowing how to read an SPL chart isn't an option. In your line of work, whatever that is, probably not so much. cool.gif

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is online now  
post #97 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
psgcdn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prov. of Quebec, Canada
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 199
So please, post a link to the easy-to-find chart; I couldn't find it.

Remember, it's called "AV Science"!

My HT
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Peter

psgcdn is offline  
post #98 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:19 AM
Member
 
Marantz guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: West Texas
Posts: 78
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Well, let's see. The original topic was "Is it worth upgrading to floor standing speakers" & you guys have been off on a tangent for how many pages? Do any of you really think you are going to convince any of the others?? Nothing better to do with your time? confused.gif

For the sake of anyone who might have been interested in the original topic, how about calling it a draw & give it a break.
Marantz guy is offline  
post #99 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 10:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
nothing wrong going with towers and you save $150 for stands. i like towers for the aesthetics alone. and before this thread got derailed there were some good points going both ways.
mark62 is offline  
post #100 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 11:03 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marantz guy View Post

Well, let's see. The original topic was "Is it worth upgrading to floor standing speakers" & you guys have been off on a tangent for how many pages? Do any of you really think you are going to convince any of the others?? Nothing better to do with your time? confused.gif

For the sake of anyone who might have been interested in the original topic, how about calling it a draw & give it a break.

So you are making the rules now?
FMW is online now  
post #101 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark62 View Post

nothing wrong going with towers and you save $150 for stands. i like towers for the aesthetics alone. and before this thread got derailed there were some good points going both ways.

 

You can get good stands for a little less than $150 (right now, on eBay, you can get some steel Lovan stands for a little less, that should last a lifetime if not abused), but it is, as you point out, worth remembering that one needs to stick bookshelf speakers on something, and if one does not already have that something, then its cost needs to be factored in.  However, if one upgrades later on, one can probably continue to use the same stands as before, so stands can be a one-time cost (if one buys good ones).  The difference in cost between bookshelf speakers and floorstanding speakers can be less than that at the extreme low end, but much higher at the high end of things.  So that, too, will be important when thinking about which way to go.

 

We can also consider the issue of whether one is ever planning on moving, and what is easier to move.

 

As for aesthetics, opinions would go both ways on that, depending on whose opinion it is.  I personally generally prefer the look of bookshelf speakers on stands to tower speakers, but I would never choose one or the other based on that.  In my case, my bookshelf speakers retailed for $1500/pair.  The tower models that had the same tweeter and midbass driver but added a larger woofer were about twice as much.  I could buy crazy expensive stands and still come out ahead with the bookshelf speakers with that kind of situation.  (I am, after all, using subwoofers for the deep bass anyway.)  But if we were looking at really cheap speakers, it could be a good idea to go with towers, depending on the particular deals one can get.


God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #102 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 12:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

You can get good stands for a little less than $150 (right now, on eBay, you can get some steel Lovan stands for a little less, that should last a lifetime if not abused), but it is, as you point out, worth remembering that one needs to stick bookshelf speakers on something, and if one does not already have that something, then its cost needs to be factored in.  However, if one upgrades later on, one can probably continue to use the same stands as before, so stands can be a one-time cost (if one buys good ones).  The difference in cost between bookshelf speakers and floorstanding speakers can be less than that at the extreme low end, but much higher at the high end of things.  So that, too, will be important when thinking about which way to go.

We can also consider the issue of whether one is ever planning on moving, and what is easier to move.

As for aesthetics, opinions would go both ways on that, depending on whose opinion it is.  I personally generally prefer the look of bookshelf speakers on stands to tower speakers, but I would never choose one or the other based on that.  In my case, my bookshelf speakers retailed for $1500/pair.  The tower models that had the same tweeter and midbass driver but added a larger woofer were about twice as much.  I could buy crazy expensive stands and still come out ahead with the bookshelf speakers with that kind of situation.  (I am, after all, using subwoofers for the deep bass anyway.)  But if we were looking at really cheap speakers, it could be a good idea to go with towers, depending on the particular deals one can get.

agreed....
mark62 is offline  
post #103 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

So you are making the rules now?

No I am and we are tired of you going from thread to thread doing this.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is offline  
post #104 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 01:00 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 710
Doing what? I have a very low opinion of what you write yet I don't seek to silence you.
FMW is online now  
post #105 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Doing what?


insulting people and making every thread a forum for yourself to spread your cheap audio agenda


Quote:
I have a very low opinion of what you write

Now that is heartbreaking yet I was able to smile sincerely and proudly upon reading this.


Quote:
yet I don't seek to silence you.

nor should you as I comply with the spirit and rules of the board

Listen you have your place, you are a smart dude as far as audio goes. Just back off with the agenda stuff.

If you feel a need to reply maybe private me so as we don't bother this thread anymore.

peace brother

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is offline  
post #106 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 02:46 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 710
You don't understand. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm trying to look out for the interests of beginners who should hear the truth. I don't have an agenda. I don't care what people buy. I just care that they get exposed to the the truth before they make their decision. If they disagree with me and buy a $5000 amplifier it's OK with me. I've done it myself. I just think they should know that, except in unusual circumstances it won't help their system sound better. What I post is test results from a couple of years of bias controlled tests. It isn't anything I invented nor is it opinion. It is just facts. If you want to debate the facts, debate away. But don't tell me what I should or shouldn't write..
FMW is online now  
post #107 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 03:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 258
Let's argue about the topic of the thread.  For those who have forgotten, we are considering systems in which there is a subwoofer, and considering whether to buy bookshelf speakers or tower speakers.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMW View Post
 
+1. I'm Primarily a music listener. My system is used perhaps 10% of the time for movie watching. The towers provide three advantages for music listening in my view. 1. You can enjoy music without a subwoofer if you like. 2. You can integrate a sub to get more bass extension and support. 3. You dont' have to buy stands. The towers are often at the right height. The EMP E55 are certainly at the right height. While towers may not be necessary for home theater use, they represent no downside and, in my view, are a better choice for stereo music listening. Using a sub/sat setup is good advice but certainly not a rule.

 

 

With 1, why would you want to listen to music without the deepest bass?  It makes as much sense to me to listen without your subwoofer as it would make to disconnect the woofer in a "full range" system and listen that way.  Of course, you may do that if you please, but why?  (One might also add, if one wanted to do so, one can do the same if one has bookshelf speakers, and listen without the subwoofer.  That also seems pointless, but, if one wishes to do so, one is free to do so.)

 

Regarding 2, do you mean to suggest that you cannot "integrate a sub to get more bass extension and support" with bookshelf speakers?  You don't seriously mean that, do you?  But if you do not mean that, then what you are saying is not an advantage of a tower speaker over a bookshelf speaker.

 

Regarding 3, that is an advantage.  But depending on the prices we are discussing, it may very well be a trivial one.  At the extreme budget end of things, it may be cheaper to get tower speakers than a bookshelf speaker and a speaker stand, but once one goes up a bit, the price strongly favors going with a bookshelf speaker, and with the higher the price, the more it favors the bookshelf speaker.  And, of course, once one has a good set of stands, one can use them for life, and not replace them when one upgrades the speakers.  Good stands can be had for under $150 (right now, some new all-steel Lovan stands can be had on ebay delivered for under $150, in more than one size).

 

My reasons for favoring bookshelf speakers have already been given, but I will quote myself for your convenience:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
 
 
If you have a good sub, floor standing speakers don't offer a lot, sonically.
...

 

I absolutely agree.  If we are talking about spending the same amount of money, instead of towers, one can either buy bookshelf speakers from a higher line, and therefore improve the performance for the frequencies above the crossover to the subwoofer, or one can spend more on a better sub, and therefore improve the deep bass.  I think that, in most cases, it is a mistake to buy tower speakers when one is buying speakers for a home theater.

 

I think that the reason that people often imagine otherwise, is that they do not compare based on paying the same amount, but instead compare tower speakers with bookshelf speakers from the same line (which are cheaper) and the same subwoofer.  That is not a fair comparison, as it is not the same budget.

 

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #108 of 108 Old 01-14-2014, 03:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Futuristic London
Posts: 4,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

You don't understand. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm trying to look out for the interests of beginners who should hear the truth.


LOL, how selfless.

Listen, stop over here and be useful.

What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got little save pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angel trumpets and devil trombones. You are invited.
eljr is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Klipsch Rf 82 Ii Reference Series Floorstanding Loudspeaker Black , Yamaha Rx V375 5 1 Channel Av Receiver
Gear in this thread - V375 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off