Infinity Primus C25 Tweeter repair - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been driving myself nuts trying to figure out why my lovely Infinity Primus C25 center channel was sounding like absolute crap.  After hours of adjusting on the receiver and finally dismantling the speaker to do some spot testing, I have found that the tweeter on the unit has completely stopped working for no apparent reason.  The wiring is fine and the board appears to be sending info to the speaker terminals so the problem is with the tweeter itself.  I don't see any obvious physical damage that would cause the unit to simply not work at all.  Not even a hint of vibration from it.

 

I'm reasonably handy and have repaired speaker cabinets/speakers before.  Not a big deal as long as I can find a decent replacement.  As far as I can tell, this is a tiny 3/4" dome tweeter.

 

  

 

 

The rest of the unit is in great shape so I'll be damned if I'm just going to toss it over a little tweeter.  Anyone know where I could purchase a replacement tweeter that would fit this unit?  

 

Any advice and/or links would be greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robross0606 View Post

I've been driving myself nuts trying to figure out why my lovely Infinity Primus C25 center channel was sounding like absolute crap.  After hours of adjusting on the receiver and finally dismantling the speaker to do some spot testing, I have found that the tweeter on the unit has completely stopped working for no apparent reason.  The wiring is fine and the board appears to be sending info to the speaker terminals so the problem is with the tweeter itself.  I don't see any obvious physical damage that would cause the unit to simply not work at all.  Not even a hint of vibration from it.

I'm reasonably handy and have repaired speaker cabinets/speakers before.  Not a big deal as long as I can find a decent replacement.  As far as I can tell, this is a tiny 3/4" dome tweeter.

 
 



The rest of the unit is in great shape so I'll be damned if I'm just going to toss it over a little tweeter.  Anyone know where I could purchase a replacement tweeter that would fit this unit?  

Any advice and/or links would be greatly appreciated.

You can try contacting Infinity via their web site:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?Parts=PC250BE&BrandId=INF&MarketId=HOM

After that it goes downhill very fast. This speaker was not that expensive when new and it's given you some fair service. its easy to spend more than it is worth in time and out-of-pocket expense to get a good repair job of it.
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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To replace a tweeter?  As long as I can find a replacement that fits size-wise, this would be as simple as some speaker glue.  Removal of the old one took all of 10 minutes.  I can't imagine a replacement tweeter costing more than $30.

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post #4 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robross0606 View Post

To replace a tweeter?  As long as I can find a replacement that fits size-wise, this would be as simple as some speaker glue.  Removal of the old one took all of 10 minutes.  I can't imagine a replacement tweeter costing more than $30.

I can't imagine a tweeter selected only based only on physical size sounding as good as the original.
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I was pretty much dead-on.  Harman has this part:

 

85DA20AJ-DT02 Tweeter for Primus360 (USE DT04) $22.72 1/7/2014

 

Thanks for the link!

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post #6 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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In my experience, the primary cost in a speaker is in the enclosure and not really the speakers themselves.  As I've shown, Harman offers this replacement speaker for less than $30.  How much sonic fidelity do you think you can squeeze out of a 3/4" tweeter that it would warrant more than $30 for a replacement?

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post #7 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robross0606 View Post

In my experience, the primary cost in a speaker is in the enclosure and not really the speakers themselves.  As I've shown, Harman offers this replacement speaker for less than $30.  How much sonic fidelity do you think you can squeeze out of a 3/4" tweeter that it would warrant more than $30 for a replacement?

Tweeters have physical properties such as efficiency, impedance curve and low frequency extension that will make them sound vastly different when installed in different speaker systems. Those are the three most significant parameters that you need to match fairly closely, besides the obvious one - physical size and configuration.

Its not about more or less sound quality - its more like getting the right piston to fit your engine. A piston from a Ferrari might be a better piston on the cosmic scale, but it isn't even close to being the right size to fit my my Ford.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-07-2014, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I'm aware of all that.  That's why I'm here looking for decent substitutes.  I believe the question was more about the PRICE and TIME than qualitative measurements.  I'm responding to "its easy to spend more than it is worth in time and out-of-pocket expense to get a good repair job of it".  Was  interested in knowing how the replacement process could get out of hand in time and/or money for a 3/4" tweeter when the original replacement cost of the part is $24 + shipping and some speaker glue.

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-04-2014, 03:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robross0606 View Post
Yes, I'm aware of all that.  That's why I'm here looking for decent substitutes.  I believe the question was more about the PRICE and TIME than qualitative measurements.  I'm responding to "its easy to spend more than it is worth in time and out-of-pocket expense to get a good repair job of it".  Was  interested in knowing how the replacement process could get out of hand in time and/or money for a 3/4" tweeter when the original replacement cost of the part is $24 + shipping and some speaker glue.
Well I found myself in your shoes. The tweeter on one of my PC351s went bye-bye. The Harman site I mentioned lists the part but pretty well promises to never have one to sell.

As close as I have been able to find on the market is this driver:

Vifa OX20SC00-04



It is not a perfect fit. The mounting hole in the PC351 bezel is 25.6 mm, and the Viva tweeter has an outside diameter of 30 mm, but I guess that is why God made Dremyl tools.

The tweeter crossover may need some tweaking but I'm equipped to do that.
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-09-2014, 02:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Well I found myself in your shoes. The tweeter on one of my PC351s went bye-bye. The Harman site I mentioned lists the part but pretty well promises to never have one to sell.

As close as I have been able to find on the market is this driver:

Vifa OX20SC00-04



It is not a perfect fit. The mounting hole in the PC351 bezel is 25.6 mm, and the Viva tweeter has an outside diameter of 30 mm, but I guess that is why God made Dremyl tools.

The tweeter crossover may need some tweaking but I'm equipped to do that.
The next surprise was when I found that one other PC351 had the same failure. I use these as LCR speakers and only the center speaker seems to have survive undamaged after about a year's use, pretty hard at times.

The status of the project is that the replacement drivers arrived, and the mechanical replacement is complete, I think.

The unhappy surprise is that the tweeter is part of the bezel for the tweeter and midranges. I tried unbonding it with a heat gun but even while using foil to protect the plastic, I never really got things hot enough to remove the tweeter very cleanly.

For the second speaker I used a vibrating utility tool to slice the guts of the tweeter off of the bezel with a horizontal cut that left about 1/8" of the plastic around it on the tweeter.

In either case I smoothed out the mounting surface with the Dremyl tool and a coarse sandpaper drum.

I used the same tool to enlarge the hole for the new driver to poke through while successfully avoiding damaging the plastic grille over the front. There is a ridge on the front of the speaker that sticks out about 1/8 that I wanted to have sitting on the bezel. There is a groove in the back of the bezel that is about 1/4" larger than the old tweeter that is a good guide for cutting the enlarged hole.

I then bonded the new driver to the old bezel with a thin rod of plumber's epoxy (like modelling clay) being careful to keep the surround of the tweeter free, and positioning the body of the tweeter so that the dome was clear of the plastic grilles. I used a thin cardboard shim to test the clearance.

I applied a heavier epoxy rod around the whole tweeter to further strengthen its attachment and molded it to cover a wide area for more bonding.

I put the speaker back together and did some casual testing. It sounds a lot better with response above 3 KHz! I think it is a little hot.

Bottom line, this speaker seems prone to tweeter failures and they are not exactly serviceable given that Harmon is not selling tweeter/bezel assemblies.

Next stage: power on tests and measurements.
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-24-2014, 03:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Test information about the Inifinty Primus Tweeter and comparison to a commercial near equivalent

Primus P363 tweeter (shared with other members of the series)





Vifa 0x20sc00-04 tweeter - proposed replacement

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-25-2014, 12:11 PM
 
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Frequency response of PC 351 with OX20SC00-04 replacement tweeter (not OT19NC000 as shown on illustration in error)
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Last edited by arnyk; 08-25-2014 at 12:42 PM.
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-25-2014, 02:12 PM
 
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And since PC351 impedance curves seem to be a bit hard to find..



This is with the Vifa tweeter, but given the similarity of the vifa and stock tweeter's impedance curve, I don't expect much difference.
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post #14 of 24 Old 09-02-2014, 03:54 PM
 
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PC351 Comparisons

Frequency response, Stock versus Vifa tweeter

Red line stock tweeter
Blue line Vifa tweeter



Impedance curves

Vifa tweeter



Stock tweeter

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post #15 of 24 Old 10-09-2014, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
PC351 Comparisons

Frequency response, Stock versus Vifa tweeter

Red line stock tweeter
Blue line Vifa tweeter



Impedance curves

Vifa tweeter



Stock tweeter

so...in the end...would you recommend this tweeter for a primus replacement?

i have been putting if off for a while now...and now i have 3 that is bad.
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post #16 of 24 Old 10-11-2014, 08:22 AM
 
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so...in the end...would you recommend this tweeter for a primus replacement?

i have been putting if off for a while now...and now i have 3 that is bad.
Yes. I recommend the Vifa OX20SC00-04. However it has slightly different dimensions (approx. 80 mm diameter versus 75) , and will take some cutting and epoxying in order to install. My Dremyl tool was busy!

I used plumber's epoxy which is like modelling clay to reattach it.

I recommend spacing the dome from Infinity's baffle with a shim cut from a matchbook cover.

My impression is that there is hardly any audible difference - maybe a bit smoother and more extended.

Last edited by arnyk; 10-11-2014 at 08:30 AM.
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs down I'm baaaack

Well, after placing this order LAST FEBRUARY and thinking I was golden, Harmon Kardon strung me along for AN ENTIRE YEAR telling me this item was backordered. Just called again today and had a lovely Indian fellow tell me the order had been cancelled and I would have to call back Monday to get a refund after they kept my money for a freakin' YEAR.

Needless to say, I will never buy a Harmon Kardon or Infinity product again. Now, that being said, I would still like to salvage this center channel if possible and it looks like Infinity has completely abandoned this product with no recommended replacement. Is the Vifa OX20SC00-04 still the only recommended option or has anyone found a more suitable replacement with a better fit?
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:01 AM
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You could buy a p143 for $60 take the tweeter out.

There is a replacement center the pc251.

■ Samsung (PN51F8500)
■ Yamaha (RX-V475)
■ Pioneer
(BS22+C22)
■ SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
■ PS4□PS3 Slim 120gb□Xbox One
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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For $60 I could do anything. I'm looking to repair this one, not buy another one.
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:20 AM
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You can do anything for $60?. 143 is a small bookshelf speaker take the tweeter out and put it in the c25 a new center is $150. You wanted options that's one.

■ Samsung (PN51F8500)
■ Yamaha (RX-V475)
■ Pioneer
(BS22+C22)
■ SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
■ PS4□PS3 Slim 120gb□Xbox One
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks,Ted, but a replacement for this center is not 151 unless you're looking at original MSRP. I hear you, but respectfully disagree and don't think your suggestion is a reasonable option when a replacement tweeter costs $20.
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post #22 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:28 AM
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I get its not great $60 for just the tweeter the point is that's all you can do. Unless you find a used primus any primus will have the same tweeter and use that. And the replacement is an entire new model center channel not just a tweeter. Found a new center on amazon for $144.

■ Samsung (PN51F8500)
■ Yamaha (RX-V475)
■ Pioneer
(BS22+C22)
■ SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
■ PS4□PS3 Slim 120gb□Xbox One

Last edited by Ted Sheckler; 02-28-2015 at 10:34 AM.
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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People on here have already identified a replacement tweeter. I'm simply asking if anyone found a better option than that tweeter.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-28-2015, 10:53 AM
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Parts express has one but I'm not sure it will fit. Used primus is a good option.

■ Samsung (PN51F8500)
■ Yamaha (RX-V475)
■ Pioneer
(BS22+C22)
■ SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
■ PS4□PS3 Slim 120gb□Xbox One

Last edited by Ted Sheckler; 02-28-2015 at 11:02 AM.
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