klipsch THX or B&W Diamond - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 01-14-2014, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a decicated HT with the Klipsch THX U2 speaker system. I chose those speakers because of the good reviews and I could get them
good price at that time.

In my living room I had the B&W 805D speakers but sold them when I started my HT project. I really loved those speakers.

Now I cannot stop thinking what if my HT would be equiped with B&W diamond speakers!! 804D or 803D for the front and the inwalls CI 800 series for the
surround. I have now also the Klipsch THX inwalls so would be easier to fit them in.

It's not that i'm unhappy with the sound I have now but I can't stop thinking how it would be with Diamond speakers.

Would I get a fuller and richer sound with the Diamonds?

Would I miss out on something if I would change to Diamonds?

Any advice would be welcome, thanks.
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post #2 of 36 Old 01-14-2014, 06:30 AM
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You'd be missing money in your pocket, and possibly some dynamics.

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post #3 of 36 Old 01-15-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone else?
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post #4 of 36 Old 01-15-2014, 10:13 AM
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Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

For HT I would be utterly happy with Klipsch THX Ultra2 speakers.

Don't waste your money.

IMO, you are not missing anything that the 805D has, except the higher price. biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 36 Old 01-15-2014, 10:45 AM
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Is there something missing from before?

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post #6 of 36 Old 01-15-2014, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think someting is missing, it's just different. It seems like the 80XD speakers are more detailed. I just would like to
have the best possible sound for a "certain budget".

I repeat, the Klipsch THX are giving me close to "cinema sound" so no complaints but...........like so many people on this
forum I would like to get the best possible SQ. Ofcourse I don't have unlimited budget either smile.gif
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post #7 of 36 Old 01-15-2014, 08:24 PM
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The B&W's wouldn't be as capable HT speakers, so I'd say no.
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post #8 of 36 Old 01-16-2014, 07:33 AM
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Disclaimer: I have heard the B&Ws but not the Klipsch THX Ultra system, at least not long enough to comment (few minutes at a dealer, though I have heard many other Klipsch systems over the years). I do have a friend with 803D's, HTM2D, and B&W subs and surrounds so I have heard that system several times.

The B&W's are not as efficient but I would certainly not say a pair of 803D's matched with their big center speaker (HTM2D) would not be "as capable". The sound will be very different due to the differences in drivers and basic design philosophy, and of course 803D's will go much deeper than the Klipsch KL-650's. You would be out of pocket about 10x the $$$, a significant concern for many. Only you can decide if the sound is worth it.

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post #9 of 36 Old 01-16-2014, 11:33 AM
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Since you already have the Klipsch system and are happy I'd say leave it alone. If you were building new, I'd say the B&W. I personally can't stand Klipsch speakers, they always sound so harsh to me.

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post #10 of 36 Old 01-16-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post

I don't think someting is missing, it's just different. It seems like the 80XD speakers are more detailed. I just would like to
have the best possible sound for a "certain budget".

I repeat, the Klipsch THX are giving me close to "cinema sound" so no complaints but...........like so many people on this
forum I would like to get the best possible SQ. Ofcourse I don't have unlimited budget either smile.gif

More detailed from movies?

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post #11 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 04:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by adupree View Post

Since you already have the Klipsch system and are happy I'd say leave it alone. If you were building new, I'd say the B&W. I personally can't stand Klipsch speakers, they always sound so harsh to me.

A lot has to do with the processor. When I changed my Onkyo 5508 to the Marantz 8801 I had the same problem. The speakers suddenly sounded harsh. I was using THX processing on the Onkyo and the speakers were sounding perfect.
There is no THX processing on the Marantz so I first thought I did a big mistake by changing the pre-amp. Apperently on the Marantz it's called Cinema EQ, this is giving the same effect then THX processing. From then on no more harsch sound.
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post #12 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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More detailed from movies?

Especially the music in movies.
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post #13 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post

A lot has to do with the processor. When I changed my Onkyo 5508 to the Marantz 8801 I had the same problem. The speakers suddenly sounded harsh. I was using THX processing on the Onkyo and the speakers were sounding perfect.
There is no THX processing on the Marantz so I first thought I did a big mistake by changing the pre-amp. Apperently on the Marantz it's called Cinema EQ, this is giving the same effect then THX processing. From then on no more harsch sound.

The processor only affects it so much. The sound characteristic of being harsh has more to do with the fact that they are horn speakers.

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post #14 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 08:17 AM
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First, the Klipsch THX ultra 2 are not harsh speakers and don't sound like their other speakers. Second, THX processing rolls off the highs so it is why you experience what you do. Do the Klipsch do anything better than the B&W? Like dynamics or bigger sound stage?

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post #15 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 08:28 AM
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The processor only affects it so much. The sound characteristic of being harsh has more to do with the fact that they are horn speakers.
They're not horn speakers. They do have horn loaded tweeters.
Horn loaded tweeters are no more 'harsh' than any other. 'Harsh' is a term generally used by the layman to describe high THD, and where THD is concerned a well designed horn loaded tweeter has considerably lower THD than direct radiating tweeters. That said, not all horn loaded tweeters are well designed, nor are all the speakers loaded with them, so there are examples of speakers with horn loaded tweeters, mostly at low price points, that do sound harsh. But there are plenty of low price point direct radiating tweeter cabs that sound harsh too.
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They're not horn speakers. They do have horn loaded tweeters.
Horn loaded tweeters are no more 'harsh' than any other. 'Harsh' is a term generally used by the layman to describe high THD, and where THD is concerned a well designed horn loaded tweeter has considerably lower THD than direct radiating tweeters. That said, not all horn loaded tweeters are well designed, nor are all the speakers loaded with them, so there are examples of speakers with horn loaded tweeters, mostly at low price points, that do sound harsh. But there are plenty of low price point direct radiating tweeter cabs that sound harsh too.

I'm assuming that most people would understand I was referring to the tweeters. Harsh, bright, piercing; these are all descriptions which are used in describing top-end. THD is more of a warm/tonal characteristic. Don't get me wrong, I certainly love some speakers with horn tweets, like L-Acoustic, Danley, Meyer Sound.

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post #17 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 11:57 AM
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I'm assuming that most people would understand I was referring to the tweeters. Harsh, bright, piercing; these are all descriptions which are used in describing top-end. THD is more of a warm/tonal characteristic.
Harmonic distortion can result in 'warmth' when it's manifested in the midrange. But it's always heard as a harsh, edgy sound when it occurs in the frequencies where tweeters operate.
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Don't get me wrong, I certainly love some speakers with horn tweets, like L-Acoustic, Danley, Meyer Sound.
That takes the wind out of your own sails. cool.gif
It's not horn loading a tweeter that accounts for harshness. THD is directly related to diaphragm excursion, and horn loaded tweeters have far lower diaphragm excursion than any other tweeter type. But there are other factors that enter into the equation, so if a tweeter sounds bad it's not because it's horn loaded, it's because it's a bad tweeter.

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post #18 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 01:53 PM
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[/quote]
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That takes the wind out of your own sails. cool.gif
It's not horn loading a tweeter that accounts for harshness. THD is directly related to diaphragm excursion, and horn loaded tweeters have far lower diaphragm excursion than any other tweeter type. But there are other factors that enter into the equation, so if a tweeter sounds bad it's not because it's horn loaded, it's because it's a bad tweeter.

Not really (should have worded it dif. said Klipsch), what I'm saying is that not all horns sound like that but Klipsch certainly do. How does THD correlate to excursion, I've never heard this before and am always looking for knowledge biggrin.gif . Excursion relates to throw and freq ability. THD is about freq multiples.

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post #19 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 03:47 PM
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How does THD correlate to excursion, I've never heard this before and am always looking for knowledge biggrin.gif . Excursion relates to throw and freq ability. THD is about freq multiples.
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeaker_papers/klipsch_modulation_distortion_article_1.pdf
http://www.readresearch.co.uk/loudspeaker_papers/klipsch_modulation_distortion_article_2.pdf

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post #20 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 05:29 PM
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Not really (should have worded it dif. said Klipsch), what I'm saying is that not all horns sound like that but Klipsch certainly do.

Gotta love these brand generalizations. So you've heard all Klipsch-made horns? Lots of people rave about the KPT-402; does it sound harsh too? rolleyes.gif

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post #21 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 06:31 PM
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post #22 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 06:56 PM
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Gotta love these brand generalizations. So you've heard all Klipsch-made horns? Lots of people rave about the KPT-402; does it sound harsh too? rolleyes.gif

I have heard many of their speakers and feel they are all bright. I can't say I have or have not heard those particular ones, so I can't say yes or no. But I also can't find much stuff where people are raving about them. rolleyes.gif

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post #23 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 07:14 PM
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Anyone else?
Well the B&W speakers will cost a lot more, but I can understand preferring them.
If spending the money for the B&W speakers does not cause you any financial hardship I see nothing wrong with making the switch.
The sound will certainly be different. Whether that sound is better or worse or just different would be for you to decide.

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post #24 of 36 Old 01-17-2014, 07:26 PM
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I have heard many of their speakers and feel they are all bright. I can't say I have or have not heard those particular ones, so I can't say yes or no. But I also can't find much stuff where people are raving about them. rolleyes.gif

If you had seen them, I think you would know. They are hard to miss at 41.5" wide. They sit on top of the Jubilee.

So you are generalizing on the brand based on a sub-sample. I doubt that the Synergy, Reference, THX, Heritage, Cinema lineups all sound the same within the lineups, much less between them.

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The horns in these Klipsch two ways like thx and reference are a mid and tweet horn. They xo in the 1-1.5khz range. So they are more than just tweet loaded horn speaker.

If it was just a tweet horn it would xo around 6khz not 1ish A 3 way horn speaker for example like the cornwall3 mid xo is 800 only a little lower than what most of the good two way speakers they build.

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post #26 of 36 Old 01-18-2014, 01:00 PM
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If you had seen them, I think you would know. They are hard to miss at 41.5" wide. They sit on top of the Jubilee.

So you are generalizing on the brand based on a sub-sample. I doubt that the Synergy, Reference, THX, Heritage, Cinema lineups all sound the same within the lineups, much less between them.

I very well could have heard them, and never seen them. They would have been behind a movie screen. Also, I don't feel I'm generalizing based on a sub-sample, I've heard many Klipsch systems whether they were personal systems or in theaters. I feel that they are harsh.

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Theaters are hardly an audiophile-type best setting, don't you think? And you haven't heard the 402 horn used as a tweeter in the theater; it's only used 2-way in homes.

You may not feel that you are generalizing on the brand based on a sub-sample, but that's exactly what you are doing.

Now if you had said "what I'm saying is that not all horns sound like that but the Klipsch tweeters that I happen to have heard certainly do", I would not have had an issue with that.

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post #28 of 36 Old 01-18-2014, 01:51 PM
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Theaters are hardly an audiophile-type best setting, don't you think? And you haven't heard the 402 horn used as a tweeter in the theater; it's only used 2-way in homes.

You may not feel that you are generalizing on the brand based on a sub-sample, but that's exactly what you are doing.

Now if you had said "what I'm saying is that not all horns sound like that but the Klipsch tweeters that I happen to have heard certainly do", I would not have had an issue with that.

So based off what you just said then any survey that has been done is irrelevant because only a sample group was asked and not the entire population. rolleyes.gif

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post #29 of 36 Old 01-18-2014, 03:44 PM
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A very bad sample though

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #30 of 36 Old 01-18-2014, 04:05 PM
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A very bad sample though

What's a bad sample?

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