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post #1 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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After years of being a audiophile I thought I was tired of it and sold my system a few months ago. Now I'm back and decided to start with a modest system: Peachtree 220 amp, Peachtree Nova preamp, Revel F-52s, all Silver Audio Cables. My room is 20' x 24'. How significant of a difference is there between F-52s, Salon 1s, and Studio 2s... Salon 2s are out of my price range.

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post #2 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 01:23 PM
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I had Studio2s for a home audition - very nice. Have you considered F208s?

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Ayre K-5xeMP, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650.
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post #3 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricjor1 View Post

After years of being a audiophile I thought I was tired of it and sold my system a few months ago. Now I'm back and decided to start with a modest system: Peachtree 220 amp, Peachtree Nova preamp, Revel F-52s, all Silver Audio Cables. My room is 20' x 24'. How significant of a difference is there between F-52s, Salon 1s, and Studio 2s... Salon 2s are out of my price range.

Significantly more difference than the difference in the Silver Audio Cables and ones that cost 1/10th as much.
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post #4 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Significantly more difference than the difference in the Silver Audio Cables and ones that cost 1/10th as much.
Or 1/100th the price.
OP, advertising BS notwithstanding, the only difference between silver and copper, aside from the price, is that silver has 5% better conductivity than copper. That sounds significant to the layman, but it isn't. All it means is that for copper to give the exact same result it must be 5% larger in gauge or be 5% shorter. The $ not wasted on wire might help you to get the speakers you'd rather have.
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post #5 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Or 1/100th the price.
OP, advertising BS notwithstanding, the only difference between silver and copper, aside from the price, is that silver has 5% better conductivity than copper. That sounds significant to the layman, but it isn't. All it means is that for copper to give the exact same result it must be 5% larger in gauge or be 5% shorter. The $ not wasted on wire might help you to get the speakers you'd rather have.

My thoughts also Bill. I was just trying to be as nice as I could.
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post #6 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I had Studio2s for a home audition - very nice. Have you considered F208s?

I have  considered F208s; however I don't have an opportunity to compare the two. I read from one person that heard both and preferred the F-52s...according to him, the F-52s image better.

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post #7 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricjor1 View Post

I have  considered F208s; however I don't have an opportunity to compare the two. I read from one person that heard both and preferred the F-52s...according to him, the F-52s image better.

I would advise taking subjective evaluations with a grain of salt.

That said, I've also heard both, and the F208 easily sounded better.

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post #8 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post

I would advise taking subjective evaluations with a grain of salt.

That said, I've also heard both, and the F208 easily sounded better.

Damn, can't get more objective than that.
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post #9 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Damn, can't get more objective than that.

I guess reading comprehension is not your forté.

The purpose of my statement was to demonstrate the variability of subjective evaluation.

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post #10 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Damn, can't get more objective than that.


I think everyone has an opinion. I've been doing this long enough to both value and take every opinion with a grain of salt. That being said, I submit when you don't have an opportunity to compare with your own ears, it's fun to ask others about their perspective.

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post #11 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 05:49 PM
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I guess reading comprehension is not your forté.

The purpose of my statement was to demonstrate the variability of subjective evaluation.

Your writing skills are no better than my comprehension. smile.gif

BTW. I knew what you were saying.
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post #12 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Or 1/100th the price.
OP, advertising BS notwithstanding, the only difference between silver and copper, aside from the price, is that silver has 5% better conductivity than copper. That sounds significant to the layman, but it isn't. All it means is that for copper to give the exact same result it must be 5% larger in gauge or be 5% shorter. The $ not wasted on wire might help you to get the speakers you'd rather have.

I thought I read somewhere that high frequencies has a greater velocity with silver vs copper, any truth to that?
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post #13 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 08:43 PM
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Electricity travels at the speed of light through a medium (different speeds through different mediums) so likely different but not likely relevant, IMO.

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post #14 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 09:02 PM
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I thought I read somewhere that high frequencies has a greater velocity with silver vs copper, any truth to that?
No. That's just not how electron waves work. You can also ignore all the stuff about skin effect. It does exist, but it does not do anything at audio frequencies. It's barely a consideration at radio frequencies.
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Electricity travels at the speed of light through a medium
Strictly speaking electricity does not travel through wire. An electron wave does. In bare wire it's close to the speed of light, in an insulated wire it's closer to 0.7 x C. The vast majority of the piffle spouted by the cable crooks would actually be true if electron waves traveled at the speed of sound, a paltry 1130 feet per second. But not at roughly 650,000 times that. eek.gif

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post #15 of 78 Old 01-15-2014, 09:17 PM
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Very true, I tend to use simplistic explanations but the wave or field is what moves near the speed if light, not the flow of electrons. I was not aware that insulated wire reduced the speed that much. College physics was a long time ago - dang.

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post #16 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 06:10 AM
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I was not aware that insulated wire reduced the speed that much.
I guarantee that you'll find more than one cable crook claiming that Teflon insulation is superior because there's less friction, allowing electrons to pass faster. rolleyes.gif

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post #17 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 06:49 AM
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I guarantee that you'll find more than one cable crook claiming that Teflon insulation is superior because there's less friction, allowing electrons to pass faster. rolleyes.gif
LOL. However, it is now going to bug me why the wave is slower with insulation vs bare wire. I guess Google is in my future on this as I no longer have books on this stuff.

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post #18 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I purchased Silver Audio Appassionata interconnect and Silver Audio Symphony 48 speaker cable based on listening. I compared them to Kimber, Transparent Audio, and a few others in the same system. So in the context of my system the Silver Audio cable won the day.

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post #19 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ricjor1 View Post

I purchased Silver Audio Appassionata interconnect and Silver Audio Symphony 48 speaker cable based on listening. I compared them to Kimber, Transparent Audio, and a few others in the same system. So in the context of my system the Silver Audio cable won the day.

Too bad that you failed to blind test all those against something like Home Depot electrical wire.
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post #20 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Too bad that you failed to blind test all those against something like Home Depot electrical wire.

Actually I did compare it to Radio Shack bare wire, so what's your point? I don't understand why individuals care about what others spend on cables? If you prefer Home Depot wire that's great! If someone wants to spend 10K on wires great!

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post #21 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 08:33 AM
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Actually I did compare it to Radio Shack bare wire, so what's your point? I don't understand why individuals care about what others spend on cables? If you prefer Home Depot wire that's great! If someone wants to spend 10K on wires great!

My point is that you could not identify one from the other if you could not see them. A point that I did not mention is you called yourself an audiophile. That word alone is usually used by one who is more impressed with owning expensive items that do little or nothing to improve sound quality. Simply stated their knowledge is limited.
As Bill stated, if you didn't waste money you might be able to afford something that will actually contribute to improving sound quality.
I personally could care less what you spend on cables if you can afford them. It does appear that you can't afford the key component that will have the most impact on good audio (speakers).

BTW, If you get all as described I would rate it above modest. Just hate to see $ wasted on cables. If the Salon 2's are out of range the $ saved on cables would likely have been better spent on room treatments.
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post #22 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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My point is that you could not identify one from the other if you could not see them. A point that I did not mention is you called yourself an audiophile. That word alone is usually used by one who is more impressed with owning expensive items that do little or nothing to improve sound quality. Simply stated their knowledge is limited.
As Bill stated, if you didn't waste money you might be able to afford something that will actually contribute to improving sound quality.
I personally could care less what you spend on cables if you can afford them. It does appear that you can't afford the key component that will have the most impact on good audio (speakers).

BTW, If you get all as described I would rate it above modest. Just hate to see $ wasted on cables. If the Salon 2's are out of range the $ saved on cables would likely have been better spent on room treatments.

Your funny! I didn't say Salon 2s were out of my price range, I simply don't want to spend over 15K on speakers. I recently sold a system that consisted of Wilson Audio Sasha's, Densen mono-amps and a Densen preamp. The only items I didn't sell were the cables. I own Peachtree Audio and a NAD 565bee CD player, neither of which is expensive...I guess I don't don't fit your definition of an audiophile. I will build this system by setting a price range for each component and listening. In addition, you have no clue as to how much I paid for my current cables. Audiophile to me equates to someone who enjoys music and reading about components.

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post #23 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
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After years of being a audiophile I thought I was tired of it and sold my system a few months ago. Now I'm back and decided to start with a modest system: Peachtree 220 amp, Peachtree Nova preamp, Revel F-52s, all Silver Audio Cables. My room is 20' x 24'. How significant of a difference is there between F-52s, Salon 1s, and Studio 2s... Salon 2s are out of my price range.

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Your funny! I didn't say Salon 2s were out of my price range, I simply don't want to spend over 15K on speakers. I recently sold a system that consisted of Wilson Audio Sasha's, Densen mono-amps and a Densen preamp. The only items I didn't sell were the cables. I own Peachtree Audio and a NAD 565bee CD player, neither of which is expensive...I guess I don't don't fit your definition of an audiophile. I will build this system by setting a price range for each component and listening. In addition, you have no clue as to how much I paid for my current cables. Audiophile to me equates to someone who enjoys music and reading about components.

Go back and look at your original post to see who is funny. Where is the 15k hidden?
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post #24 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 09:38 AM
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Things that have a 100% chance of derailing a thread on AVS:

1. Posting about fancy wires
2. Mentioning Bose in the OP

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post #25 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 11:18 AM
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Listening is great but make sure you do it with your ears, not your eyes! Compare all the stuff blind and then be happy you saved money, not upset you don't own a brand name.

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post #26 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Out of my price range, meaning what I decided was the max I would spend on speakers. I have set a max for each component, not because I can't afford more, but because my experience has taught me about the law of diminishing returns. I set a budget and I will stick to it. I don't need the most expensive or the best(whatever that means).

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post #27 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 12:55 PM
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One thing to consider is that the Performa3 (F206, F208) are replacing the F32/F52, so if you were to run into any issues like needing to replace a speaker driver or have warranty work done, those parts might not be as readily available for the F52 at a later date.

Your room is pretty sizable, and the F206/F208 are rated as 8 ohm nominal impedance while the F52 is rated as 6.5ohm nominal with a minimum of 3.5 ohm (more detailed impedance info not yet available for the Performa3), and the Studio2 are very similar to the F52 at 6ohm nominal, 3.7ohm minimum. Depending on how loud you like to listen, the F206/F208 would place less strain on your amplifier.

Some feedback I've read puts the new Performa3 line as being a solid positive progression over the Performa2, but yet again, that is heavily subjective and open to interpretation smile.gif If it were me, I'd say the F208 would be a great option.
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post #28 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 01:16 PM
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Are you all set on Revel? Any interest on the Salk line?
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post #29 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 01:30 PM
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Are you all set on Revel? Any interest on the Salk line?
Interesting you mention Salk, I have both Revel and Salk speakers. smile.gif

 

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post #30 of 78 Old 01-16-2014, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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One thing to consider is that the Performa3 (F206, F208) are replacing the F32/F52, so if you were to run into any issues like needing to replace a speaker driver or have warranty work done, those parts might not be as readily available for the F52 at a later date.

Your room is pretty sizable, and the F206/F208 are rated as 8 ohm nominal impedance while the F52 is rated as 6.5ohm nominal with a minimum of 3.5 ohm (more detailed impedance info not yet available for the Performa3), and the Studio2 are very similar to the F52 at 6ohm nominal, 3.7ohm minimum. Depending on how loud you like to listen, the F206/F208 would place less strain on your amplifier.

Some feedback I've read puts the new Performa3 line as being a solid positive progression over the Performa2, but yet again, that is heavily subjective and open to interpretation smile.gif If it were me, I'd say the F208 would be a great option.


thrand1,

 

thanks so much for addressing my question, I get your point concerning repairs, but that will be the case with any speaker, including F206s and F208s in a few years. I'm trying to hear the F208 and Studio 2s to see if it's worth changing...I purchased the F-52s new and really enjoy listening to them. To my ears the F-52s are very musical.I'm just wondering if F208s or F-52s may be the answer.

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