January 18th Loudspeaker GTG results thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Is it just me or does it seem like a few hundo spent on room treatments and measuring gear might save thousands on speaker "upgrade" costs ?

Naw ... never mind ... keep up the good work. Our economy needs you tongue.gifwink.gif

Ya know, I'm having this inner struggle right now. I found a trio of York U215s, a pair of SH50s and I'm fighting hard not to buy them both! I don't even have my room done yet and I can't stop buying crap. biggrin.gif
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post #302 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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I purchased the first set of Legacy Focus SE's in Sept. of 2011
Sold them in April of 2013.

Bought the Cats in June of 2013
Sold them Jan 2014

New design Focus SE's in place Jan 2014.

Over the entire changeup I think I came out -$2500 only because the new Legacy's cost me a couple grand more than the first ones.

So there was an upcharge for the upgrade. I didn't bother with room treatments as I knew I wanted to change direction back to predominantly two channel listening.

The new AirMotion Legacy's definitely disperse better than the previous version.

If I had a dedicated theater like Andrew I probably would not have sold the CATs. They sounded great in his room, both GTG's.

They sounded good in my rec room except for the lack of dampening. My wife and I weren't interested in changing walls and decor around and I was chompin at the bit for the change.

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post #303 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

My experience with those speakers, (having heard them many times at DMark1's place), is that they sound MUCH better without the grills. The grills are constructed of MDF, are fairly massive and they extend out, away from the speaker face. They cause a significant amount of diffraction that interferes with dispersion and sound quality. They *look* great, but for serious listening, I suggest you remove them.

Craig

Craig, they changed the grills. They are no longer a stacked frame design and have a more open frame. The grill is only 9/16" thick now. Huge difference.
Even so, I agree.... with any speaker, better without grills. I always had the grills off the older set with the grills you describe.






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post #304 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mhrischuk View Post

Craig, they changed the grills. They are no longer a stacked frame design and have a more open frame. Huge difference.
Even so, I agree.... with any speaker, better without. I always had the grills off the older set with the grills you describe.
You're right, now that you say that, they do look different. Glad to hear they're an improvement. smile.gif

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post #305 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

My experience with those speakers, (having heard them many times at DMark1's place), is that they sound MUCH better without the grills. The grills are constructed of MDF, are fairly massive and they extend out, away from the speaker face. They cause a significant amount of diffraction that interferes with dispersion and sound quality. They *look* great, but for serious listening, I suggest you remove them.

Craig

Craig, are those the same Legacy's that DMark1 currently has? I liked them a lot, and felt like the Whispers were a significant step up (ha, watch me say the opposite in a blind test - I've learned my lesson too many times with blind gtg's).
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post #306 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Tom, we need the DIY version of the SM60's...... NEED them!

I got a chance to hear a set of SM50's a few days ago and they were awesome, I was set to buy but there was a rattle in the speaker, sounded like a blown driver IMO but the guy selling them was being a tool and didn't want to fix anything and for his price it wasn't worth the effort just in case ( they were pretty beat up too) Too bad.... I wonder how Beasts 60m's compare to the 50s? I guess Beast will know soon enough lol

It's to bad the seller didn't care about selling defective/broken product. Without knowing any more details it is hard to say if it would be a simple fix or not. It could be any of several different things causing the problem

There is no SM50, you must have been thinking about the SH50.

There are a number of differences: THe SH50 is larger/heavier etc. THe pattern of the SH50 is 50x50 and the SM60F is 60x60. The SH50 costs more.

The SH50 has a higher sensitivity and a higher power capacity-so it can go a fair bit louder.

The SH50 also has a lower low freq cutoff-since it uses 2 12" woofers and the SM60F uses 2 8" woofers.

The basic arrangement of both cabinets is the same-3 way with all the drivers on the same horn-so it has a single sound source of sound

The SM60F has bit higher extension on the top end-due to the smaller/lighter HF driver.

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post #307 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Ya know, I'm having this inner struggle right now. I found a trio of York U215s, a pair of SH50s and I'm fighting hard not to buy them both! I don't even have my room done yet and I can't stop buying crap. biggrin.gif


Man...

Jonathan and I were talking about how many loaded guys we've met in this hobby!

No jealousy here - I like to live vicariously through you guys so I say buy 'em both!!! biggrin.gif


Especially if they are used, if you decide to sell you can get your money back.



Hmmmm on second thought what's the point? Your current speakers are all you're ever going to need.


Ha, I'm not helping the the whole inner struggle thing..... tongue.gifsmile.gif
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post #308 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Craig, are those the same Legacy's that DMark1 currently has? I liked them a lot, and felt like the Whispers were a significant step up (ha, watch me say the opposite in a blind test - I've learned my lesson too many times with blind gtg's).
Dennis' Legacy's don't have the AMT tweeter. His have the ribbon tweeter. They do have the AMT "super tweeter," but the tweeter is a ribbon. His Whispers and Focus's are both the same with the ribbon tweeters. They look like this:



And this is what the new tweeters look like:



I believe there is a kit coming soon that will allow him to convert his speakers to the dual AMT design.

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post #309 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 11:42 AM
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Gotcha, thanks.

Have you guys ever talked about being curious what his speakers would sound like in your room?
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post #310 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Gotcha, thanks.

Have you guys ever talked about being curious what his speakers would sound like in your room?
Interesting thought. I'm going over there tomorrow to help him install his new screen. I ask him about it. smile.gif

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post #311 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

It's to bad the seller didn't care about selling defective/broken product. Without knowing any more details it is hard to say if it would be a simple fix or not. It could be any of several different things causing the problem

There is no SM50, you must have been thinking about the SH50.

There are a number of differences: THe SH50 is larger/heavier etc. THe pattern of the SH50 is 50x50 and the SM60F is 60x60. The SH50 costs more.

The SH50 has a higher sensitivity and a higher power capacity-so it can go a fair bit louder.

The SH50 also has a lower low freq cutoff-since it uses 2 12" woofers and the SM60F uses 2 8" woofers.

The basic arrangement of both cabinets is the same-3 way with all the drivers on the same horn-so it has a single sound source of sound

The SM60F has bit higher extension on the top end-due to the smaller/lighter HF driver.

Sorry, the SH50's, I just typed it wrong. They were the first Danley speakers I've heard. I've heard quite a few different Danley subs though. The seller used them for DJ and was the second owner ( though they were pretty new, just beat up a bit. He didn't even notice the rattle until I stuck my head in there... He was using rmx5050 bridged per speaker, so I'd imagine that was the start of the problem, to many unknowns for my liking, although they sounded great even with the rattle.

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post #312 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Interesting thought. I'm going over there tomorrow to help him install his new screen. I ask him about it. smile.gif

Craig


You guys live about the same distance apart as Jonathan and I, so the reason I ask is we would be all over this kind of comparison!!

It's hard to imagine any speakers sounding better than what I heard in your room, but who knows? It could be dangerous for the wallet to find out!! biggrin.gif Hmmm or maybe not, I didn't look into a price comparison of the 2 speakers....


Speaking of that, I'm having some of the KC guys over tomorrow to hear the Danley SH 50's and I'm pumped about it. Brandon is buying LRC used from a guy here in KC and is letting us check them out in my room (how incredibly cool is that?!?!?! smile.gif thanks again Beast, I hope it's cool I'm posting about it - I am a bit of a blabbermouth... redface.gif) before having the shipping company pick them up from my place.

Jonathan and I are going to go to the guys place to make sure the speakers work etc., I'll be curious to hear why he is selling assuming it's a move to different speakers.
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post #313 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:28 PM
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I like your sense of urgency Sheldon wink.gif

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post #314 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

You guys live about the same distance apart as Jonathan and I, so the reason I ask is we would be all over this kind of comparison!!

It's hard to imagine any speakers sounding better than what I heard in your room, but who knows? It could be dangerous for the wallet to find out!! biggrin.gif Hmmm or maybe not, I didn't look into a price comparison of the 2 speakers....


Speaking of that, I'm having some of the KC guys over tomorrow to hear the Danley SH 50's and I'm pumped about it. Brandon is buying LRC used from a guy here in KC and is letting us check them out in my room (how incredibly cool is that?!?!?! smile.gif thanks again Beast, I hope it's cool I'm posting about it - I am a bit of a blabbermouth... redface.gif) before having the shipping company pick them up from my place.

Jonathan and I are going to go to the guys place to make sure the speakers work etc., I'll be curious to hear why he is selling assuming it's a move to different speakers.

1)What a sweet deal from Brandon to let you sample the speakers first.

2)DON'T FLIPPIN DO IT!!!!! IF you like them better then the Noesis in your own room you won't ever sleep again smile.gif
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post #315 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Dennis' Legacy's don't have the AMT tweeter. His have the ribbon tweeter. They do have the AMT "super tweeter," but the tweeter is a ribbon. His Whispers and Focus's are both the same with the ribbon tweeters. They look like this:



And this is what the new tweeters look like:



I believe there is a kit coming soon that will allow him to convert his speakers to the dual AMT design.

Craig

GORGEOUS!
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post #316 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:35 PM
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I like your sense of urgency Sheldon wink.gif


Ha, yeah I tried to explain to my wife how this is such a lucky coincidence that I'll be able to demo these speakers in my room.

Haha, I don't think quite understood or appreciated how cool this is. biggrin.gif
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post #317 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

You guys live about the same distance apart as Jonathan and I, so the reason I ask is we would be all over this kind of comparison!!

It's hard to imagine any speakers sounding better than what I heard in your room, but who knows? It could be dangerous for the wallet to find out!! biggrin.gif Hmmm or maybe not, I didn't look into a price comparison of the 2 speakers....


Speaking of that, I'm having some of the KC guys over tomorrow to hear the Danley SH 50's and I'm pumped about it. Brandon is buying LRC used from a guy here in KC and is letting us check them out in my room (how incredibly cool is that?!?!?! smile.gif thanks again Beast, I hope it's cool I'm posting about it - I am a bit of a blabbermouth... redface.gif) before having the shipping company pick them up from my place.

Jonathan and I are going to go to the guys place to make sure the speakers work etc., I'll be curious to hear why he is selling assuming it's a move to different speakers.

Saaaweeeeeetttt!!! Don't tell me how much you guys like them cause' I really don't need to be buying the ones I found....just kidding, tell me so I can justify a purchase I know I don't need to make biggrin.gif I'll be watching from now until the reviews pop up from you guys biggrin.gif Very cool of Brandon to do so, but not surprised as he's a very cool guy.
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post #318 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Saaaweeeeeetttt!!! Don't tell me how much you guys like them cause' I really don't need to be buying the ones I found....just kidding, tell me so I can justify a purchase I know I don't need to make biggrin.gif I'll be watching from now until the reviews pop up from you guys biggrin.gif Very cool of Brandon to do so, but not surprised as he's a very cool guy.


Haha, yeah when I was thanking Brandon he told me something like, "it might be the worst mistake you ever made!" smile.gif


If Andrew doesn't mind I might post some impressions and pictures tomorrow.
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post #319 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

1)What a sweet deal from Brandon to let you sample the speakers first.

2)DON'T FLIPPIN DO IT!!!!! IF you like them better then the Noesis in your own room you won't ever sleep again smile.gif


I missed this post somehow. I know... this is very, very dangerous. I've been listening to a lot of music the past week and loving it every bit as much as before the GTG, so I'm not really thinking of making a change. Why am I doing this?!?!?!? Ahhhh I can't help it, I have to know and this is too much fun.
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post #320 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Haha, yeah when I was thanking Brandon he told me something like, "it might be the worst mistake you ever made!" smile.gif


If Andrew doesn't mind I might post some impressions and pictures tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Haha, yeah when I was thanking Brandon he told me something like, "it might be the worst mistake you ever made!" smile.gif


If Andrew doesn't mind I might post some impressions and pictures tomorrow.

Andrew will be upset if there aren't reviews/pictures/video ASAP! biggrin.gif Talked to Bramdon yesterday and told me about the arrangement. Awesome!
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post #321 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, yeah I tried to explain to my wife how this is such a lucky coincidence that I'll be able to demo these speakers in my room.

Haha, I don't think quite understood or appreciated how cool this is. biggrin.gif

Just send a Brandon a wad of cash if you end up in love wink.gif but I do have a vested interest in the 212 now, so I'm keeping fingers crossed...Now the burden is on u tongue.gif

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It truly is a SICKNESS Carp. Haha. I LOVE IT.biggrin.gif
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post #323 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Haha, yeah when I was thanking Brandon he told me something like, "it might be the worst mistake you ever made!" smile.gif


If Andrew doesn't mind I might post some impressions and pictures tomorrow.

Oh he'll understand....and what's this MIGHT post pics/impressions crap?!?!?!?! biggrin.gif
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post #324 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:46 PM
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Andrew will be upset if there aren't reviews/pictures/video ASAP! biggrin.gif Talked to Bramdon yesterday and told me about the arrangement. Awesome!


I had a feeling you'd say something like that! cool.gif

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Just send a Brandon a wad of cash if you end up in love wink.gif but I do have a vested interest in the 212 now, so I'm keeping fingers crossed...Now the burden is on u tongue.gif


I'm not too worried because the 50's aren't in the same price point as the 212's. I think they are around 4200 per speaker? Now...if you can find a used pair....
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post #325 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:52 PM
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I had a feeling you'd say something like that! cool.gif
I'm not too worried because the 50's aren't in the same price point as the 212's. I think they are around 4200 per speaker? Now...if you can find a used pair....

That should end the comparison. Great review Mr. Carp. Everyone be content with their respective 212/228. Keep calm and stop hitting refresh...nothing to see here. cool.gif

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post #326 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 01:58 PM
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That should end the comparison. Great review Mr. Carp. Everyone be content with their respective 212/228. Keep calm and stop hitting refresh...nothing to see here. cool.gif


It's a slippery slope though. I remember when I was a subs first guy (before I heard the Noesis) that 500 per speaker was a lot to spend when I bought the eD Cinema 12's. Then suddenly it was ok to take that number times 4.... now I would just have to double that....


Oh god... what am I talking about....

I would not be able to afford these for a very long time.
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post #327 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 02:06 PM
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I am ready to move back to KC! With the cost differential in housing I could buy new toys. Can't wait to read the review of the Danley's.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #328 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 02:20 PM
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It's a slippery slope though. I remember when I was a subs first guy (before I heard the Noesis) that 500 per speaker was a lot to spend when I bought the eD Cinema 12's. Then suddenly it was ok to take that number times 4.... now I would just have to double that....


Oh god... what am I talking about....

I would not be able to afford these for a very long time.

That slope is so slippery indeed. I remember when I first got into the hobby the thought of 3K on a whole 5.1 setup seemed the absolute most I'd ever spend. Then 4000 on lcr seemed like my max. A couple months ago I thought about upgrading to 212's and now I'm contemplating catalysts and SM60's. Jeez, when will my sickness be satisfied lol?
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post #329 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Sorry, the SH50's, I just typed it wrong. They were the first Danley speakers I've heard. I've heard quite a few different Danley subs though. The seller used them for DJ and was the second owner ( though they were pretty new, just beat up a bit. He didn't even notice the rattle until I stuck my head in there... He was using rmx5050 bridged per speaker, so I'd imagine that was the start of the problem, to many unknowns for my liking, although they sounded great even with the rattle.
I would have suggested running a Sh50 per channel on an RMX 5050.

But it depends on how hard there were pushed. Having lots of power is a good idea-as long as you don't "lay the coal to it".

You were talking about a DJ, and many times they use the clip lights as signal lights

The problem compounds when you consider that many DJs run highly compressed music-so the average power is much higher than with "normal" material.

One of the "problems" with the SH50 and all Danley products is that because of the low distortion (due to the low pass nature of how the drivers are loaded into the horn), you don't realize they are as loud as they actually are. Many people associate level with distortion. So when the distortion is low-they drive it harder, looking for "that sound".
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post #330 of 989 Old 01-25-2014, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

I am ready to move back to KC! With the cost differential in housing I could buy new toys. Can't wait to read the review of the Danley's.

not much marine biology in these parts. smile.gif

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