January 18th Loudspeaker GTG results thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 06:15 PM
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Great write up Kevin.

I feel like I barely got the chance to meet you as you were one of the 'new' guys. A real shame we didn't really crank anything at the G2G. This blind event had a different feeling than the previous two. At those we sent almost everyone home with their ears hurtin or hollow sounding.

From your write up it seems like you have a more critical ear like myself for the specific frequency ranges and aspects of the instruments and mixing on each track. A shame you lost your notes for the noesis. Myself, I found the danley's had more clarity but less imaging than the noesis. I don't know if you were able to hear the imaging as well because you were so low to the ground up front that far. center of the tweeters was about halfway between the two couches I believe. But you certainly got more of the volume you were craving (at previous G2Gs back of the room would have been that loud).



so whose comments are we still missing?
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post #632 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 06:49 PM
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Incredible write up Kevin! I think I'd speak for all of us in saying we're fortunate to have someone with your experience and willingness to share your thoughts. It was a pleasure meeting/chatting a bit with you and hope to see you at the next one!


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post #633 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 08:06 PM
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Well dudes, it is done. Didn't want to keep anyone waiting for the FR graphs, so here they are. Haven't put a single tune through them yet but figured I would go ahead and post some love before I head back down and start demoing. I like what I see so far. The graphs are actually even smoother at my MLP, this is between first a second row where I measured. Bringing the mic up exactly 4 inches (difference between the two compression driver heights) actually cleans up the 50's upper response even more. Looks like I need to cut some height off these stands, which are creaking under the weight of these guys...Haha BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!






And the FR's. You can visibly see where I am losing some down low on the right speaker location. Haven't quite figured out what I need to do to remedy this, but I am still working on it. Disregard the legend, the two fall colors are the 60f's and the blue/green is the 50's



And just the fiddy's

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post #634 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 08:09 PM
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Wow those are LARGE...seeing them next to the Danley's you brought to Popalocks really gives some perspective.

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post #635 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 08:14 PM
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The pics don't even do them justice!!! Massive man, massive. After seeing Kevin's pics of the back room, I was thinking, "Oh how small the 60's were compared to all those SEOSR components." Haha

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post #636 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 08:16 PM
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Below, leaving my constant companion, Daisy, my female pit;



Great writeup! More pics of Daisy please. We had a female pit that passed two years ago and she was the best dog I've ever had.

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post #637 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 08:28 PM
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The pics don't even do them justice!!! Massive man, massive. After seeing Kevin's pics of the back room, I was thinking, "Oh how small the 60's were compared to all those SEOSR components." Haha

The 50's make the 60's look small. The SEOSR is really freak in large. But those 50's will rock the neighborhood. Better get the new Black Sabbath blu ray and cut em loose!

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post #638 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 09:22 PM
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My God, Fellas. Only through the "home" track from the ole g2g disk and I am hearing things that I never came close to hearing through any of the offerings we had there. This is absolutely UNREAL. I almost got nauseous at the beginning of the Madonna track due to the stereo separation I was hearing right when I paused it just now. I think Carp's review could be accurate in his room, but GotDamn, these things kick some serious tail. I have already had those "pee stream finishing chills" at least half a dozen times just with the test disc thus far. I do also have to admit, the volume on these can be ridiculously deceiving. I am listening at -10 to the disc just as we did at the g2g, and on some of the earlier softer tracks, I thought something was off with the speaker trim levels. Nope. Just that friggin clean....More later, as in tomorrow later.... Back to enjoying for a bit!

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post #639 of 875 Old 02-01-2014, 09:53 PM
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Wait until the Dream Theater tracks. Turn up the volume until you reach that point where you just lose yourself in the music and then check a db meter. It will be so much louder than you think.... It's actually kind of scary!

So glad you are loving them!

Also you have to check out Radioheads Everything in its own Place ( I think that's the right song title). Freakishly awesome imaging like I've never heard.


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post #640 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 04:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Kevin - I will echo the others in saying THANK YOU for the great write up and review.

Beast - glad you are loving the new toys! Can't wait to hear them at some point down your place.


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post #641 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 06:49 AM
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Beast, that setup is awesome. Your subs look afraid...very afraid.
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post #642 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 07:35 AM
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Those of you into DIY might enjoy reading Paul Spencers long thread on his DIY Synergy Horn. He also compares it to the Yorkville.

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post #643 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 07:42 AM
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^ +1

As a fan of Paul's, I think everyone should read all his blog contributions.

http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/

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post #644 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Kevin - I will echo the others in saying THANK YOU for the great write up and review.

Beast - glad you are loving the new toys! Can't wait to hear them at some point down your place.

Yessir buddy! Time to start planning biggrin.gif

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Beast, that setup is awesome. Your subs look afraid...very afraid.

Don't worry, I have plans for that biggrin.gif

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post #645 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 10:31 AM
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I was lucky enough to go to Carp's last week to listen to the Danley SH50's so I thought I would post a few quick notes. I have wanted to hear some Danleys for quite some time so thank you to both Carp and Beast! Having just finished my dedicated room I am in the market for a new front 3 so this was especially timely. I did not get to stick around for the AB but I have heard the 212's in Carp's room several times.

The short version is I really liked them. They were clean and had a great sound stage which is something that is very important to me. Sheldon mentioned this several times already but the sound was much more even between the first and second rows with these speakers. There were still differences of course. I popped my head back and forth between the rows many times to confirm this but overall it was pretty even. One thing I noted along with others was the Metallica bass track on the Rock and Roll Hall of fame song we listened to was incredibly punchy. Just really present and a treat to listen to. Totally distinct from the other instruments. I felt this way with quite a bit of what we listened to as far as impact is concerned. I did not get fatigued while listening but I only stayed about an hour. At times we had it cranked pretty good and I never heard compression. I really wish I could have stayed to listen to the speakers properly placed and tweaked but maybe another time.

After this listen I would say the SM60F's are on my short list of future speakers along with the Noesis 212's and Triad Golds and a few others. My MLP is only 9.5 feet from the speaker so I am not sure how that might affect my choice as far as dispersion pattern is concerned......

Well, enjoy the Danley's Beast! I know you will.


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post #646 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

I was lucky enough to go to Carp's last week to listen to the Danley SH50's so I thought I would post a few quick notes. I have wanted to hear some Danleys for quite some time so thank you to both Carp and Beast! Having just finished my dedicated room I am in the market for a new front 3 so this was especially timely. I did not get to stick around for the AB but I have heard the 212's in Carp's room several times.

The short version is I really liked them. They were clean and had a great sound stage which is something that is very important to me. Sheldon mentioned this several times already but the sound was much more even between the first and second rows with these speakers. There were still differences of course. I popped my head back and forth between the rows many times to confirm this but overall it was pretty even. One thing I noted along with others was the Metallica bass track on the Rock and Roll Hall of fame song we listened to was incredibly punchy. Just really present and a treat to listen to. Totally distinct from the other instruments. I felt this way with quite a bit of what we listened to as far as impact is concerned. I did not get fatigued while listening but I only stayed about an hour. At times we had it cranked pretty good and I never heard compression. I really wish I could have stayed to listen to the speakers properly placed and tweaked but maybe another time.

After this listen I would say the SM60F's are on my short list of future speakers along with the Noesis 212's and Triad Golds and a few others. My MLP is only 9.5 feet from the speaker so I am not sure how that might affect my choice as far as dispersion pattern is concerned......

Well, enjoy the Danley's Beast! I know you will.



Your room is very well treated, and the best movie experience I've had to date was in a very well treated room with Triad Platinum's. Sorry to plant that idea in your mind.... eek.gifsmile.gif


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post #647 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 11:28 AM
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so whose comments are we still missing?
I still have to post my thoughts, nothing that special, especially compared to Kevin's review. I have not had allot of time, but I have been working on mine in notes and will transfer mine over to here later on. I have 10 days off, so I have some time on my hands here. So nice out today I am out cleaning the garage!!

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post #648 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 11:44 AM
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Your room is very well treated, and the best movie experience I've had to date was in a very well treated room with Triad Platinum's. Sorry to plant that idea in your mind.... eek.gifsmile.gif

Carp, are these paired with S2's for the low end or do you have those 4 (8?) subs?
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post #649 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

I was lucky enough to go to Carp's last week to listen to the Danley SH50's so I thought I would post a few quick notes. I have wanted to hear some Danleys for quite some time so thank you to both Carp and Beast! Having just finished my dedicated room I am in the market for a new front 3 so this was especially timely. I did not get to stick around for the AB but I have heard the 212's in Carp's room several times.

The short version is I really liked them. They were clean and had a great sound stage which is something that is very important to me. Sheldon mentioned this several times already but the sound was much more even between the first and second rows with these speakers. There were still differences of course. I popped my head back and forth between the rows many times to confirm this but overall it was pretty even. One thing I noted along with others was the Metallica bass track on the Rock and Roll Hall of fame song we listened to was incredibly punchy. Just really present and a treat to listen to. Totally distinct from the other instruments. I felt this way with quite a bit of what we listened to as far as impact is concerned. I did not get fatigued while listening but I only stayed about an hour. At times we had it cranked pretty good and I never heard compression. I really wish I could have stayed to listen to the speakers properly placed and tweaked but maybe another time.

After this listen I would say the SM60F's are on my short list of future speakers along with the Noesis 212's and Triad Golds and a few others. My MLP is only 9.5 feet from the speaker so I am not sure how that might affect my choice as far as dispersion pattern is concerned......

Well, enjoy the Danley's Beast! I know you will.

Thanks for your impressions man! If you have a well treated room, the Danleys are a REAL treat. The best I have ever heard IMO. Not sure what your time frame is but Tom is working on a new pair of 60f's that is more catered to the HT crowd. Not sure if they will be active but I would guess not, and the price point I would imagine might be different from the standard 60f (assuming higher). He has been working on it for a while so I don't know his exact time frame for release.

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post #650 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 12:18 PM
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Carp, are these paired with S2's for the low end or do you have those 4 (8?) subs?


Are you asking about my room or the room I heard the Triad's?

The Triad Platinums were in Craig John's room, he has 3 Submersives. I have 8 SI DIY subs.


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post #651 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 12:58 PM
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The pics don't even do them justice!!! Massive man, massive. After seeing Kevin's pics of the back room, I was thinking, "Oh how small the 60's were compared to all those SEOSR components." Haha

Brandon's front stage + Austin's subwoofers = smiley-music013.gif

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post #652 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 01:19 PM
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Brandon's front stage + Austin's subwoofers = smiley-music013.gif

Dude, once I have all 8 of mine back in, and then the 2 RE XXX18 ported IB, it is going to be pretty close... Oh and those 24's too smile.gif

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post #653 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 03:11 PM
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Your room is very well treated, and the best movie experience I've had to date was in a very well treated room with Triad Platinum's. Sorry to plant that idea in your mind.... eek.gifsmile.gif

Oh it's too late. I'm afraid I didn't miss how much you gushed over Craig's room and I have looked at his thread before and lusted over the Platinum's. How much are they again!?!?

Yeah, I think my room is pretty well treated between the Quest Perfsorber at first reflections, OC 705 lots of other places, OC Select Sound Black x 2 layers on front wall, and riser as a bass trap.


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post #654 of 875 Old 02-02-2014, 03:13 PM
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Thanks for your impressions man! If you have a well treated room, the Danleys are a REAL treat. The best I have ever heard IMO. Not sure what your time frame is but Tom is working on a new pair of 60f's that is more catered to the HT crowd. Not sure if they will be active but I would guess not, and the price point I would imagine might be different from the standard 60f (assuming higher). He has been working on it for a while so I don't know his exact time frame for release.

Hmm, good to know. Not sure if I can stomach a higher price point though. Maybe I can manage to EQ the standard version to my liking with some professional help.........


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post #655 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:01 PM
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Considering the brain trust we have going in this here thread, I wanted to post my question here to see what you guys think. I know the real answer is: "Start your own HT build thread already B" but time is seemingly of the essence as I want to get started sooner rather than later.

I am about to embark on all new sub boxes (sealed) for my si 18's to optimize my front stage while freeing up space and at the same time hopefully creating an even better bass response. Do you guys think the merits of doing two vertical boxes of 4 18's each placed in between the mains and the center on each side going floor to ceiling is the best approach over just some dual opposed boxes across the bottom of the screen? I can make both work I think, but this vertical line array sub style has me intrigued and would assume would have its benefits in my space. having all 8 across the bottom might not do as good a job (right?), but would certainly seem a little easier to implement with basically zero placement issues with the mains doing it this way. Regardless, I don't have all the options in the world with my room width and the behemoths back there now....

Fire away fellers biggrin.gif

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post #656 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:30 PM
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I Ioved the vertical towers in popalocks room and supposedly vertical placement will help with room modes.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #657 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:31 PM
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It seems to me the vertical arrays are the way to go. LTD2 brought up the benefits on a recent sub build. I am not an expert and did not stay at Holliday Inn Express last night.
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post #658 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:44 PM
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Considering the brain trust we have going in this here thread, I wanted to post my question here to see what you guys think. I know the real answer is: "Start your own HT build thread already B" but time is seemingly of the essence as I want to get started sooner rather than later.

I am about to embark on all new sub boxes (sealed) for my si 18's to optimize my front stage while freeing up space and at the same time hopefully creating an even better bass response. Do you guys think the merits of doing two vertical boxes of 4 18's each placed in between the mains and the center on each side going floor to ceiling is the best approach over just some dual opposed boxes across the bottom of the screen? I can make both work I think, but this vertical line array sub style has me intrigued and would assume would have its benefits in my space. having all 8 across the bottom might not do as good a job (right?), but would certainly seem a little easier to implement with basically zero placement issues with the mains doing it this way. Regardless, I don't have all the options in the world with my room width and the behemoths back there now....

Fire away fellers biggrin.gif


I'm thinking about doing this when/if I go AT, but just stack my current boxes floor to ceiling. Each column 4 feet from the side walls. However, I am also thinking about doing something similar to what Not is doing, going with 4 huge ported boxes with 2 drivers each. I assume I would have about half the ouput he does, but my room is also half the size if I remember right.

Do you have any thoughts of ported? Probably not needed with the closet sub?

Have you had a chance to do much comparing between the Danley's?


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post #659 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:44 PM
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A "tower" sub will act like a single sub. All 4 drivers will mutually couple and the wavefront from the drivers will propagate as one wave. You won't get any frequency response smoothing from the individual drivers. You'll only get one set of room modes from the entire box. In addition, if you place the other box within a 1/4 wavelength of the first one, that box will also mutually couple with the other box and all 8 drivers will propagate as if they were one big subwoofer. You'll get MASSIVE output, but no frequency response smoothing. IME, dual subs located between the mains and center has never worked. It looks really cool, but it doesn't measure or sound very good.

Putting them in separate boxes allows you to place them around the room for FR smoothing. Putting them in dual-opposed boxes takes advantage of the balanced, opposed forces, which takes cabinet resonation out of the equation. (I would imagine it would take MASSIVE boxes to ensure you get no box resonation whith 4 18" drivers in each box.)

My vote: 4 dual opposed boxes place around the room.

Craig

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post #660 of 875 Old 02-03-2014, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

A "tower" sub will act like a single sub. All 4 drivers will mutually couple and the wavefront from the drivers will propagate as one wave. You won't get any frequency response smoothing from the individual drivers. You'll only get one set of room modes from the entire box. In addition, if you place the other box within a 1/4 wavelength of the first one, that box will also mutually couple with the other box and all 8 drivers will propagate as if they were one big subwoofer. You'll get MASSIVE output, but no frequency response smoothing. IME, dual subs located between the mains and center has never worked. It looks really cool, but it doesn't measure or sound very good.

Putting them in separate boxes allows you to place them around the room for FR smoothing. Putting them in dual-opposed boxes takes advantage of the balanced, opposed forces, which takes cabinet resonation out of the equation. (I would imagine it would take MASSIVE boxes to ensure you get no box resonation whith 4 18" drivers in each box.)

My vote: 4 dual opposed boxes place around the room.

Craig



Craig, I've read that having subs at quarter distances from wall/floor/ceiling helps smooth the room. If I had each stack 1/4 distance from the side wall stacked floor to ceiling along the front wall would that help with smoothing?


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