New HT / unfinished basement - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Space: full room is 34+ feet by 12 (HT portion is in the center of that - 14 x 12). Roughly 10 feet on each side for wet bar and open area. Hopefully that makes sense. Front is built-in entertainment center wall/back is a wall, right and left are open. Ceiling is 7 feet from front wall to end of soffit (about 6 feet) then 8 foot ceilings rest of way to back wall.

 

Budget: not positive yet but likely around $4K

 

Wants: HT (60+ inch TV, receiver, DVD/BluRay, full compliment of speakers)

 

Style: I'm a huge sports guy - lots of football, basketball, golf, etc PLUS tons of movies. Music quality not a huge priority but would be nice to have decent quality.

 

Time Frame: Drywall goes up Feb 3rd! I need to have wiring in by then.

 

Yesterday I went into BB Magnolia. Listened to Definitive ProCinema 600s and Speakercraft along with a  few others. I was pretty impressed with AIM7TWOs with Martin Logan sub. I think the center was a Definitive. Receiver was Denon AVR X2000.

 

I'm kind of torn right now on the type of speaker I want. I think I want in ceiling but would probably be ok with just about anything.


I'm in early stages of research but my time frame is closing in!

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks!

coachkapps is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 07:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,301
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
First and foremost do NOT buy a subwoofer from a big box store like best buy. For the money you spent there you could get a subwoofer from an internet direct company that will out perform those subwoofers for miles. These big box stores will over charge for miles so beware. 500-600 on a subwoofer from SVS, HSU, Rhytmik, or Outlaw is much better spent

Although your HT area is only 14x12, I am assuming that is open to the rest of the room so for the subwoofer you need a sub to go in that full room.

Small speakers = small sound, so the definitive technology 600 is not for your nor would be the 800.

For the front speakers you want them to face you, not the floor so do NOT use in-ceiling speakers for the front 3 speakers, you should use in wall speakers for the front 3. Or you could just use book shelf set-up for the front 3 and in-ceilings for surrounds.
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

First and foremost do NOT buy a subwoofer from a big box store like best buy. For the money you spent there you could get a subwoofer from an internet direct company that will out perform those subwoofers for miles. These big box stores will over charge for miles so beware. 500-600 on a subwoofer from SVS, HSU, Rhytmik, or Outlaw is much better spent

Although your HT area is only 14x12, I am assuming that is open to the rest of the room so for the subwoofer you need a sub to go in that full room.

Small speakers = small sound, so the definitive technology 600 is not for your nor would be the 800.

For the front speakers you want them to face you, not the floor so do NOT use in-ceiling speakers for the front 3 speakers, you should use in wall speakers for the front 3. Or you could just use book shelf set-up for the front 3 and in-ceilings for surrounds.

 

I was impressed with the Martin Logan Dynamo 500 sub. Should I not be? It kicked butt on the others that I demo'd but I didn't hear a ton so my knowledge is limited.

 

Yeah, I would guess since my soffit is 7 feet, putting in ceiling for fronts would be incredibly dumb.....just what I thought. I'd like to utilize the two walls just to right and left of my built-in entertainment center (basically it's a 10 foot wide notch set back 2 feet in the wall). OR I'd be cool with great bookshelf fronts.

 

If I go bookshelf fronts, what 3 would people suggest for LCR and match well with in ceiling surrounds?

coachkapps is offline  
post #4 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 10:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 2,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 165
I have the Martin Logan dynamo 300 and it is a crappy sub! Haven't heard the 500...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
Elihawk is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,301
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

I was impressed with the Martin Logan Dynamo 500 sub. Should I not be? It kicked butt on the others that I demo'd but I didn't hear a ton so my knowledge is limited.

Yeah, I would guess since my soffit is 7 feet, putting in ceiling for fronts would be incredibly dumb.....just what I thought. I'd like to utilize the two walls just to right and left of my built-in entertainment center (basically it's a 10 foot wide notch set back 2 feet in the wall). OR I'd be cool with great bookshelf fronts.

If I go bookshelf fronts, what 3 would people suggest for LCR and match well with in ceiling surrounds?
Sure you can be impressed by the Martin Logan Dynamo 500, so problem with that. But spend the same $500 on an SVS PB-1000 and you will be even more impressed on what your $500 got you. Its a better subwoofer

Matching surrounds is not as necessary as matching the front 3.

How much you looking on spending on speakers alone, 2k or does that 4k your speaker and receiver budget.
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #6 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post


Sure you can be impressed by the Martin Logan Dynamo 500, so problem with that. But spend the same $500 on an SVS PB-1000 and you will be even more impressed on what your $500 got you. Its a better subwoofer

Matching surrounds is not as necessary as matching the front 3.

How much you looking on spending on speakers alone, 2k or does that 4k your speaker and receiver budget.

I'll look into those better subs that have been suggested.

 

I'm definitely interested in a great front 3.

 

The $4k is for everything. Assuming about $1250-1500 for TV, 500-750 for Receiver leaves me $2k+ for sub ($500) and speakers ($1500). This is where suggestions are most welcome. What's a great set of front 3 (books? towers? walls?).

 

Thx.

coachkapps is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 01:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Sure you can be impressed by the Martin Logan Dynamo 500, so problem with that. But spend the same $500 on an SVS PB-1000 and you will be even more impressed on what your $500 got you. Its a better subwoofer

Matching surrounds is not as necessary as matching the front 3.

How much you looking on spending on speakers alone, 2k or does that 4k your speaker and receiver budget.

+1
mark62 is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 01:22 PM
Member
 
GTA Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
-I own a PB-1000 and I'm very pleased with it. +1000 to any poster suggesting you avoid the big box stores for your sub. Now, I have a 2700 cubic foot room, if the total volume of your space is much more than that you really should consider spending more than $500 on a sub.

-Nothing wrong with the Denon X2000, decent price for an AVR with MultiEQXT

-Bookshelf speakers for LCR are definitely better than in ceiling, however if the whole front of the room is a built in media center you may want to avoid rear ported speakers. Despite their name, putting a bookshelf speakers in a bookshelf will often result in poor sound, especially wrt muddy bass. In-wall speakers installed within an enclosure in your media cabinet may work out better.
GTA Beancounter is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter View Post

-I own a PB-1000 and I'm very pleased with it. +1000 to any poster suggesting you avoid the big box stores for your sub. Now, I have a 2700 cubic foot room, if the total volume of your space is much more than that you really should consider spending more than $500 on a sub.

-Nothing wrong with the Denon X2000, decent price for an AVR with MultiEQXT

-Bookshelf speakers for LCR are definitely better than in ceiling, however if the whole front of the room is a built in media center you may want to avoid rear ported speakers. Despite their name, putting a bookshelf speakers in a bookshelf will often result in poor sound, especially wrt muddy bass. In-wall speakers installed within an enclosure in your media cabinet may work out better.

I like the idea of walls for fronts and ceilings for surrounds. Suggestions?

Let's assume $2k for sub and speakers. I may do $500-800 for sub so $1200-1500 for speakers.
coachkapps is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 05:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zieglj01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,852
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Liked: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

I like the idea of walls for fronts and ceilings for surrounds. Suggestions?

Let's assume $2k for sub and speakers. I may do $500-800 for sub so $1200-1500 for speakers.

Boston VSi series - real good prices on this series - Boston makes good stuff
http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=search&search_query=bosvsi&x=0&y=0

__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
zieglj01 is online now  
post #11 of 22 Old 01-20-2014, 06:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

I like the idea of walls for fronts and ceilings for surrounds. Suggestions?

Let's assume $2k for sub and speakers. I may do $500-800 for sub so $1200-1500 for speakers.

wall would be best for the surrounds also.

i think your budget split seems right.
mark62 is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 04:50 AM
Member
 
GTA Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark62 View Post

wall would be best for the surrounds also.

.

I agree that wall is better for surrounds in most instances but I think the OP's side walls are 17' from the MLP which presents limitations, especially since he'll have an open area on one side and a wet bar on the other and these areas would come between his side mounted speakers and the MLP.

I installed a budget 5.0 system for my in-laws using the speakers in the link below, and the cheapest Onkyo Sub available and came away very impressed with the sound, in that install the rears are ceiling mounted and I aimed the tweeters towards the back wall which helps to diffuse the sound somewhat and makes for a nice sound field for the rear. My in-law's system at $600 all in including the speakers, AVR and Blu-ray player sounds quite good. In that case, the in ceiling rears were necessary because of the asymmetric room which was open on one side of the HT.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=6035&seq=1&format=2

Given your room, you may be best off considering a 5.1 system as your couch will probably be up against the rear wall given the 12' depth of the home theatre section. With that being the case I'd look for bipole or dipole in ceiling speakers for the rears, if you can't find any than you can pretty much go with any in ceiling speaker with a tweeter you can aim, if it were me I'd go with something similar to the monoprice speakers for the rear but bit higher end... HTD perhaps? Save a bit on the rear speakers by going this route and get yourself an SVS PB-2000 for $799 smile.gif
GTA Beancounter is offline  
post #13 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA Beancounter View Post


I agree that wall is better for surrounds in most instances but I think the OP's side walls are 17' from the MLP which presents limitations, especially since he'll have an open area on one side and a wet bar on the other and these areas would come between his side mounted speakers and the MLP.

I installed a budget 5.0 system for my in-laws using the speakers in the link below, and the cheapest Onkyo Sub available and came away very impressed with the sound, in that install the rears are ceiling mounted and I aimed the tweeters towards the back wall which helps to diffuse the sound somewhat and makes for a nice sound field for the rear. My in-law's system at $600 all in including the speakers, AVR and Blu-ray player sounds quite good. In that case, the in ceiling rears were necessary because of the asymmetric room which was open on one side of the HT.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=6035&seq=1&format=2

Given your room, you may be best off considering a 5.1 system as your couch will probably be up against the rear wall given the 12' depth of the home theatre section. With that being the case I'd look for bipole or dipole in ceiling speakers for the rears, if you can't find any than you can pretty much go with any in ceiling speaker with a tweeter you can aim, if it were me I'd go with something similar to the monoprice speakers for the rear but bit higher end... HTD perhaps? Save a bit on the rear speakers by going this route and get yourself an SVS PB-2000 for $799 smile.gif

Official room size: 34' x 12'.

 

Of that, the north 10' will be a wall and bar area. The south 10' is an open area (wall is a bedroom). The middle area 14'x12' is the HT area. The soffit directly above the entertainment center is 7'. The built-in is 12' x 2' set back in the wall. The soffit extends from the built-in out to about 5-6' leaving 8' ceilings running to the back wall. If my math is correct, the room is about 3000 cubic feet.

 

I'm interested in hearing that SVS PB-2000. Where? Do they have retailers?

 

I'm liking the idea of in-wall speakers on the L/C/R with how that soffit goes. The L/R ones would be about 14' apart.

coachkapps is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

.

coachkapps is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 06:05 AM
Member
 
GTA Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

Official room size: 34' x 12'.

Of that, the north 10' will be a wall and bar area. The south 10' is an open area (wall is a bedroom). The middle area 14'x12' is the HT area. The soffit directly above the entertainment center is 7'. The built-in is 12' x 2' set back in the wall. The soffit extends from the built-in out to about 5-6' leaving 8' ceilings running to the back wall. If my math is correct, the room is about 3000 cubic feet.

I'm interested in hearing that SVS PB-2000. Where? Do they have retailers?

I'm liking the idea of in-wall speakers on the L/C/R with how that soffit goes. The L/R ones would be about 14' apart.

SVS is an internet direct company so you won't be able to demo their product in store, but they are VERY reputable with great customer service and a great in home trial policy. The PB-2000 has just been released, it is a replacement for their PB-12 NSD. The 2000 is just slightly bigger than the PB-1000 but it has a 12" driver, about 200 more watts of amplification and a very nice frequency curve. In your 3000 cubic foot space I'd go with a pair of PB-1000s or a single PB-2000 depending on budget.

There are certainly other internet direct companies that are worthy of consideration for your sub... HSU, Rythmik, Outlaw, PSA etc. among others.
GTA Beancounter is offline  
post #16 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 06:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,301
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post


I'm interested in hearing that SVS PB-2000. Where? Do they have retailers?
They are an internet direct company so the money they save without the middle man gets passed on to you. The best place to demo speakers is in your home/listening room. A lot of these demo rooms are set-up perfectly to get the best possible sound not always possible.

SVS does offer a risk free 45 day in home trial of their product. Many internet direct companies offer that to make up for the fact that you can't really go listen to them in a store. Personally I prefer the in home trials to listening to speakers in a treated sound room
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #17 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
coachkapps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post


They are an internet direct company so the money they save without the middle man gets passed on to you. The best place to demo speakers is in your home/listening room. A lot of these demo rooms are set-up perfectly to get the best possible sound not always possible.

SVS does offer a risk free 45 day in home trial of their product. Many internet direct companies offer that to make up for the fact that you can't really go listen to them in a store. Personally I prefer the in home trials to listening to speakers in a treated sound room

So let's talk a little about these subs. I'm pretty cool with up to like 800 bucks. Out of all those companies listed, who's got advice on a few to consider? Or do I just compare specs online myself and make a decision? I'd prefer to hear advice or suggestions before that big a purchase.

 

Thanks!

coachkapps is offline  
post #18 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mark62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: N.W. Pa.
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

Official room size: 34' x 12'.

Of that, the north 10' will be a wall and bar area. The south 10' is an open area (wall is a bedroom). The middle area 14'x12' is the HT area. The soffit directly above the entertainment center is 7'. The built-in is 12' x 2' set back in the wall. The soffit extends from the built-in out to about 5-6' leaving 8' ceilings running to the back wall. If my math is correct, the room is about 3000 cubic feet.

I'm interested in hearing that SVS PB-2000. Where? Do they have retailers?

I'm liking the idea of in-wall speakers on the L/C/R with how that soffit goes. The L/R ones would be about 14' apart.


http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box
mark62 is offline  
post #19 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 08:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
crazyrob425's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,301
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

So let's talk a little about these subs. I'm pretty cool with up to like 800 bucks. Out of all those companies listed, who's got advice on a few to consider? Or do I just compare specs online myself and make a decision? I'd prefer to hear advice or suggestions before that big a purchase.

Thanks!
$800 for a subwoofer can go a long way. Here are the ones in your price range to look at:
HSU VTF-3 Mk4
SVS PB-2000
Rhythmik LV12R

Keep in mind you need to pressurize the full basement since it is all open to get proper bass, with your budget you will have no issue doing that.

With subwoofer I personally look for their frequency response to see how they can go. However, most mainstream companies lie out of their asses on their specs. Alot of these internet direct subwoofers are bought by enthusiasts who will test their manufacturer's claims so they stick to them.

Warranty and an in-home trial periods are other great things to look at.

One great place to look is in the Subwoofer forum as they have owners threads for most of these subwoofers with the actual owners giving you their personal opinions on the matters.
crazyrob425 is offline  
post #20 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 09:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 2,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Best subs I have heard...the EMPtek1010i and the SVS Pb-1000. These two are both very good and very comparable in SQ. I haven't heard a lot of the better subs, I have heard the Klipsch synergy, Rw12d, Martin Logan dynamo 300 and SLS subs.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
Elihawk is offline  
post #21 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 10:17 AM
Member
 
GTA Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachkapps View Post

So let's talk a little about these subs. I'm pretty cool with up to like 800 bucks. Out of all those companies listed, who's got advice on a few to consider? Or do I just compare specs online myself and make a decision? I'd prefer to hear advice or suggestions before that big a purchase.

Thanks!

Given the size of your room you want to go ported (vs. sealed) as it would take a lot more than $800 worth of sealed subs to give you the output you need.

My suggestion depending on your budget...

$500 SVS PB-1000
$600+ Rythmik LV12R
$800 SVS PB-2000
GTA Beancounter is offline  
post #22 of 22 Old 01-21-2014, 10:19 AM
Member
 
GTA Beancounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 166
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

$800 for a subwoofer can go a long way. Here are the ones in your price range to look at:
HSU VTF-3 Mk4
SVS PB-2000
Rhythmik LV12R



One great place to look is in the Subwoofer forum as they have owners threads for most of these subwoofers with the actual owners giving you their personal opinions on the matters.

Be very careful when treading into the Subwoofer forum, there are "enablers" there that will have you multiplying your budget in no time.... biggrin.gif
GTA Beancounter is offline  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off