Advice on Replacing a dead Surround system - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 01-28-2014, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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My Bose Lifestyle 12 Series II system died after almost 15 years. I am looking for a new system to replace it. It is in my living room that is about 24' by 18' ( the 18 is from the TV to the seating area). Looking back at this system i was not all that impressive I think I just got caught up in their great marketing. I am looking to stay under $1000 and have done a little research. I am looking at the Sony DN 840 AVR or the Onkyo TX-NR626. I have also come across the Energy Take Classic speakers which sound like a good speaker system at a reasonable price point. I would probably go with the 5.0 system and upgrade the sub a notch or two. I am far from an expert on this stuff and have come up with this info from searching online. Looking for some advice on which AVR would be the best choice and what subwoofer you can recommend.

 

Looking at the prices here is where I am:

 

Sony DN 840 - $398.00 at B&H free shipping no Tax

Energy Take Classic 5.0 $213.90 at Vann's free shipping no Tax

 

Going with the Sony it leaves me just under $400 and I still need a subwoofer. If I go with the Onkyo I am left with $300.

 

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Rick

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post #2 of 17 Old 01-28-2014, 10:48 PM
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Somewhere to start ...

AVR: With a budget of 1K I'd spend less on the AVR. Among other things it's the component you'll need to replace the soonest (ever changing consumer A/V formats, specs, etc. - it's almost impossible to future-proof) Good speakers and sub will be a longer term investment. There are some good Denon, Onkyo and Marantz refurbished units at http://www.accessories4less.com/ for the $200-$300.

Sub: There are a couple of typically recommended entry-level subs in the $150-$200 range (Bic F12, Dayton SUB-1200 or SUB-1500). But your room is large so you might consider a more powerful sub (room size matters because the sub needs to "fill" the room). There are some ID (internet direct) subs at the $500-$550 price point that will work better - SVS PB-1000, also subs from Rythmik and HSU.

Speakers: That's a big room for most satellite speaker systems (like the Energy Take). I'd strongly suggest trying to find some bookshelf size speakers, besides filling the room more easily they will sound better overall and demand less of your sub. Some commonly recommended speakers at your price point are ...
- Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers (2 pair) and SP-C22 center speaker, 5.0 for $350 total.
- Pioneer SP-PK22BS 5.1 system for $450 (Though I would recommend the above option, buying speakers separate and getting better sub.)
- HTD Level 2 book shelves (2 pair) and center, 5.0 for $530 (+ 10% discount for couple more days)
- Cambridge Audio S30 (2 pair) and S50 center ($180), 5.0 for $580.
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post #3 of 17 Old 02-01-2014, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice. Guess I should have mentioned that I need to stay with some speakers around the same size as my old Bose double cubes. So my front and rear speakers need to be a maximum of 7" high to fit my space. I can increase my budget to a total of $1500.00 so maybe this will help. Are there any quality speakers out there in this size range. If possible would like sub to be a maximum of 13.5" wide.

Thanks again
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post #4 of 17 Old 02-01-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester67 View Post

Thanks for the advice. Guess I should have mentioned that I need to stay with some speakers around the same size as my old Bose double cubes. So my front and rear speakers need to be a maximum of 7" high to fit my space. I can increase my budget to a total of $1500.00 so maybe this will help. Are there any quality speakers out there in this size range. If possible would like sub to be a maximum of 13.5" wide.

Thanks again

smaller speakers...

http://www.htd.com/Products/flat-panel-speakers


http://www.amazon.com/Focal-Series-Black-Theater-Speakers/dp/B005IFWZ5U

However that sub is not going to cut it. same below..

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/KEFKHT3005SEWBLK/KEF-KHT3005SE-5.1-Speaker-Package-w/HTB2-Wireless-Subwoofer/1.html
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post #5 of 17 Old 02-01-2014, 08:19 PM
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Since you raised your budget and you want small

Focal Little Bird
2 pair at $299 each
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091LBB/Focal-Little-Bird-Black.html

1 each for the center
http://www.amazon.com/Focal-Little-Bird-Speaker-Black/dp/B005LD2YTG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1391314127&sr=1-1&keywords=focal+little+bird

Since you desire - a 12" wide sub
Focal Cub 3
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/FOCALCUB3BLK/FOCAL-Cub3-8-150W-Powered-Subwoofer-Black/1.html#!more

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #6 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 12:40 AM
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Another option to consider,

5 Cambridge Audio Minx 21's: ~$800-$900
For the sub SVS SB1000: $500

On Amazon the Minx go for $180, but through a dealer you should be able to get it for less and both the CA and SVS fit your size requirements. It might be just a little bit over your budget when you include an AVR but you can trade 2 of the 21's for 11's to use as rears and save ~$200


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post #7 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 05:09 AM
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http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html

Two pairs of those and a center come out to $390. They are a bit over 7" wide. Look up Dennis Murphy and Andrew Jones. Dennis took Andrew's design and improved it. These are probably the most accurate speakers for the money.

For the sub, you won't get good output if you want something small AND cheap. I'd say the minimum should be a PSA XV15:
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15
Or SVS PB2000
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-2000

Receiver: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVRX1000/DENON-AVR-X1000-5.1-Channel-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay/1.html

It should be in the ball park of $1500. Maybe $1600. I can't think you could do much better than that...


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post #8 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannybenz View Post

http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/AALS.html

Two pairs of those and a center come out to $390. They are a bit over 7" wide. Look up Dennis Murphy and Andrew Jones. Dennis took Andrew's design and improved it. These are probably the most accurate speakers for the money.

For the sub, you won't get good output if you want something small AND cheap. I'd say the minimum should be a PSA XV15:
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15
Or SVS PB2000
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-2000

Receiver: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVRX1000/DENON-AVR-X1000-5.1-Channel-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay/1.html

It should be in the ball park of $1500. Maybe $1600. I can't think you could do much better than that...


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+1 to this.

Dennis Murphy / Philharmonic Audio usually does high end bang for the buck speakers (~3000 / pair, custom veneers, etc). He's taken an already good budget Pioneer system and modified it for a very inexpensive system that looks like it will perform very well. I'm going to get some for my cousin - the first batch sold out fast, should be available again soon. I don't think you can do better at this price point.

The suggestion on accessories4less for a refurbed receiver is good. No reason to spend a lot on a receiver as long as it has the features you want.

The sub is important, if you get the Phils, you should have enough for a good ID sub.
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post #9 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 12:05 PM
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The OP mentioned 7" high (not wide) as the limit. The Pioneer's wouldn't work with that.


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post #10 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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First I wanted to thank everyone for all the advice you have shared. I am learning about speaker manufactures I have never heard of before.

 

I have made a more accurate measurement of the room and it is 20 feet by 16 feet. The ceiling is slightly vaulted on one side and it is from 8 feet to 9.5 feet in the center of the room. The floor surface is all hardwood on a raised foundation. The room opens to the right rear to a dining room.

 

I have narrowed the speaker down to two options:

 

Option 1 - Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy 2 pair for front and surround and one center $390.00

 

Option 2 - HTD 2 pair of level two bookshelves and a level two center $527.00

 

Which would you all go with, 1 or 2?

 

I will have to get 2 pair of stands for either option above. Have seen some from about $80 to 140 a pair.

 

My problem comes with the Sub. I only have about 14 inches between the wall and TV stand (could probably stretch it to 15 inches). The other side is where the room goes to dining room so I cannot put the Sub on that side. For this reason as much as I would like one of the larger Subs I think the footprint is just too big.

 

So I was thinking about maybe getting a AVR that would allow me to add a second Sub in the future if I needed one to fill the room. Onkyo TX-NR 626 $370.00 Accessories 4 less. Not sure if I should go with sealed or ported Sub. Not really sure what the difference is. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 $500.00 for either.

 

Thanks again for all your advice. I may be up and running by the end of the month :-).

 

Rick

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post #11 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 03:35 PM
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The Philharmonic AAL is my choice - they are more cohesive sounding, with better definition
and are more clean/clear, smooth and refined

If you can fit the SVS - then go with that subwoofer - for mainly music, I lean towards sealed

Your call

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #12 of 17 Old 02-02-2014, 04:15 PM
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tough choice.....
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post #13 of 17 Old 02-03-2014, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester67 View Post

First I wanted to thank everyone for all the advice you have shared. I am learning about speaker manufactures I have never heard of before.

I have made a more accurate measurement of the room and it is 20 feet by 16 feet. The ceiling is slightly vaulted on one side and it is from 8 feet to 9.5 feet in the center of the room. The floor surface is all hardwood on a raised foundation. The room opens to the right rear to a dining room.

I have narrowed the speaker down to two options:

Option 1 - Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy 2 pair for front and surround and one center $390.00

Option 2 - HTD 2 pair of level two bookshelves and a level two center $527.00

Which would you all go with, 1 or 2?

I will have to get 2 pair of stands for either option above. Have seen some from about $80 to 140 a pair.

My problem comes with the Sub. I only have about 14 inches between the wall and TV stand (could probably stretch it to 15 inches). The other side is where the room goes to dining room so I cannot put the Sub on that side. For this reason as much as I would like one of the larger Subs I think the footprint is just too big.

So I was thinking about maybe getting a AVR that would allow me to add a second Sub in the future if I needed one to fill the room. Onkyo TX-NR 626 $370.00 Accessories 4 less. Not sure if I should go with sealed or ported Sub. Not really sure what the difference is. I was looking at the SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000 $500.00 for either.

Thanks again for all your advice. I may be up and running by the end of the month :-).

Rick

I would go with the Phils. The designers (both for the Pioneer base and the customization) are top notch, and the frequency response in the human hearing range is great for speakers at that price. Use the extra money to get a better sub.

As to getting an AVR with two sub outputs, I have two subs on an AVR with a single sub out. There's nothing special about an AVR with two outputs, except that they put a splitter within the AVR; I have a splitter connected to the single output on my AVR and it performs great. So no benefit from getting one "built in". Just get a splitter like this one when you want to go to two subs (or more).

The subs are self powered, so you're not draining the AVR if you use more.

So I'd go with the Denon X1000 for 349 (as suggested), with the Phils for 390, leaves you with 761 for the sub. If it were me, I'd take that, add 100 and get a Rhythmik Audio F12 for 874 and never have to worry about the sub again. That takes you to 1635.

It would be a killer system.

I have my subs on the wall opposing the TV stand, I just run the cables along the wall with a cable strip that is pretty unobstrusive. It looks fine - otherwise, for something more permanent, you can get quarter round at the hardware store, paint it to match your baseboards and run the cable in the space behind the quarter round.
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I am back. Just when I thought I had finally made a decision. I contacted the guys at Philharmonic Audio to put together an order and got a response back telling me that they have had to suspend sales on the AAM's due to being overwhelmed with orders. So I am back to the drawing board. I am thinking of going to my other option with maybe a small change.

What do you guys think. HTD Level 2 towers for front, Level 2 center, Level 2 bookshelves for surround for $727.

SVS PB or SB 1000 $499. If this doesn't provide enough bass maybe I can add a second sub down the road in the rear.

Denon AVR-X1000 $349. Total $1575.

Plus I will need stands for the surround speakers.

Thanks again,
Rick
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 08:29 PM
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^^^^ That will be a good option

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Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-04-2014, 09:41 PM
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+1
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-05-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester67 View Post

Well I am back. Just when I thought I had finally made a decision. I contacted the guys at Philharmonic Audio to put together an order and got a response back telling me that they have had to suspend sales on the AAM's due to being overwhelmed with orders. So I am back to the drawing board. I am thinking of going to my other option with maybe a small change.

What do you guys think. HTD Level 2 towers for front, Level 2 center, Level 2 bookshelves for surround for $727.

SVS PB or SB 1000 $499. If this doesn't provide enough bass maybe I can add a second sub down the road in the rear.

Denon AVR-X1000 $349. Total $1575.

Plus I will need stands for the surround speakers.

Thanks again,
Rick

I have that HTD set and I am very happy with it.
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