Rocket by Onix: Best speaker for the money EVER? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sorel


I've been wondering what that is all about. I figured that sooner or later someone would fill us in on the scoop. I've said all along that the crossover is where the real "art" comes into play in any speaker design. The 3 big ingredients in any design are the crossover, the quality of the components, and the design and solidity of the cabinet. If I had to single out the most important factor, I would say the crossover. Max, what can you tell us about it?
Bob,

This is what seperates the 750 from the rest of the Rockets. From what little bit I can understand of Dick Pierce's explanation :D this is what is going on with the crossover:

At the highest midrange frequency only the top driver is "firing". At the lower mid frequencies the top two drivers are firing, but the top one is an octave lower (or something like that). At the upper bass frequencies the top three drivers are firing, but now the top driver is two octaves lower and the second driver is one octave lower. Finally, when any lower bass info is sent...all four drivers are firing at the same time. This is why the 750 can have such a low frequency response (all 4 drivers are firing together) yet the small driver size makes them ideal for upper mids as well. This is the best way I can describe it. Maybe one of the other testers can elaborate a bit more.
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post #92 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kudret
MaxC, I returned my damaged C3 and I was waiting for the next shipment to get a replacement. I am now seriously considering to offer to pay the difference and get the RSC200 to complement my (6.1s and 2.1s). Can you elaborate on the differences between C3 and RSC200 - my primary concern is music.
Hmm, for music I usually listen in stereo so I have not done much testing of the RSC200 in this area other than listening for timbre matching across the front...but it can probably be set to large when listening to music, which may be a benefit to some. It is a 3 way design and dual ported, and it can get down pretty LOW for a center channel. For movies, it has the added benefit of a wider "sweet spot". I have also found it a benefit to be able to turn it upside down in order to get the front three tweeters closer in alignment.

I have not tried it in conjunction with my 6.1s, so I honestly cannot say how timbre matched that setup would be. Hope this answers some questions.
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post #93 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 06:50 PM
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I wouldn't mix Rockets and Divas across the front, in fact Mark mentioned this as well on another forum. The Vifa and the 6.1 tweeter are different enough to where the RSC-200 would call attention to itself in an otherwise Diva front array. Aside from this, the Diva cabinets and the Rocket cabinets are quite different in color with the Rockets being a much darker and more reddish color.


Quote:
Originally posted by kudret
MaxC, I returned my damaged C3 and I was waiting for the next shipment to get a replacement. I am now seriously considering to offer to pay the difference and get the RSC200 to complement my (6.1s and 2.1s). Can you elaborate on the differences between C3 and RSC200 - my primary concern is music.
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post #94 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 07:04 PM
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Thank you MaxC and bigwally, I'll stick with C3 (Selling the 6.1s and getting the 750s is not financially possible at the moment.)
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post #95 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 07:10 PM
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Big Wally, MaxC and any others:

What was your preference for music between the Diva 6.1 and the Rocket 750? Why? What type of music?

Thanks
James
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post #96 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 08:22 PM
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I know everyone wants to compare Diva/Rockets to B&W Nautilus (including me), but does anyone have a comment on how they would compare to M&K 150s/THX -- strictly for home theater use(no music)?

Brian

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post #97 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 08:49 PM
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James, I personally would prefer the 750 for all music except may be a few vocals over the 6.1 but then the 6.1 may be able to reach just a tiny bit lower than the 750. Tough decision...

Bob, there have been talk about Dick & Peter putting out a whitepaper on the crossover for an eventual patent. May be you can e-mail or PM Mark for more details.

Brian, top of my head I don't recall any betas being familiar with M&K although I know two of them are in Texas. :) Btw, to me the Rockets esp the 750 are different, quite different from both Diva & B&W.

Cheers.

PF
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post #98 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 10:04 PM
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Hi all,

Well, I guess I'll take this opportunity to ask if any of the Diva owners are selling a pair of their 2.1's. I'd prefer a local pickup, either around the Tampa, FL area or in the Chicago area (I'll be up in Schaumburg the week of July 15th - could I carry these on the plane?!??!?!) I've never heard these, but I guess I'll take a chance on them if there are at all as good as everyone says.

Aaron
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post #99 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 10:49 PM
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Wow, just found this update on the new Rocket line and have been reviewing the AV123 site for details. So who has a complete setup out there to audition. What is the opinion of these compared to the Divas? I am considering the RSS550 / RSC100 / 4x RS150 for a 7.1 setup with my Onkyo 898 Receiver. My room will not really benefit form the RSS300 for side surrounds, so I am considering 4 RS150's along my back/side walls.
Are the RS550's shielded, as I need to place them right next to a 53" RPTV.
Does anyone have a picture of the HUGE RSC200 sitting on a RPTV. I can't imagine the size of that thing in a typical HT setup. Any thoughts ?
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post #100 of 3486 Old 07-06-2002, 10:57 PM
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MaxC,
Quote:
Originally posted by MaxC


What will you be using your setup for primarily, HT or music?...if music what kind?
Thanks for the quick reply but I was away and missed your post. I will be using 80% HT the rest split between stereo and multi channel music.

Thanks for the info,
Ben
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post #101 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 08:59 AM
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Beta testers,

How are you guys positioning the RSC200? It seams that it will be a challenge to put a center this big in a typical home theater. It doesn't look like it will easily go on top of a typical RPTV.

I am toying with either 1) getting a stand and placing it in front of the tv though this may not be a great idea with a 1 year old or 2) building a sturdy shelf attached to the wall above the TV. This seams better but placement may be an issue wrt a good front soundstage since it will be significantly higher than the left and right mains.

Thanks,
Chris
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post #102 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rmassey

Are the RS550's shielded, as I need to place them right next to a 53" RPTV.
Does anyone have a picture of the HUGE RSC200 sitting on a RPTV. I can't imagine the size of that thing in a typical HT setup. Any thoughts ?
Currently the only shielded speaker are the two centers. We (the beta testers) brought this issue up, and it was being considered, but two points brought up were:
1.) this should not affect a RPTV since the guns are pretty protected within the TV and
2.) those with standard TVs would drastically loose soundstage and imaging if they were to put the speakers that close, resulting in a waste of a great pair of speakers.;)

I have my Diva 6.1s (even larger unshielded drivers) right next to my 55in RPTV and there is no problem. I also have the RSC200 on top of my TV upside down and will try to post some pictures today.
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post #103 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris_B
Beta testers,

How are you guys positioning the RSC200? It seams that it will be a challenge to put a center this big in a typical home theater. It doesn't look like it will easily go on top of a typical RPTV.

I am toying with either 1) getting a stand and placing it in front of the tv though this may not be a great idea with a 1 year old or 2) building a sturdy shelf attached to the wall above the TV. This seams better but placement may be an issue wrt a good front soundstage since it will be significantly higher than the left and right mains.

Thanks,
Chris
Stand Mounting is best for MANY reasons...

I know bigwally has a link for these stands... (Hey Walt... send me that link again, O.K.?)...

I'm working on stands in China during this trip too...

ATB...

mls

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post #104 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aproxster
Since my order of Divas 6.1s, 2.1s, C3 and Hsu VTF-2 did not fit on the truck on 7/2, they were still on the loading dock at ********** when I spoke with Sean P. early the morning of 7/3. Learning about the release of the new Rockets from the statement from Mark S. and what I had read at AVS forum including the impressive comments from Codemarine, bigwally, Tinhere and the other beta testers I was very interested in the Rockets.

Sean P. was able to accommodate my desire to become a ROCKETMAN and I changed my order to package "1", (RS750s,RS250s and the RSC200). I am still getting the VTF-2, a bunch of Onix SP200 speaker wires, Onix Blue interconnects, some Thunder cable as well as a custom made sub cable (due to a long run).
The RS250s are not available so Sean P. gave me a two week estimate on delivery and I will try to learn patience.

Not being experienced in audio gear I have spent months researching at AVS forums, local shops and friends and I want to thank the people at **********, and the posters at this forum for all the help I have received while lurking and learning.

To compliment my system anyone have ideas for speaker stands for the RS250s? I would like to get something similar to the 2.1 stands av123 had months ago.

Gary
Welcome aboard...

Thank you ever so much for the kind comments etc.

We are always here to help...

All the best...

mls

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post #105 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichardMA
The best speakers for the money are speakers you build
yourself if you know how. Why? Because the material cost of
speakers is about 1/8-1/10th their final retail price. All the rest is
design, marketing, middle men, etc.
Buy a $220 program like bassbox and their crossover module,
do some reading and make your own. You will be amazed at
what can be done.
Except... we do not work on 8 or 10 : 1 ratios... and in fact, most speaker companies work on less than 6 and most are around 5 : 1...

I would agree though... DIY'ing is a load of fun...

The only *I* have with these comments are custom driver and crossovers are usually better (no in all app's... but most) and this requires WAY MORE than tuning programs...

YMMY...

:)

All the best...

mls

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post #106 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by magelsen
I have just a simple question. I have a quad 6.1, r-3,c-3 package that was ordered prior to the rocket announcement and is now partially delivered. Is there any question as to weather I exchange for rockets or would you keep the divas?

Thanks,

Ben
Hi Ben...

Just give us a call on Monday... and let us work it out for you... :)

That's precisely what we are here for...

All the best...

mls

(BTW... my extension is 301 if I can help in any way... I'll be out for a good part of the day getting stuff for my trip to China on Tuesday)...

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post #107 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by James Elvick
My question is just as simple: I would love a beta tester to directly compare the Diva 6.1 to the Rocket 750:confused: without being so politically correct:D Lay it on the line and give me the straight poop!

The C3 is very good but obviously no match for the Rocket 200 and the Surrounds will probably be a wash. It also seems the 250 will best the 2.1 from most accounts.

TIA
James Elvick
I think many of the beta testers will uncloak themselves soon enough... but some might choose not to...

I placed NO terms on beta testing for us at all... except report back the findings and do ALL of the mods we asked for and report... Each person did this...

If you need further assistance from me personally... just e-mail me at mls@**********

Thanks... and all the best...

mls

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post #108 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxC
I'm am surprised no one has brought up any questions or comments about the patent pending crossover design used in the 750s. This quasi-5 way array design is pretty ingenious.
I've mentioned to Dick that if he wanted to... he could come here and explain the design theories etc. (math and all)... and briefly answer questions...

Those of you that know DP... know you are in for quite a ride.. Dick is very famous and quite popular on RAO, etc.

:D

All the best...

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post #109 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Sorel


I've been wondering what that is all about. I figured that sooner or later someone would fill us in on the scoop. I've said all along that the crossover is where the real "art" comes into play in any speaker design. The 3 big ingredients in any design are the crossover, the quality of the components, and the design and solidity of the cabinet. If I had to single out the most important factor, I would say the crossover. Max, what can you tell us about it?
Hi Bob...

You'll find this data very interesting if I can plod Dick into posting here...

A "Black Art" like X-Overs need explanation... especially the 750 Crossover...

:)

All the best to you Bob...

mls

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post #110 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kudret
MaxC, I returned my damaged C3 and I was waiting for the next shipment to get a replacement. I am now seriously considering to offer to pay the difference and get the RSC200 to complement my (6.1s and 2.1s). Can you elaborate on the differences between C3 and RSC200 - my primary concern is music.
Thanks... and all the best...

mls

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post #111 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rmassey
Wow, just found this update on the new Rocket line and have been reviewing the AV123 site for details. So who has a complete setup out there to audition. What is the opinion of these compared to the Divas? I am considering the RSS550 / RSC100 / 4x RS150 for a 7.1 setup with my Onkyo 898 Receiver. My room will not really benefit form the RSS300 for side surrounds, so I am considering 4 RS150's along my back/side walls.
Are the RS550's shielded, as I need to place them right next to a 53" RPTV.
Does anyone have a picture of the HUGE RSC200 sitting on a RPTV. I can't imagine the size of that thing in a typical HT setup. Any thoughts ?
I'm quite certain you'll see some feedback this coming week as we shipped a HUGE amount of Rocket, and an equally HUGE amount of DIVA...

Challenging week for all of us... and I helped Sean carry his RPTV downstairs into his new sound room (at his new Pad)... :)

All the best...

mls

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post #112 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 09:49 AM
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Signing off for now...

Please e-mail or post any questions for me... and I'll answer them upstream when I get to China...

A big thanks to everyone for your comments, concerns, kudos and questions...

All the best...

mls

Founder and President
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Perpetual Technologies
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post #113 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 10:40 AM
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I have a question regarding the frequency response of the 550/750s vs the 4.1/6.1s. My listening tendencies are mainly music, but HT is important as well. Both the 550s and 750s look great, and fit right in my budget/speaker size categories. However, the specs on both the 750 & 550 seem to coincide closely to the Diva 4.1s which I had the opportunity to audition. Although the 4.1s sounded good, they certainly require a sub for 2 channel stereo(IMO). With the low end frequency specs (38 Hz for 4.1s and 750s, and 40Hz for the 550s) so similar, will the 550s and 750s require a sub as well for 2 channel music? Right now I am narrowed down to Studio 60s or Stratus Silvers, but would definately consider the Rockets if they could handle 2 channel music on their own. I do not have the funds currently for a sub, but will add one in the future. Thanks in advance.

BTW - Do the Rockets have the 30-day trial period as the Divas do?
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post #114 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 10:48 AM
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Why hasn't anyone pinned a rocket support thread to the top yet?
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post #115 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by amheck
Hi all,

Well, I guess I'll take this opportunity to ask if any of the Diva owners are selling a pair of their 2.1's. I'd prefer a local pickup, either around the Tampa, FL area or in the Chicago area (I'll be up in Schaumburg the week of July 15th - could I carry these on the plane?!??!?!) I've never heard these, but I guess I'll take a chance on them if there are at all as good as everyone says.

Aaron
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I am near Schaumburg and had a pair of 2.1s for sale, but they are gone.

There is absolutely *no way* you are going to bring them as carry-on with any airline. The box with packaging materials was 60lbs, and huge (almost too much for me to carry). I almost dislocated a finger carrying it to the UPS counter from my car(seriously). You will have to pack them as luggage and pray they don't get destroyed, or UPS them.

Kevin
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post #116 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MakersNeat
I have a question regarding the frequency response of the 550/750s vs the 4.1/6.1s. My listening tendencies are mainly music, but HT is important as well. Both the 550s and 750s look great, and fit right in my budget/speaker size categories. However, the specs on both the 750 & 550 seem to coincide closely to the Diva 4.1s which I had the opportunity to audition. Although the 4.1s sounded good, they certainly require a sub for 2 channel stereo(IMO). With the low end frequency specs (38 Hz for 4.1s and 750s, and 40Hz for the 550s) so similar, will the 550s and 750s require a sub as well for 2 channel music? Right now I am narrowed down to Studio 60s or Stratus Silvers, but would definately consider the Rockets if they could handle 2 channel music on their own. I do not have the funds currently for a sub, but will add one in the future. Thanks in advance.

BTW - Do the Rockets have the 30-day trial period as the Divas do?
Hi Maker :) Personally, I prefer the RS550 for strictly 2.0 listening. In my experience, the RS550s extend lower than the 750s and have a great balance...though a touch on the warm side (which is a good thing here). For everything but the real low stuff, the 750s do have an edge due to the smaller drivers. So, Sub = no = RS550s...Sub = yes = RS750s. imho ;)

...and yes, the Rockets have the same 30 day trial period and 3 year warranty as the Divas.

I hope that helps.

Sean

Owner - Skiing Ninja Systems
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post #117 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:53 AM
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MakersNeat,

I listened to both the 550's and the 750's for music both with and without a sub and they both do very well. Between the two I found the 750 to have the edge due to it's greater dynamic bass punch. On paper the Diva 6.1's would appear to have greater bass but through A/B testing I found the bass on the 750's to be more convincing. I'm a bona-fide bass junky and a slam freak but I could listen to dynamic music on the 750's all day without engaging my dual SVS rig.
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post #118 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Briol
Why hasn't anyone pinned a rocket support thread to the top yet?
I believe David Bott mentioned in the Diva thread that he would do that if there were enough posts to warrant it...


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post #119 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:55 AM
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Whoops! Sean, it looks like you and I will have to "agree to disagree" on this. :D

With either speaker though, I wouldn't attempt pipe organ music or older Genesis type stuff with the deep bass synths without a sub.
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post #120 of 3486 Old 07-07-2002, 11:58 AM
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