Rocket by Onix: Best speaker for the money EVER? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 06:35 AM
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I am kind of surprised to see some Divas up for sale at various forums, when they (the owners) have not even heard the Rockets yet. Why not just wait for the Rockets to arrive...try the two side by side and then sell one...or keep both. ;) I know that when comparing just the 6.1 and 750 for music, it could come down to personal preference. Just curious.

Max

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post #182 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rmassey
Just a few questions . . .

Is anyone else having a hard time in the WAF area for the huge RSC200.
I think that's a no go for me. Personally I like the understated look of the RSC100.

What would be a suitable sub for the RS550/RS150/C100 package?
HSU VTF-2 or HSU VTF-3. Does av123 offer any discounts for package orders if you include a sub too. $500 and $850 seem a bit much to me.
Not me...the wife loves the RSC200 look and more importantly the sound impact.:p

The sub will depend on the size of your room, how loud you want to go, and how low you want to go. Both can match the setup you listed as long as the room allows for an equal SPL at the volumes you plan on playing them at. Last time I checked the VTF-2 was around $399. Hope this helps.

Max

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post #183 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 07:03 AM
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"I am kind of surprised to see some Divas up for sale at various forums, when they (the owners) have not even heard the Rockets yet. Why not just wait for the Rockets to arrive...try the two side by side and then sell one...or keep both. I know that when comparing just the 6.1 and 750 for music, it could come down to personal preference. Just curious"

why would you be so curious, isn't that the whole arguement against the interenet speakers anyway (hear before you buy) I am willing to bet that since they trusted the guys at AV123 before and it turned out good, that since they now say the "Rockets are better" than the Divas, the same consumers will trust them again. I think it would be much harder to get a pair of interenet speakers the 1st time, the second time (once you know you can trust these guys) is easy.
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post #184 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rodH

why would you be so curious, isn't that the whole arguement against the interenet speakers anyway (hear before you buy) I am willing to bet that since they trusted the guys at AV123 before and it turned out good, that since they now say the "Rockets are better" than the Divas, the same consumers will trust them again. I think it would be much harder to get a pair of interenet speakers the 1st time, the second time (once you know you can trust these guys) is easy.
Agreed, but I could have returned the speakers if I did not like them. Once it is established that I like them, I would not get rid of them until I was sure I liked the others better. Why not just wait a few more days until the new set of speakers come in (just to be sure)...then sell the other ones. I mostly asked just to get this thread going and give it some more hits. ;)

Max

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post #185 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 07:29 AM
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Plus you get the added advantage of A/B'ing them.

Russ Tarvin
If it's too loud, you're too old.
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post #186 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxC
... Why not just wait a few more days until the new set of speakers come in (just to be sure)...then sell the other ones. ...
Not that this is my case, since the first speakers I've ever bought from AV123 are my RS750's, but ... the reason I, presonally, would sell the old pair before ordering the new ones has to do with plain old finances. I couldn't afford (or wouldn't want to) to have both on the CC at the same time ... especialy since I pay my cards off in full when ever there's anything on them. :)

pat----

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post #187 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 09:41 AM
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Pat,
What speakers are you using now? I forgot. Your 750's should be coming in for a landing shortly. I don't think they require the break in time that the Diva's do, but maybe I'm just impatient.

Russ Tarvin
If it's too loud, you're too old.
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post #188 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 09:59 AM
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I had been thinking what a nice upgrade the C3 would be when the Rockets came out. I really like the 750s but the center causes me concern.

The Diva C3 was touted to be an excellent center speaker. Since the RSC 100 is the only other center option in the Rocket series, it would be nice to know how it stacks up to a Diva C3. The RSC200 is just too big for many of us.

The RSC100 doesn't seem much bigger than the B&W CC6 center I'm using now. It also has a different tweeter than the 750 or 550 so timbre matching would concern of mine also. (I know they say it's great but ya' gotta wonder.)

Bottom line: how much better than my CC6 can the RSC100 be? Is it close to the C3? (I have a small room and the CC6 works quite well there.) I wouldn't want to have a mismatch when used with the 750s.
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post #189 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HuskerHarley
  • 10
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  • Blast Off !

We have liftoff of six RS 750s and one RSC 200 heading for Lincoln Nebraska. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Harley
Harley - All I can say is WOW!

You've totally flipped out on us haven't you?;)

(Are you sure you don't NEED a couple more, that way you could invert stack 'em! Ooooo!)

Bruce

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post #190 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rt297
Pat,
What speakers are you using now? I forgot. Your 750's should be coming in for a landing shortly. I don't think they require the break in time that the Diva's do, but maybe I'm just impatient.
Russ,

See the attachment. After last night I've got something over 75 hours on them.
LL

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post #191 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 10:50 AM
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The first time I played the Rockets I found the highs piercing with some sibilance. I was distressed and related my experience to Mark. He told me the fluid in the Vifa might need to settle and to give them some playing time. I did, and now they sound great. I was always leary of "break-in", but to me there is no denying the hiss is gone and the highs sweetened up making the speakers non fatiguing. I think the bass slam increased, but the difference to me wasn't as apparent as the calming of the tweeter. I could have lived with the bass out of the box, but not the highs. If I made my judgement based on my first impression I would have been very diappointed my Diva's were gone. To make a fair judgement give them some playing time.

Brucer,

"Vertical shower of sound?" Well I won't be a drip and say yer all wet. :D
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post #192 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Saylor
I had been thinking what a nice upgrade the C3 would be when the Rockets came out. I really like the 750s but the center causes me concern.

The Diva C3 was touted to be an excellent center speaker. Since the RSC 100 is the only other center option in the Rocket series, it would be nice to know how it stacks up to a Diva C3. The RSC200 is just too big for many of us.

The RSC100 doesn't seem much bigger than the B&W CC6 center I'm using now. It also has a different tweeter than the 750 or 550 so timbre matching would concern of mine also. (I know they say it's great but ya' gotta wonder.)
I mentioned a little bit about the centers on my site:

http://www.geocities.com/dmaaaaax/HT4.html

In short...the RSC200 has better voicing, lower bass, and larger sweetspot than the other two. Then I like the C3 which has slightly better voicing and to me looks better than the RSC100, but the 100 was not far behind (I have the top mounted C3 model).

Max

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post #193 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 12:12 PM
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Pat,
LOL. I meant before the Rockets landed. But never mind, it isn't that important, I was just curious.

Russ Tarvin
If it's too loud, you're too old.
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post #194 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 12:18 PM
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Ditto what Max said about the centers.

Russ Tarvin
If it's too loud, you're too old.
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post #195 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rt297
LOL. I meant before the Rockets landed. But never mind, it isn't that important, I was just curious.
Ah! Sorry. It's been a frazzling day in the office here today. :eek:

For the past few months, since my Outlaw 950 arrived and I moved the 1050 from the dedicated HT in the lower level up to form the heart of my new music system in the living room, I was using a pair of 20+ year old Advent Baby II's (received as a gift sometime before 1979).

Before the 950 arrived the 1050 (same unit now driving the Rockets) was driving four Boston Acoustic VR-M50s and a VR-MC in the Home Theater.

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post #196 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 01:38 PM
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Patrick,

Just to put things in some perspective how do you feel the 750's compare to the Boston VR-M50's in your main theater? I'm just trying to gauge things here.

Thanks,

Matt
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post #197 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 02:26 PM
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Max,

I saw the pictures of your Rocket setup and wanted to ask you a question about the placement of the center speaker. I see you have it right on top of your RPTV. This center speaker is 46 lbs! Isn't this kind of weight going to be a problem for the cabinet of the TV ? I own a Pioneer Elite 52" RPTV and my current center speaker rests on top of it but weights only 13lbs. I have a very curious dog so the idea of using a center speaker stand and put the speaker in front of the TV is not very appealing to me. On top of that the WAF would go way down with such a placement. So I'd like to put the speaker on top of the TV but I'm afraid it may damage the cabinet of my TV. Did you reinforce your cabinet in any way for it to hold this monster of a center speaker ?

Thanks,
MarcW


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post #198 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 02:32 PM
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TinHere, I think Russ & I are with you on the 750 breaking in.

PF
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post #199 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 02:39 PM
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As one of the Divans trying to sell his set, I'm with Pat, regarding finances and trusting the folks at av123. I really liked my 5.1s, and was going to add a second pair or even a pair of 6.1s for a 7 channel setup. Now I would like to step up to 2 pairs of 750s + 1 pair of 250 or 550s, and the 200!! I'm happy I went front projection...I don't know if I could put that monster 200 on a RPTV!

Cheers,

Joe

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post #200 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mjabel
Just to put things in some perspective how do you feel the 750's compare to the Boston VR-M50's in your main theater? I'm just trying to gauge things here. ...
Matt,

It's tough to make a fair comparison. The B.A.'s have over two years of combined heavy HT and music time on them whereas the Rockets have about 75 hours of primarily music. Additionally, for about a year before I received my 950, I had an Outlaw 750 power amp between the 1050 & the Bostons. And lastly, the RS750 has a significantly extended bass range vs the VR-M50's ... so...

Based on memory, I think I'd say that I'm just as pleased with the Rockets now as I was with the Bostons when I bought them. I have always really enjoyed the Bostons when listening to music although, to be fair, I've also always had a subwoofer going at the same time & I don't have one on the current Rockets setup. Of course, the VR-M50s plus a subwoofer is closer in price to a pair of RS750s, so I guess that combination would be fair ...

I did thoroughly enjoy listening to music on the Bostons when driven by the Outlaw 1050. I am thoroughly enjoying listening to music on the Rockets as driven by the 1050. And since I've had them and have actually heard the improvement in sound as they break in, I fully expect to enjoy music on the Rockets even more as time goes on.

You know ... it's really tough to make an apples to apples comparison right now. :)

hmmm ... upon reading what I've written above, I don't think I'm being very helpful, am I? :(

I think what I need to do is to bring a pair of the VR-M50s upstairs and A/B them with the RS750s in the same room and on the same equipment. But that should probably wait another week or two in order to ensure they're completely broken in. Sound fair?

pat----

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post #201 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 07:55 PM
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Well, I've introduced these to the wife as the next purchase...., after just buying an RP91 last week. At first I told her oh no, I don't want that huge center speaker monster, lets just get the C100... but now I have her warmed up to the idea of the C200 and of course the 750s, 250s and a Sub..... (when does it ever end ?) WAF mission #1 - complete. Now if I just had a bazillion shares of WorldCon stock to sell..... I could actually afford this package....
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post #202 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 08:39 PM
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I've already put this on the Diva thread, so I probably don't need to place it here, but just to be thorough:

If you live within driving distance from Ann Arbor:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=153502
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post #203 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer


Harley - All I can say is WOW!

You've totally flipped out on us haven't you?;)

(Are you sure you don't NEED a couple more, that way you could invert stack 'em! Ooooo!)

Bruce

Future News Flash: "Dateline Lincoln, Nebraska: Unusual circumstances surrounding the 'Vaporization" of a local resident......":D
Well Bruce, I have flipped out, actually I have a serious disease it's called "Home Theater" and the cure is upgrading.

I love your explanation: "Vertical Shower Massage of Sound"

Excellent explanation about the way the speakers would work.

What is your opinion about 6 ohms for the six floor standers and 4 ohms for the center speaker do you see any problems here (amplifiers/receivers)?

............................................................ ............................................................

MaxC

About selling Divas before listening to the Rockets, I feel that based on the reputation of Divas and reading what the beta testers (yours was excellent by the way) have been reporting and after talking with Mark and explaining to him that I wanted to buy 4 more 6.1's, he assured me that I would be much happier with the new Rockets and knowing what kind of man Mark is, based on his many years in the business, it was a very easy decision which I made in minutes, this is the kind of decision that is made easy when you deal with a reputable and proven as well as Honest outfit.

Great review and wonderful pictures it really puts the Divas and Rockets in perspective, I showed my Wife the pictures while explaining that the new Rockets were much smaller than the Divas (I think I'll get lucky tonight) she was pleased that the monsters (6.1's) were leaving (I didn't mention that the new center speaker was bigger than the C3 and she didn't notice from your picture how big it is)

Harley
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post #204 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 09:11 PM
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We really should just start a RSC200/WAF thread.... 8=)
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post #205 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 09:21 PM
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Are the Energy Veritas line better speakers than the rockets for my Denon 5803?
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post #206 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pmf
Well said folks. As someone already mentioned earlier, it's not the size of the dog but the bite that counts. :)

PF
Physics says it's the size of the dog. Got to have size to move air. Got to move air to get bass. A lot of air for low bass.
But I do hope the best for all. I'm not in to bookself speakers and feel somewhat that the Diva people have pull one over. We never did get the true unbiased specs for the 6.1's. I was waiting and was prepared to buy four if they measured up. But... will never know now.
I remember Bose and the the , what was it , 12 - 4" speakers making similar claims.
I'm sure these sound much better. For sure.
Full range is all I ask.
Happy Listening. :)
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post #207 of 3486 Old 07-10-2002, 10:35 PM
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Jonn, in your opinion, is THIS bad? Really and truly BAD?

38 Hz to 20 KHz (± 3 dB)

http://www.rocketloudspeakers.com/images/freq750.jpg

remember:

Extreme bottom below 32 Hz
Low bass, bottom octave 20 to 40 Hz

*checks some audio books* what are instruments that go below 38 hz.... uh, contrabassoon, harp, bass, and pipe organ. hmmm.. To me, it looks like we have woofers in these Rockets...

Eep!
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post #208 of 3486 Old 07-11-2002, 02:22 AM
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Ok Gluegun, What instruments go below 38hz is your question.
My answer is Synthesizers and Electronic Keyboards and other devices. I dont listen to pop/rock. Much of my music contains frequencies regularly in the 20 to 30hz range. That's why I need to search more for speakers. I simply want the fullest range speakers I can get in my price range.
This is why Diva has disapointed me. I feel they have downgraded their product's abilities.
Also I dont believe the graph. I dont think these 5.25" speakers are reaching down to 38hz at -3db. Again just my opinion from my experiences.
When an unbiased test is done by a respected magazine or other source we will know. If I'm wrong so be it. But I dont think so.
I'll relate some info from a very respected speaker manufacture's technician that he told me through a phone conversion when I question some printed manufacture specs. From brochure, Mag ads, and on their web site.
In fact it was about the speaker bottom end claims.
He said, "Never, never believe a manufacture's own claims about a speaker's performance. The information on their site and ads was wrong but no one had got around to changing it and probably wouldn't"
I thanked him for his honesty.
Please dont think I'm downing the speakers. Let the market produce what the buyer wants by all means. I admire the company's marketing skills.
Also dont need to "check some audio books". I have the equipment next to me. :)
Enjoy the Rockets.
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post #209 of 3486 Old 07-11-2002, 05:35 AM
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Jonn,

In most cases I absolutely agree with the tech who told you that many manufacturers "airbrush" their specs with regard to bass performance. However in this case I can assure you that the 750 specs you see are brutally honest and accurate as they were measured by Dick Pierce anechoically, no room gain or other gimmickery. Mr. Pierce described his measurement processes to us, they are valid, and if you know anything at all about Mr. Pierce you'll know that he is a "no nonsense" kind of engineer who has ZERO tolerance for BS and snake oil. You can find him on the rec.audio newsgroups where he chews up and spits out hype and unsubstantial claims/theorys on a regular basis. I don't have the equipment to measure publishable specs myself, but for the sake of my own curiosity I have measured 6.1's and the 750 on by back deck (to avoid room gain) using a sine wave generator and a Triplett SPL meter and found nothing contrary to what Dick shows. Nor have my listening experiences with these vs. other larger speakers revealed any shortcomings with regard to this graph.

When playing the lower bass notes the 750's four 5.25" drivers all work together and approximate the cone area and total motor strength of a strong 10" woofer. I'll leave the math to you and would suggest reviewing Hoffman's Iron Law as well as cabinet volume/porting theory. A speaker doesn't necessarily need a large woofer to make great bass. See the Sunfire line of subwoofers, note that the Jr. uses two 6.5" drivers to play quite respectably loud and low as subwoofers go.

If you need more "clean" bass than the 750's can deliver in the 20-40 Hz range you can simply add a sub, or you'll need to look at much larger and more expensive speakers. Their aren't many which I might consider using without a sub on every type of music I enjoy as I listen to a fair share of pipe organ pieces and music with very deep synth bass, but I'd be headed toward the larger models from Dunlavy, VMPS, and Legacy if unable to add a sub. However, I can, and I prefer this approach as I can optimize it's placement to obtain a flatter response and greater SLP over a wider variety of room locations than can be typically accomplished with behemoth loudspeakers.

BTW, if you really must get validation for the specs you could contact Dick Pierce. He is easily found, however I would tread lightly and present your argument in a knowledgable fashion.
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post #210 of 3486 Old 07-11-2002, 06:21 AM
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Jonn, but it's still the bite that delivers. :D

Seriously, when I as well as other betas, first listened to the 750's I thought they actually go lower than the 6.1's (two 8" woofers) with certain passages. Also by sharing bass duty over multiple smaller woofers the 750 can maintain it's uniformly narrow front baffle to minimize diffraction.

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