Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 11 - AVS Forum

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imagic's Avatar imagic
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post #301 of 710
07-16-2014 | Posts: 6,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Did that SEOS comparison ever happen?
It's going to happen, probably August 2nd.
MKtheater's Avatar MKtheater
02:40 PM Liked: 538
post #302 of 710
07-16-2014 | Posts: 14,827
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Cool, love to see great bang for buck stuff!
DavidK442's Avatar DavidK442
04:20 PM Liked: 102
post #303 of 710
07-16-2014 | Posts: 1,253
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<<<<<Waiting with baited breath.
jcr159's Avatar jcr159
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post #304 of 710
07-18-2014 | Posts: 38
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ditto!
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
10:19 AM Liked: 167
post #305 of 710
07-18-2014 | Posts: 3,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
If you do I'll have my measurement gear there. I might be taking one of Joe's 228s outside to measure anyways. We could find out how this thing rocks.
What measurement strategy are you going to use? What measurements are you going to take?
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic
10:48 AM Liked: 666
post #306 of 710
07-18-2014 | Posts: 5,101
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Just an on axis FR. Maybe a GP as well. Not sure Tyee bought a pair though. Sorry.
eggyhustles's Avatar eggyhustles
01:01 PM Liked: 11
post #307 of 710
07-18-2014 | Posts: 138
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Those that cant fit an extra for center channel duties, what is a good substitute?
DocOrange88's Avatar DocOrange88
07:49 PM Liked: 42
post #308 of 710
07-20-2014 | Posts: 142
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I found that the Boston VR12 worked well, until I repalced it with another B212XL. Maybe go B212XL center?

I should note that I am all B212XL up front with JBL 8330A's surrounds.
cegadede's Avatar cegadede
06:16 AM Liked: 13
post #309 of 710
07-23-2014 | Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbon pasta View Post
Old home Theater saw: "Cubic capacity can be replaced by
anything". So I would say a pa Speaker with a 15" woofer or if you have the space for it with two 15" woofers (like the Behringer VP 2520 for Example - for 270 Dollar/Piece)


Anyone tried the VP 2520 for fronts? My Home Theater room is about 350 ftˆ2 and I think a pair of those should make very nice L R speakers (maybe even surrounds, also). Anyone care to chime in?
DocOrange88's Avatar DocOrange88
09:04 AM Liked: 42
post #310 of 710
07-23-2014 | Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cegadede View Post
Anyone tried the VP 2520 for fronts? My Home Theater room is about 350 ftˆ2 and I think a pair of those should make very nice L R speakers (maybe even surrounds, also). Anyone care to chime in?
Check earlier in the thread they are not the same speaker. So it can't be compared. Cross overs are different etc.
corradizo's Avatar corradizo
09:19 AM Liked: 17
post #311 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 110
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Had a friend over this weekend for a few beers to hang out. We were just watching TV, flipping through channels. Aside from having a good time catching up, he was sitting to the far right of the couch, i was sitting in the MLP (of course :-)). I explained how i was working to make a nice grill to hide my subs and 212xl's and got through the whole "these are PA speakers, but they rock for your house" conversation. After a while, he turns to me and goes, "are the big speakers on or is it just the TV?". I promised him that they and the subs were on. He could have sworn the sound was coming right out of the TV, even got up and put his ear up to the speakers to make sure i wasn't pulling his leg! I was all grins and explained that what he was experiencing was the point of my upgrades, that if you didn't see them, you'd think the sound was coming right out of the TV area. That was awesome. Thought I'd share!

Pete
corradizo's Avatar corradizo
09:36 AM Liked: 17
post #312 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 110
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Pics of the grill i made from MLP. I think I will need some sort of side panels and it's really see through. I haven't attached it to the sub yet, it's just leaning up against it. If i built some solid wood panels for the sides, would that trash the sound of the subs/mains? The brighter pic is with can lights a few feet away, darker pic is with them off. WAF is still an issue. The sketchup pics show what i'm thinking for the sides, would paint them black i suppose.

thanks,

Pete
Attached: 20140728_102152.jpg (122.6 KB)  20140728_102227.jpg (118.5 KB)  2014-07-28 10_33_42-speaker screen.skp - SketchUp Make.png (33.5 KB)  2014-07-28 10_34_28-speaker screen 2.skp - SketchUp Make.png (41.4 KB) 
aijan's Avatar aijan
10:43 AM Liked: 11
post #313 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 7
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I bought a pair of B212XL's a few days ago based on the recommendations on this thread, and I must say I am very happy with them so far. The vocal clarity is amazing and these can get really loud without noticable distortion, but what really surprised me is the huge soundstage. My previous mains (admittedly entry-level Energy CB-20's) were toys compared to the Behringers.

I don't think buying a third one for the center is necessary because of the huge soundstage the mains are throwing. I put them on my two subs flanking my 100" screen and voices lock on the center just right. Besides without an acoustically transparent screen, an LCR setup would not be optimal. I am now convinced that a center channel is unnecessary with speakers like these thanks to their controlled directivity horns unless you have a really large screen.

One thing I have noticed that these speakers have a dip centered between 5-7 kHz. These being PA speakers, the dip is probably intentional to avoid sibilance. I think this dip is partly responsible why vocals are so clear. I have attached the in-room response of the Behringers from my listening position (about 3 meters from the speakers). 1/3 octave smoothing. I have applied only a few cuts below 120 hz to tame room resonances. Other than that there is no EQ. My room is treated with bass traps on the corners and at first reflection points. The bass response is flat down to about 12 hz with the help of my two subs.

I have already sold my Energy LCR setup, and am enjoying my B212XLs. They sound great and are very revealing, but sometimes I find them sound a little flat for a lack of better word. Perhaps, the 5-7 kHz dip is responsible for that. What do you think?
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
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post #314 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 3,744
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Hi aijan,

Can you switch the scale from logarithmic to linear? Also if measuring inside can you measure slightly closer at like 1M?
aijan's Avatar aijan
01:41 PM Liked: 11
post #315 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 7
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Hi Nick,

The linear scale looks really distorted to me. I prefer to use the logarithmic scale if you do not mind. I have taken new in-room measurements, and it looks like I somehow made a mistake with my original measurement. You can see the new 3m listening position measurement of both speakers and the 1m on-axis measurement of a single speaker below.

The wide 5-7 kHz dip is largely gone on the new 3m measurement. As for the 1m on-axis measurement, there is a dip centered roughly between 3-4 kHz which is consistent with the B215XL measurement Mark posted earlier.

Note: The 100hz crossover is still in effect (these speakers do not normally roll off that early).
Attached: b212xl_3m_corrected.png (71.6 KB)  b212xl_1m_on_axis.png (72.0 KB) 
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
01:56 PM Liked: 167
post #316 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 3,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aijan View Post
Hi Nick,

The linear scale looks really distorted to me. I prefer to use the logarithmic scale if you do not mind. I have taken new in-room measurements, and it looks like I somehow made a mistake with my original measurement. You can see the new 3m listening position measurement of both speakers and the 1m on-axis measurement of a single speaker below.

The wide 5-7 kHz dip is largely gone on the new 3m measurement. As for the 1m on-axis measurement, there is a dip centered roughly between 3-4 kHz which is consistent with the B215XL measurement Mark posted earlier.
Thats cool I just wanted a peek at both, I think log is preferred by most. There seems to be something going on with your measurements. What mic are you using?
aijan's Avatar aijan
02:03 PM Liked: 11
post #317 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 7
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The measurement mic I am using came with my Harman Kardon AVR 255 (EU model). It is not very accurate, but it clearly shows me the problem areas.
NicksHitachi's Avatar NicksHitachi
02:07 PM Liked: 167
post #318 of 710
07-28-2014 | Posts: 3,744
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Thats cool, if you cutoff below 80Hz in the window settings you can see more relevant info...

Is a waste to see the graph down into the teens on that speaker.

Nice work!
aijan's Avatar aijan
03:59 AM Liked: 11
post #319 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 7
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I was curious about the parts Behringer used in B212XL and after searching Google for a while, I came up with the following images. The woofer does not look very impressive. Is that a single 6.5" ferrite magnet? I don't know much about crossovers though. So, can anyone comment about the parts used on the crossover? Are those aircore inductors for example?
Attached: b212xl_woofer.jpg (186.4 KB)  b212xl_cd_crossover.jpg (75.7 KB) 
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic
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post #320 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 5,101
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Hey aijan

Those do look like air core inductors and poly caps. Decent looking XO, though I would have thought beefier resistors for PA (totally adequate for the home environment). Only legitimate concern I see, is that PA components usually require a lot of effort to make smooth and this XO looks too simple to do that. They probably could have linearized the frequency response more with a more complex XO, but that would increase the cost of the speaker and is also not that desirable for PA use. I might sound like a broken record, but this is the draw back to using PA speakers in the home. The goals are different. One other thing, scale is tough to tell, but the size of the components tells me they crossed high. Again, for PA this is desirable to achieve greater power handling, but when it comes to midrange clarity the woofer breakup starts to become the enemy. I'm speculating at this point because I don't know for sure the component values. Another broken record thing I keep repeating. The only PA XO I've seen that defies this problem is the Yorkville U215. Its XO is complex and high quality.

The woofer does look to have a small motor. The stamped steel frame is also quite large with little room for ventilation. I have to speculate, can't say for sure, but its possible they're over exaggerating their sensitivity on the spec sheet (it is Behringer, and I do buy their products so that isn't a snob comment), or the cone is very light to make up for the weak motor. If the later, then woofer break up with begin fairly low in the frequency response but could be a gentle ripple rather than a sudden spike of SPL.

All these decisions I see in the design on the part of Behringer is consistent with a value orientated PA speaker. Thankfully in this day and age, these affordable products no longer mean absolute crap. Behringer undoubtably spend a good chunk of engineering time designing the XO well, to achieve those targets. Not just a simple off the shelf XO that simply protect the tweeter.

Sorry I have to speculate a little bit rather than know for certain. More photos would help. I haven't followed this thread thoroughly. Just lightly since imagic posted his review.
aijan's Avatar aijan
09:13 AM Liked: 11
post #321 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 7
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Hi tuxedocivic,

Thanks a lot for your comments. Much appreciated. According to the Behringer specs, the crossover frequency is 1.9kHz and the sensitivity is 95db/1w/1m (full space). I agree that the motor is on the small side, but the magnet does not look much different from the one used on the more expensive QSC K12 woofer (see below). That one has a bumped backplate though.

The woofer cone looks like treated paper fiber. To my ears, the vocal clarity is great when watching movies at near reference levels (listening position is 3m away, speakers crossed over to the subs at 100hz). So, I don't think the woofer cone breakup is very obvious.
Attached: k12_woofer.jpg (45.5 KB) 
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic
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post #322 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 5,101
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1.9khz makes sense for the size of components in there. Which is probably right below the break up. Maybe some breakup in the pass band. No doubt it sounds better than common speakers at reference. But I wouldn't doubt that a more high fidelity XO could be developed if that was Behringer's goal.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea
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post #323 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 6,764
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how'd the Behringer 215 hold up at the Gorilla83 meet for popalock's sendoff today against the Yorkville 215 and the Triad Platinum and 1099?
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15
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post #324 of 710
08-02-2014 | Posts: 6,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
but its possible they're over exaggerating their sensitivity on the spec sheet (it is Behringer, and I do buy their products so that isn't a snob comment.

Wait a minute, so you're telling me that my iNuke 6000 isn't really putting out 6000watt of power?.....lmao


Dammit.
imagic's Avatar imagic
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08-03-2014 | Posts: 6,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
how'd the Behringer 215 hold up at the Gorilla83 meet for popalock's sendoff today against the Yorkville 215 and the Triad Platinum and 1099?
I had to go before we listened to the Yorkvilles. Versus the Triad and the 1099, the B215s did great. In fact, they survived extreme testing, where the volume at the listening position was hitting 115 dB—the B215s never lost their composure. To my ears, the biggest difference (which was minor) involved treble; the B215s struck me as slightly less bright. That was sometimes a good thing as it allowed the B215s to avoid some of the (occasional) sibalence that showed up on the 1099s.

I think it would be very interesting to include the B215s in blind testing of far more expensive speakers—they are that good. If I had any doubts about exactly how good the B215XLs perform, yesterday's experience erased those doubts. I could not believe how well they held up against the Triads, which cost about 30 times more per pair.
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic
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post #326 of 710
08-03-2014 | Posts: 5,101
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Where can we go to hear about people's impressions? I don't see a thread.
imagic's Avatar imagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Where can we go to hear about people's impressions? I don't see a thread.
Gorilla said he might start a thread about yesterday's activities. It was more informal than prior GTGs.
tuxedocivic's Avatar tuxedocivic
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post #328 of 710
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^ found the thread, thanks.
NWCgrad's Avatar NWCgrad
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post #329 of 710
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Compared to some of the other speakers at Rilla's GTG I thought these speakers were less refined in the high frequencies (I found them to have less detail and got a bit congested at some pretty high volumes). I was pretty surprised by how well they held up under high power and in direct comparison to some very good speakers.

For the price they are stupid good!!! I would think 7 of these paired with quality DIY subs would satisfy most listeners. When considering all 7 would cost less than $1,500 from any music store it is rather amazing.
imagic's Avatar imagic
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post #330 of 710
08-03-2014 | Posts: 6,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Compared to some of the other speakers at Rilla's GTG I thought these speakers were less refined in the high frequencies (I found them to have less detail and got a bit congested at some pretty high volumes). I was pretty surprised by how well they held up under high power and in direct comparison to some very good speakers.

For the price they are stupid good!!! I would think 7 of these paired with quality DIY subs would satisfy most listeners. When considering all 7 would cost less than $1,500 from any music store it is rather amazing.
That last track that Popalock played, honestly I'd never ask for more from a $200 speaker. Yes, the heavy-hitters handle the extreme levels better, or rather with a bit more finesse and precision, than a B215XL, but still... I never go that loud at home.
Tags: Behringer B215xl Passive Speaker Pair , Pioneer Elite Sc 55 Sc55 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Behringer , B 52 Lx 1515v3 1000w Dual 15 Pa Speaker , B 52 , Behringer Eurolive B212d Active 550 Watt 2 Way Pa Speaker System With 12 Inch Woofer And 1 35 Inch C

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