Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 414 Old 09-14-2014, 09:30 PM
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That said, I'm sure my Behringers could sound a bit sweeter if I had Pass Labs amps.

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post #392 of 414 Old 09-14-2014, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Just sayin', if I had the amps Sandy Gross used to power the triton Ones, there's a chance they'd sound a bit better than they do playing via my Pioneer Elite receiver. Maybe not, but there's good reason to believe those amps outperform what I'm using, if only because the speakers themselves can handle a fair bit more power than my AVR produces. That's about all I was saying, and of course Pass Labs amps are pretty much impeccable. I'm not trying to debate if amps sound much different from each other or not.

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post #393 of 414 Old 09-15-2014, 02:06 AM
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Have a few days off this week and are going to try the 212`s with XTZ AP100 (50w class A) instead of my no-name PA-amp. Don`t expect huge differences, but have to try anyhow. Do you guys use toe-in? I prefer generous toe-in with waveguide speakers.
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post #394 of 414 Old 09-15-2014, 06:58 AM
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What is the major difference between the 12's and 15's? Woofer only? Anyone heard both?

I do understand the difference between the 15 and 12" horns.

I posted above about my usage for them but didn't hear anything back. I want to order one or the either but is there a big sound difference between the two? I see the 15" seem to go to 20k vs the 18k for the B12XL Odd.

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post #395 of 414 Old 09-15-2014, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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What is the major difference between the 12's and 15's? Woofer only? Anyone heard both?

I do understand the difference between the 15 and 12" horns.

I posted above about my usage for them but didn't hear anything back. I want to order one or the either but is there a big sound difference between the two? I see the 15" seem to go to 20k vs the 18k for the B12XL Odd.
Larger woofers have narrower dispersion, which is accounted for by the narrower dispersion of the horn on the B215s, as compared to the B212s. I prefer the narrower dispersion of the B215s for use as L/R mains, but for surrounds I'd use B212s. I have not performed a direct A/B comparison between the two. However, I have considered adding a pair of 212s as my surrounds. If I do, I'll compare the two, for sure.

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post #396 of 414 Old 09-15-2014, 11:15 PM
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Well I got them today from my DJ guy. Played them quite loud this afternoon without realizing how loud they were. I guess the low distortion can cause that. Played with them tonight for a couple of hours too. They are very dynamic compared to my supposedly audiophile like speakers. I've never used horns before so it's quite a difference. I don't expect any of the audiophile qualities of floating instruments between the speakers with horns and I don't think I got that. They were only about 6 ft. apart in my listening area so if I move them wider it would probably be better. I'm still testing, running through all my test CDs. I wanted to get a Yorkville PS12P to compare it but that will have to wait for next week. Haven't played a movie yet, only music. I'm not sure on the 15" vs the 12". 12" might be better for voice but I don't have that one around to compare. Either way looks like I will purchase this type of speaker, it's just which make and model will suit my tastes. I heard the 1099's in July and a few others too, but that was in a different environment. Also heard the 1099's in the exact spot where these B215XLs are currently. I prefer the 1099's from what I remember. It's hard to say what they had that I preferred. I guess the multi drivers helped with instrument separation and soundstage. Anyway my search goes on.

Tried playing with the toe in and that makes quite a difference too. Crossed just in front of the listening position sounds very good. I wish I could move them further apart and see how the stage gets bigger.

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post #397 of 414 Old 09-17-2014, 12:52 AM
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Has anyone thought about trying something else in the line, like the B2520 Pro?
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post #398 of 414 Old 09-17-2014, 09:12 AM
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Has anyone thought about trying something else in the line, like the B2520 Pro?
They are not the same speaker, this is discussed earlier in the thread. Design, components and other elements are different so it can't really be compared.
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post #399 of 414 Old 09-17-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I've opened 'em ep. Pics coming soon. Also, I'm going rogue with my B215s. I'll post an update shortly.
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post #400 of 414 Old 09-17-2014, 03:23 PM
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I've opened 'em ep. Pics coming soon. Also, I'm going rogue with my B215s. I'll post an update shortly.
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Going rogue aye? Building your own enclosures for them?
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post #401 of 414 Old 09-17-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Going rogue aye? Building your own enclosures for them?
I'm actually going open baffle... but yeah. The backs are already off, and I'm listening to them right now.

Peter Lyngdorf and the Steinway Lyngdorf demo at CEDIA inspired me. Peter does not even remotely care if a driver is flat, he'll let EQ fix that. His speakers were all open baffle 2-ways. I looked at the B215XLs and said OK, the front baffle is one piece, if I take the back off and work the EQ I'll be OK."

Except in reality, I did not need any EQ at all. Instead, all I had to do was cross over the open baffle B215XLs at 100 Hz and call it a day. It sounds so good, I feel guilty about how simple the whole process was. Pics coming soon.

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Last edited by imagic; 09-17-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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post #402 of 414 Old 09-18-2014, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are the innards of a B215XL

DSC06562 by ImagicDigital, on Flickr

DSC06555 by ImagicDigital, on Flickr

DSC06546 by ImagicDigital, on Flickr
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post #403 of 414 Old 09-18-2014, 06:51 AM
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If it were mine, I would remove and short circuit that bulb fuse. IDK how much it would matter but its unnecessary for home audio and does nothing positive in that application.
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post #404 of 414 Old 09-18-2014, 07:06 AM
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For sure. It's there to limit output during big peaks. In other words, cause compression. Short it out.

The magnet looks quite small so I'm guessing a high Q driver. Thus open baffle wouldn't totally kill the bass. There are many technical issues I have with doing that otherwise, but if you're enjoying it, go right ahead.

Thanks for sharing. I've wanted to see the guts of this one for a while.
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post #405 of 414 Old 09-18-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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For sure. It's there to limit output during big peaks. In other words, cause compression. Short it out.

The magnet looks quite small so I'm guessing a high Q driver. Thus open baffle wouldn't totally kill the bass. There are many technical issues I have with doing that otherwise, but if you're enjoying it, go right ahead.

Thanks for sharing. I've wanted to see the guts of this one for a while.
I'm actually amazed that the compression driver is as well-made as it is. The bulbs are gone already. Open baffle is definitely working for me, my sump basin subs are breaking up the back wave. Without EQ, they measure very favorably compared to having the enclosures on, so there's that.

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post #406 of 414 Old 09-18-2014, 10:50 AM
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Ya it looks like a good unit, especially for a budget speaker. And the components in the XO are good too. You should see the Paradigm speaker I have open in my shop right now, the XO is 1 electrolytic cap and 1 iron core inductor and 1 resistor. Total junk.

Open baffle will extend the directivity down below the woofers usually omni frequency. So it makes sense if you're getting less room interaction. And like I mentioned, that woofer is probably a suitable unit for OB. Going OB might not work so well with other speakers.

My concerns would be a dipole peak right around 400 or 500hz. You can't eq those. Most guys go 4way active to avoid them. But they're also hard to hear. The other would be power handling. Excursion will go up quite a bit, even with the higher 100hz XO. And eq will add to that issue if needed. So you win some and you lose some
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How do I short out the fuse...?

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post #408 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 04:29 AM
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How do I short out the fuse...?
Assuming it just pulls out, just use a piece of wire to jumper the sockets direct to one another. Just make sure its a solid connection with wire of decent size.
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post #409 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Assuming it just pulls out, just use a piece of wire to jumper the sockets direct to one another. Just make sure its a solid connection with wire of decent size.
There is some sort of soft glue/sealant that presumably keeps the bulb from shaking loose, but it's very easy to remove.

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post #410 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Ya it looks like a good unit, especially for a budget speaker. And the components in the XO are good too. You should see the Paradigm speaker I have open in my shop right now, the XO is 1 electrolytic cap and 1 iron core inductor and 1 resistor. Total junk.

Open baffle will extend the directivity down below the woofers usually omni frequency. So it makes sense if you're getting less room interaction. And like I mentioned, that woofer is probably a suitable unit for OB. Going OB might not work so well with other speakers.

My concerns would be a dipole peak right around 400 or 500hz. You can't eq those. Most guys go 4way active to avoid them. But they're also hard to hear. The other would be power handling. Excursion will go up quite a bit, even with the higher 100hz XO. And eq will add to that issue if needed. So you win some and you lose some
A peak like that is not obvious in my initial measurements but I'll be on the lookout. As for excursion, I just ran some tests and there's zero issue, I got the system up to dangerous volume levels running sine waves between 80 and 150 Hz—the woofer barely gets moving and it's already intolerably loud.

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post #411 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tyee View Post
Well I got them today from my DJ guy. Played them quite loud this afternoon without realizing how loud they were. I guess the low distortion can cause that. Played with them tonight for a couple of hours too. They are very dynamic compared to my supposedly audiophile like speakers. I've never used horns before so it's quite a difference. I don't expect any of the audiophile qualities of floating instruments between the speakers with horns and I don't think I got that. They were only about 6 ft. apart in my listening area so if I move them wider it would probably be better. I'm still testing, running through all my test CDs. I wanted to get a Yorkville PS12P to compare it but that will have to wait for next week. Haven't played a movie yet, only music. I'm not sure on the 15" vs the 12". 12" might be better for voice but I don't have that one around to compare. Either way looks like I will purchase this type of speaker, it's just which make and model will suit my tastes. I heard the 1099's in July and a few others too, but that was in a different environment. Also heard the 1099's in the exact spot where these B215XLs are currently. I prefer the 1099's from what I remember. It's hard to say what they had that I preferred. I guess the multi drivers helped with instrument separation and soundstage. Anyway my search goes on.

Tried playing with the toe in and that makes quite a difference too. Crossed just in front of the listening position sounds very good. I wish I could move them further apart and see how the stage gets bigger.
You do need to toe in controlled directivity speakers. I get tons of precise imaging with floating instruments and voices out of by B215s, so hopefully with some experimentation you'll find an arrangement that gives you those audiophile qualities.

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6 days, somewhere between 20-25 hours in front of the B212 now. They integrate so well with my 18" subwoofers it is pure bliss. I obviously had major phase issues with my old setup because I have turned down the subs many db over this week. Many db first, and gradually some more. Somewhere around 8db I think. What I find strange is that I did not have the bass I have now even when my old speakers was set to same xo frequency...

My setup sounds very good right now.
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post #413 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 08:00 AM
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A peak like that is not obvious in my initial measurements but I'll be on the lookout.
It won't be. Its hard to see any wave front coming off the speaker at 500hz in room, especially something that behaves like a dipole peak (changes quickly off axis). And it can't be eq'ed even if you did see it. But like I said, you may not notice.
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post #414 of 414 Old 09-19-2014, 08:37 AM
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You do need to toe in controlled directivity speakers. I get tons of precise imaging with floating instruments and voices out of by B215s, so hopefully with some experimentation you'll find an arrangement that gives you those audiophile qualities.
I think toe-in has more to do with dispersion characteristics and power response than it has to do with controlled directivity, although the two have become synonymous.

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