Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 2358 Old 10-25-2014, 07:35 AM
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I don't remember if this has been answered already, but do these speakers do well at seating locations outside of the MLP or is the sweet spot more localized?
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post #452 of 2358 Old 10-25-2014, 10:29 PM
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I don't remember if this has been answered already, but do these speakers do well at seating locations outside of the MLP or is the sweet spot more localized?
By design I would imagine they would be more localized. Waveguide speakers have a more focused sound pattern.
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post #453 of 2358 Old 10-26-2014, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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By design I would imagine they would be more localized. Waveguide speakers have a more focused sound pattern.
Its dispersion is wide enough to cover typical home theater seating, not just the MLP.

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post #454 of 2358 Old 10-26-2014, 12:25 AM
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Its dispersion is wide enough to cover typical home theater seating, not just the MLP.

I'm not saying it won't, but I wouldn't want one 2ft from my head as a surround. I know they are an excellent value but it wouldn't be my first choice as a surround. But I'm sure if someone wanted to use on as a surround it would work just fine, just wouldn't be something I'd want or something I would recommend to someone.

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post #455 of 2358 Old 10-26-2014, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I'm not saying it won't, but I wouldn't want one 2ft from my head as a surround. I know they are an excellent value but it wouldn't be my first choice as a surround. But I'm sure if someone wanted to use on as a surround it would work just fine, just wouldn't be something I'd want or something I would recommend to someone.
I agree you on this. Unless you have a big room or you are going 5.1 and want to put two of these in the back corner, I might use them. I have an EOS 8 for side and rear surrounds. I'm going to move my sides to heights and rebuild my sides because I think that the dispersion is too tight for the sides. These would be way tighter.

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post #456 of 2358 Old 10-26-2014, 08:05 AM
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I have a pretty wide seating area with two rows about 6-8 seats across at 14-16 feet from the speakers. The room is 22'x19' (LCR on the 19' wall). It sounds like the Behringers may be tough in that space. Although given the seating distance, would that ameliorate some of the issues? I know the CX-10s have been talked about a lot on recent threads as well. I assume those would cast a wider sweet spot, correct?
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post #457 of 2358 Old 10-30-2014, 11:15 PM
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Here is what I've come up with in my basement/media room this year. It has been a very fun project to plan and piece together. The Behringers sound really really good to me. There are three 215XLs behind the AT Falcon screen (excellent screen too BTW), and two sets of 212XL serving as heights and wides. Surrounds are Axiom QS8s and the subs are FV15HP Rythmik. Projector is a JVC RS-65 and the second/mirror screen is a 27" computer monitor on a swing arm to use when playing music or games. AVR is a Denon X4000 and an Oppo 103 is used for blurays.

Going from five channels to nine so far has been a blast! We watched Snowpiercer tonight and the train sounds created a pretty cool effect where it sounded like the room was riding along on the train. I am also having a lot of fun letting the Denon process Pandora on all channels as well.

Here are some pictures of the room, the first is right behind the MLP:
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post #458 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 08:22 AM
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For a 7.1.4 Atmos setup what would you recommend for ceiling speakers? My ceiling is not that high so i cannot get away with ceiling mounting these guys.
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post #459 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 08:25 AM
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I've just bought 3 of these and joined the club. Has anyone played around with trying to eq some more midbass out of these speakers? I have lots of power on tap so I want to see how low I can get them to play.
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post #460 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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For a 7.1.4 Atmos setup what would you recommend for ceiling speakers? My ceiling is not that high so i cannot get away with ceiling mounting these guys.
I'm thinking hard about that. Wide dispersion is the main requirement for ceiling speakers, so Behringers, or any other horn-loaded design, would not be ideal anyway. I'm looking at high-quality bookshelf or satellite speakers that have some provision for mounting.

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post #461 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I've just bought 3 of these and joined the club. Has anyone played around with trying to eq some more midbass out of these speakers? I have lots of power on tap so I want to see how low I can get them to play.
Yes, I switched for my AVR to a Crown XTi-2002 that has parametric EQ. If you are bold and have the power, you can get 'em to play flat down to 50 Hz or so with enough headroom to make yourself deaf. I have found usable output down to 35 Hz. The woofers are very under-utilized. The EQ compensation is not going to be subtle, and it would give an audiophile purist a heart-attack.
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post #462 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:11 AM
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I'm thinking hard about that. Wide dispersion is the main requirement for ceiling speakers, so Behringers, or any other horn-loaded design, would not be ideal anyway. I'm looking at high-quality bookshelf or satellite speakers that have some provision for mounting.
When I made a comment about these speakers having a more focused dispersion and might not be ideal for surround use you said that it would be fine to use as surrounds. So if its goo enough to use as surrounds why not Atmos? They are both similar applications.
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post #463 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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When I made a comment about these speakers having a more focused dispersion and might not be ideal for surround use you said that it would be fine to use as surrounds. So if its good enough to use as surrounds why not Atmos? They are both similar applications.
But they are not similar applications at all. It's the vertical dispersion that's an issue with horn tweeters. The B215's cover the horizontal spread just fine, which works for regular surrounds. But on the ceiling, you want the same dispersion in all directions.

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post #464 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:23 AM
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But they are not similar applications at all. It's the vertical dispersion that's an issue with horn tweeters. The B215's cover the horizontal spread just fine, which works for regular surrounds. But on the ceiling, you want the same dispersion in all directions.

Okay gotcha, I guess that's why lots of people are saying a good coax driver would make a good Atmos speaker.
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post #465 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:32 AM
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Yes, I switched for my AVR to a Crown XTi-2002 that has parametric EQ. If you are bold and have the power, you can get 'em to play flat down to 50 Hz or so with enough headroom to make yourself deaf. I have found usable output down to 35 Hz. The woofers are very under-utilized. The EQ compensation is not going to be subtle, and it would give an audiophile purist a heart-attack.
Thanks, that is great to hear! I have an old Emotiva LPA-1 with 125 watts per channel that should give them some power. What setting did you use for your parametric EQ? I will probably start by using the parametric EQ that is built into my UMC-200.
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post #466 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay gotcha, I guess that's why lots of people are saying a good coax driver would make a good Atmos speaker.
That is 100% correct and Andrew Jones used coax drivers in his Atmos-enabled speakers for just that reason.

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post #467 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:40 AM
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That is 100% correct and Andrew Jones used coax drivers in his Atmos-enabled speakers for just that reason.

If I decide to go with Atmos I've already talked with Jeremy from Reaction Audio about it, I have his CX-15's and CX-8's in my theater right now and REALLY like them. He's using some really nice Radian coax drivers in his speakers, I'm sure they'd do nicely!...
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post #468 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, that is great to hear! I have an old Emotiva LPA-1 with 125 watts per channel that should give them some power. What setting did you use for your parametric EQ? I will probably start by using the parametric EQ that is built into my UMC-200.
It's going to be room dependent, but you are going to have to cut at port tune and then boost below that. Below port tune the B215XL behaves like an open-baffle speaker, meaning it needs a huge boost to equalize it.

I removed the enclosures on my B215s, they run as actual open-baffle speakers not. My EQ curve is way different than what it would be with the enclosure on. I have mine boosted 6 dB at 50 Hz, with a Q of 1.


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post #469 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for the help. Couple of questions.
What is the port tune of these speakers?
How would I setup a cut off using a parametric EQ? What would the highest frequency after this cut off that I could potentially start boosting?
Looks like I will need to break out my room eq wizard equipment again
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post #470 of 2358 Old 10-31-2014, 11:55 AM
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Careful eq'ing and using any speaker below port tuning. Excursion rises very quickly and if you like big SPL and lots of bass, you may damage the woofer. Now, Behringer may have built in some kind of protection. Such as running out of BL at high excursion, or some kind of suspension arrestor. But then that means the speaker will heavily compress. Also, port tuning shift 90 degrees out of phase from the rest of the system, so sub integration becomes an issue. Just keep these things in mind. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.
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post #471 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 03:12 AM
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It's going to be room dependent, but you are going to have to cut at port tune and then boost below that. Below port tune the B215XL behaves like an open-baffle speaker, meaning it needs a huge boost to equalize it.

I removed the enclosures on my B215s, they run as actual open-baffle speakers not. My EQ curve is way different than what it would be with the enclosure on. I have mine boosted 6 dB at 50 Hz, with a Q of 1.

Why are you doing that? What does the fr measure like?

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post #472 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 03:19 AM
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Question

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Careful eq'ing and using any speaker below port tuning. Excursion rises very quickly and if you like big SPL and lots of bass, you may damage the woofer. Now, Behringer may have built in some kind of protection. Such as running out of BL at high excursion, or some kind of suspension arrestor. But then that means the speaker will heavily compress. Also, port tuning shift 90 degrees out of phase from the rest of the system, so sub integration becomes an issue. Just keep these things in mind. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.
There is no port tune now, Mark is running his speakers open baffle. I don't see how he'd be getting much at 50Hz no matter how much eq applied. I'm not that knowledgeable about speaker design, so I don't even know what that would do, but I would imagine it cancel all bass response, and cause lots of nasty room reflections and associated frequency response issues, unless heavily treated (absorption) behind the front baffle that is shown in the pic.

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post #473 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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There is no port tune now, Mark is running his speakers open baffle. I don't see how he'd be getting much at 50Hz no matter how much eq applied. I'm not that knowledgeable about speaker design, so I don't even know what that would do, but I would imagine it cancel all bass response, and cause lots of nasty room reflections and associated frequency response issues, unless heavily treated (absorption) behind the front baffle that is shown in the pic.
Not all the bass is cancelled. Here's a plot of just the two B215XL speakers running full-range, measured from my main listening position.

I was specifically inspired by Peter Lyngdorf of Stenway Lingdorf. I met him at CEDIA where the S/L Atmos demo was the best I heard. Peter mentioned that he did not care if a speaker measures flat because in his approach (which uses open-baffle speakers) everything gets equalized based on in-room measurements. Therefore, anechoic flat response is not a necessity. I decided to try the hacked, zero budget version of that. I like the results, what else can I say.


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post #474 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 05:22 AM
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Careful eq'ing and using any speaker below port tuning. Excursion rises very quickly and if you like big SPL and lots of bass, you may damage the woofer. Now, Behringer may have built in some kind of protection. Such as running out of BL at high excursion, or some kind of suspension arrestor. But then that means the speaker will heavily compress. Also, port tuning shift 90 degrees out of phase from the rest of the system, so sub integration becomes an issue. Just keep these things in mind. I certainly wouldn't recommend it.
There is no port tune now, Mark is running his speakers open baffle. I don't see how he'd be getting much at 50Hz no matter how much eq applied. I'm not that knowledgeable about speaker design, so I don't even know what that would do, but I would imagine it cancel all bass response, and cause lots of nasty room reflections and associated frequency response issues, unless heavily treated (absorption) behind the front baffle that is shown in the pic.
I was referring to what ShepP wanted to do below port tune. But I also happen to agree with you on imagic's setup. That also runs the dangers.
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post #475 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I was referring to what ShepP wanted to do below port tune. But I also happen to agree with you on imagic's setup. That also runs the dangers.
It sounds good and works in my room, and that's all I ask of any system. I'm not suggesting what I did is the right approach, but to my ears it's as valid as any other speaker design with no obvious audible issues, although I'm sure plenty of people could find plenty of flaws. However, let's not forget the price of these over-achieving speakers.

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post #476 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 05:48 AM
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Which is why I haven't criticized what you've chosen to do. I could tell you a hundred theoritical reasons why it's bad, but you like it, so sure.

But for ShepP using eq below tuning, and anyone reading about your method, I'm just noting the serious power handling risks. If you aren't clanking the woofers the way you have them, then you're either listening quiter than most people, or the woofers are stopping before they should (compression). There's no law of physics these woofers are breaking.
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post #477 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 05:53 AM
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Very interesting Mark. I would have expected a much different frequency response. That's corrected by EQ? If so, do you happen to have a raw capture of the uncorrected open baffle use? I'm legitimately curious how much EQ has to be applied to make that work. I'm surprised you can get it to work at all. Again I'm not a speaker designer, like tux and have very limited experience - so surprise is all I can muster without experience to now how it works. I'm just thinking back to the several times I've run a subwoofer driver free air and you basically hear nothing out of the driver, even at high excursion levels, because without a cab the driver movement cancels out lower frequencies - so I'm surprised you can even get output in subwoofer territory - 50-80-120hz range on your chart.

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post #478 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 06:04 AM
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As aside, I recently stuffed my Mackie C200 speakers with poly fill. The response after the stuffing measured a bit smoother than before, and distortion and bass decay numbers were slightly better. Since the Mackie C200 and Behringer B215XL both have similar plastic enclosures - It may be possible that the Behringer owners in this thread would also benefit from stuffing their Behringer speakers with polyfill. Thanks to the DIY guys for the suggestion.


Here is my experiment documentation. Post 31 from this thread:
Mackie C200 - under the hood




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In the interest of following up on some advice from the DIY guys I performed a little additional testing today on the Mackie C200. I was advised to stuff poly fill in the C200 cab and see if that helped the speaker. Here are the results of that test. For the test a crossover of 80hz was used. The Onkyo PR-SC5508 was the source, Pure Direct mode on the Onkyo was used to bypass all AVR EQ functions. A Crown XLS-202 amp bridged was connected to one 8ohm Mackie C200.



The test results seem to indicate the polyfill helped smooth the frequency response below 1Khz, at the expense of some spl around port tune.
The red line is the 10 capture average of the native frequency response of the C200 speaker.
The blue line is the 10 capture average of the poly stuffed frequency response of the C200 speaker.



Here are the distortion measurements stock


Here are the distortion measurements poly stuffed



Here is the bass decay stock


Here is the bass decay poly stuffed



measurement pictures








stuffing pictures


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post #479 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Which is why I haven't criticized what you've chosen to do. I could tell you a hundred theoritical reasons why it's bad, but you like it, so sure.

But for ShepP using eq below tuning, and anyone reading about your method, I'm just noting the serious power handling risks. If you aren't clanking the woofers the way you have them, then you're either listening quiter than most people, or the woofers are stopping before they should (compression). There's no law of physics these woofers are breaking.
Well, it works. It's certainly not that I listen to lower levels overall, and if there is dynamic compression it is not entering the equation at anything even remotely normal volume-wise, at least in my small space (roughly 12x18) where I am seven feet from the speakers. But I agree that readers should heed your warnings.

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post #480 of 2358 Old 11-02-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Very interesting Mark. I would have expected a much different frequency response. That's corrected by EQ? If so, do you happen to have a raw capture of the uncorrected open baffle use? I'm legitimately curious how much EQ has to be applied to make that work. I'm surprised you can get it to work at all. Again I'm not a speaker designer, like tux and have very limited experience - so surprise is all I can muster without experience to now how it works. I'm just thinking back to the several times I've run a subwoofer driver free air and you basically hear nothing out of the driver, even at high excursion levels, because without a cab the driver movement cancels out lower frequencies - so I'm surprised you can even get output in subwoofer territory - 50-80-120hz range on your chart.
Here's a measurement from (roughly) the same spot. No EQ, pure/direct mode stereo. Two sweeps, one at my normal listening levels, and one rather loud sweep.

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Mark Henninger
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