Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 22 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 815 Old 12-22-2014, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
So I need to cross over and not feed the bass below 80hz, I was hoping I can just use my sub to fill in and leave the full signal fed to the 212? Maybe the boxy sound I hear would be gone if I crossover?
Yeap, I would cross them over at 80hz they need a sub, feeding them anything under 80hz seems kind of pointless. They can certainly produce sound below that but there is no point to send them the signal if you have your sub setup to them at a cross over at 80hz.

They are not a bassy speaker, you might find that "boxy" sound goes away, I know when I switched over to 80hz it majorly improved everything.
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post #632 of 815 Old 12-22-2014, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Chaves View Post
They have active versions of their speakers
They are not the same speaker we are talking about the B215XL and B212XLs here unpowered. The parts to the speaker are different for the powered ones. They can not be compared.
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post #633 of 815 Old 12-22-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post
They are not the same speaker we are talking about the B215XL and B212XLs here unpowered. The parts to the speaker are different for the powered ones. They can not be compared.
youre really bored I gather? Anyhow I noticed others mentioned the active speakers and the question popped into my head so I figured I would ask given the members talking in this particular thread, chill lol...

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post #634 of 815 Old 12-22-2014, 11:44 PM
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youre really bored I gather? chill lol...
Rude? "chill, lol..."

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post #635 of 815 Old 12-22-2014, 11:46 PM
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Hooked up both Behringers but they are on only about six feet apart from the center of the woofers for now, until I move the other speakers out of the way. I also have them set at a rake angle similar to my other speakers and tweeters height about the same. Not experiencing much soundstaging affects yet I guess because of the positioning. Running the sub but haven't tried to crosssover yet, not sure I can with my existing gear. Needed to crank the gain on the sub to keep up with the 212's, as they are quite a bit more efficient.


I think they would be more than good enough for HT use for me because of the clear forward voice reproduction. Next steps are to move the Vapors out of the way adjust the 212's positioning, recalibrate the bass response of speakers and sub up to 130hz which worked fine for the Cirrus. I can experiment with different calibrations using the Dspeaker.

I will also check the room response and see how they compare. All I can say for sure. is they offer great bang for the buck as others in thread experienced. Just listened to Greateful Dead Touch Of Gray and the clarity, dynamics and cymbal crashes were impressive.
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post #636 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 06:22 AM
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I just ran a full range frequency sweep test and before calibration there is a big hump centered around 110hz, I guess this shows the "boxy" or bass coloration I hear. The response graph from 200hz to 2khz looks a bit flatter than the Vapors. It could just mean the Berhingers design and type of drivers are working good in this room. It is a long narrow basement room with low drop ceilings. I recently treated the front area above the drop ceiling with insulation and absorption panels at the front wall boundaries and this helped the bass response. But still not very speaker friendly room size, I believe.

I am guessing the Vapors would measure better upstairs in a more typical sized room. I don't want my posts to reflect anything negative towards the Vapor speakers, they are very good speakers.

I see Imagic removed the screen on the compression horn and others removed the grills. What improvements could I hear if I try it?
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post #637 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 10:23 AM
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Okay, I am sorry for all these posts. I have off work and the weather sucks today... Have the Behringers placed further apart and calibrated the bass. Really helped with the "boxy" sound of the bass. The compression horn and high efficiency design is definitely a different flavor of sound than I am used to. I can see how if not done right, this type of speaker would be overbearing, and cause quick ear fatigue at least to my sensitive ears.

My thoughts so far compared to what I am used to hearing, taking with a grain of salt, as they say. More forward sounding emphasizes vocals some. More pronounced treble, as in cymbal crashes are more pronounced and dynamic, sorta like this as I have a bit of upper frequency hearing loss. But the treble is not as refined and clean to me but still good IMO, a trade off that I may end up liking. Overall the imaging is not as precise and soundstaging not as impressive, the speakers don't "disappear" like the Vapors seem to do.

To sum it up Id say its a vivid, punchy, dynamic sound that lacks a bit of refinement, but enjoyable to me so far. And maybe closer to "live" sounding sound which I think some people would prefer, verse the more laid back warmer sound I am used to.

I'll tinker some more and spend more time listening and see how long it takes till I miss the Vapors...
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post #638 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
To sum it up Id say its a vivid, punchy, dynamic sound that lacks a bit of refinement, but enjoyable to me so far. And maybe closer to "live" sounding sound which I think some people would prefer, verse the more laid back warmer sound I am used to.

Awesome feedback! I wonder if the directional range of the B212XLs might be causing them to sound more direct rather than room filling. I know imagic has talked about how the B215XLs are even more directional than the 212s due to the horn. I'm guessing and maybe you know if the vapors have a wider spread? A slightly more direct sound is normally ideal for films, but I can see maybe for music it is less ideal. I can agree the speakers do add a live feel but I think it may have more to do with the compression driver.
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post #639 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post
Awesome feedback! I wonder if the directional range of the B212XLs might be causing them to sound more direct rather than room filling. I know imagic has talked about how the B215XLs are even more directional than the 212s due to the horn. I'm guessing and maybe you know if the vapors have a wider spread? A slightly more direct sound is normally ideal for films, but I can see maybe for music it is less ideal. I can agree the speakers do add a live feel but I think it may have more to do with the compression driver.
Thanks, the Vapors have a Raal ribbon tweeter. Not sure how wide the spread is, but at least in my room they are sensitve to placement, very small changes in toe-in and placement change the sound. Not sure I even ever had them set-up to full potential in my room. Also (believe it or not) I lost a bit of "magic" to the sound when I placed the big TV and AV gear behind the speakers. They work best without anything near them other than some basic room treatments.

Been watching the TV with the Behringers playing and love the clarity of voices. Next I'll play some action movies, I am pretty sure that will be impressive.
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post #640 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 12:26 PM
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Some information about the drivers:

B212XL:

Woofer ref 12W200D8, price 44.09€ inc VAT

used in:

EUROLIVE VP1220
EUROLIVE VP1220F



B215XL:

Woofer ref 15W1000B8, price 68.12€ inc VAT

used in:

QVP1520
QVP2520
VP1520
VP2520
XPP1520XL


Sub B1800X PRO:

Woofer PRO18SW400D8, price 153.86€ inc VAT


Tweeter: 44T30H8

66€

used in: B212, B215, XPP1220, XPP1520, B212XL, B212XL-WH, B215XL, B215XL-WH, Type X71-60440-00125

Membrana Behringer 1.75" 44T60/SP price 24.00€ inc VAT

used in:

EUROLIVE B112D
EUROLIVE B1220D
EUROLIVE B1220 PRO
EUROLIVE B212XL
EUROLIVE B215 XL
EUROLIVE VP1520D
EUROLIVE VP2520
EUROLIVE B315D
EUROLIVE B312D


Source: http://www.audiosistemas.net, http://megamusicstore.eu/index.php?r...duct_id=116075


So, as far as I can see, the VP2520 and VP1520 have exactly the same woofer but a different tweeter ?

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post #641 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
Okay, I am sorry for all these posts. I have off work and the weather sucks today... Have the Behringers placed further apart and calibrated the bass. Really helped with the "boxy" sound of the bass. The compression horn and high efficiency design is definitely a different flavor of sound than I am used to. I can see how if not done right, this type of speaker would be overbearing, and cause quick ear fatigue at least to my sensitive ears.

My thoughts so far compared to what I am used to hearing, taking with a grain of salt, as they say. More forward sounding emphasizes vocals some. More pronounced treble, as in cymbal crashes are more pronounced and dynamic, sorta like this as I have a bit of upper frequency hearing loss. But the treble is not as refined and clean to me but still good IMO, a trade off that I may end up liking. Overall the imaging is not as precise and soundstaging not as impressive, the speakers don't "disappear" like the Vapors seem to do.

To sum it up Id say its a vivid, punchy, dynamic sound that lacks a bit of refinement, but enjoyable to me so far. And maybe closer to "live" sounding sound which I think some people would prefer, verse the more laid back warmer sound I am used to.

I'll tinker some more and spend more time listening and see how long it takes till I miss the Vapors...
Thanks for taking the time to post all your thoughts. I'm loving hearing what you think.

How toed in do you have the Behringers? Could you try toeing them in a lot and seeing how soundstage changes? Try pointing the right speakers at your leftmost listening position and vice versa. This is how they suggest setting up the SEOS speakers from diyaudiogroup, so I wonder if the horns on the Behringers would benefit in the same way.

If you had to directly compare the B's to your Vapors for critical music listening, how close do they come to the Vapors performance? 80%? 90%?

Thanks again!
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post #642 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 12:53 PM
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@imagic I loved your review of the SVS Prime towers. Wondering if you could give a quick comparison on performance between those and these guys.
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post #643 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 01:00 PM
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If any of you don't care for the sound of the B215 XL you probably won't like the sound of the Fusion 12 Tempest. They sound quite similar to my ears. I still have a single Behringer I'll put up front for a CC. I've only listened to music with the Tempest so far but will watch a movie this evening. I would say if you already have the 215's there's not much if any benefit doing a Tempest build. My ears speaking of course. I bought them because I was able to snag them off craigslist at a very good price.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21152&v=3
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https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3

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post #644 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 01:28 PM
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These type of speakers require heavy toe in, 45 deg and should cross a bit in front of the MLP. This is how I made my 212's disappear. Miss them. See this post http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...sages/266.html
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post #645 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 01:40 PM
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You guys have me convinced to try some to put against my DR-250's. I like my 250's better than Yorkville U215's so it will be tough to beat!

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post #646 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGiantPeach View Post
Thanks for taking the time to post all your thoughts. I'm loving hearing what you think.

How toed in do you have the Behringers? Could you try toeing them in a lot and seeing how soundstage changes? Try pointing the right speakers at your leftmost listening position and vice versa. This is how they suggest setting up the SEOS speakers from diyaudiogroup, so I wonder if the horns on the Behringers would benefit in the same way.

If you had to directly compare the B's to your Vapors for critical music listening, how close do they come to the Vapors performance? 80%? 90%?

Thanks again!
I have the 212's toe-in set that the center of the horn is aimed at about the center of my seating position, Havn't tinkered with it since that initial set up. Probably could improve things some from adjusting, but never owned this type of speaker so not sure how sensitive to this they are. Also the speakers are not level, there's a bit of rake angle similar to my Vapor speakers. Need to experiment with that too, maybe they should be closer to or at level. The tweeter is pretty close to ear height, a tad higher I think. All these things can be tweaked, but maybe these speakers aren't real picky.

I wouldn't know how to rate a comparison in percentage, plus they are very different designs. Each with different goals in the design.. Anyway, I think most would be satisfied with these for HT. Music is harder to get right whatever right is, people can't agree on that. look at all the different types of speakers with fans of each type.
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post #647 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 03:30 PM
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These type of speakers require heavy toe in, 45 deg and should cross a bit in front of the MLP. This is how I made my 212's disappear. Miss them. See this post http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...sages/266.html
Thanks, I will try more toe-in not quite at 45 deg. How close to the sidewalls did you prefer?
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post #648 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 06:34 PM
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Thanks, I will try more toe-in not quite at 45 deg. How close to the sidewalls did you prefer?
My room is 14' wide so I put them about 36" in and about 15" from the back wall for normal use. This gives a soundstage that is wide but not so deep.

So after doing some digging, i found a great thread on THS. So one night, I tried this

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...8/topics/71050

I was able to produce a profoundly deep and wide soundstage with my 212's angled at 45deg crossing in front of my face and my 2 Subs in 2.1 setup. The speakers were not placed anywhere near where they would look normal though - out in the middle of the space.

Take note that I'm a novice and have not heard a great deal of good or even great speakers. One thing I found really cool about the experience was when I tired some classical music (I think Mozart, I wasnt into classical so much at the time - I'm dabbling now as a result) and it sounded like the violinist was farther back than the physical wall boundry and the sound was locked on coming from one specific point in the space to the right. It sounded so real, I was amazed!!
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post #649 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
My room is 14' wide so I put them about 36" in and about 15" from the back wall for normal use. This gives a soundstage that is wide but not so deep.

So after doing some digging, i found a great thread on THS. So one night, I tried this

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...8/topics/71050

I was able to produce a profoundly deep and wide soundstage with my 212's angled at 45deg crossing in front of my face and my 2 Subs in 2.1 setup. The speakers were not placed anywhere near where they would look normal though - out in the middle of the space.

Take note that I'm a novice and have not heard a great deal of good or even great speakers. One thing I found really cool about the experience was when I tired some classical music (I think Mozart, I wasnt into classical so much at the time - I'm dabbling now as a result) and it sounded like the violinist was farther back than the physical wall boundry and the sound was locked on coming from one specific point in the space to the right. It sounded so real, I was amazed!!
Hey you're local to me! I find the same thing. However my previous experience has been with mostly silk or titanium tweeters. I really feel like the compression driver changes it completely. Maybe there is some sceince to this as to why compression sounds more "real" more easily?
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post #650 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 08:31 PM
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Hey you're local to me! I find the same thing. However my previous experience has been with mostly silk or titanium tweeters. I really feel like the compression driver changes it completely. Maybe there is some sceince to this as to why compression sounds more "real" more easily?
In the city doc? I'm in the sw burbs. So I think this paper might help.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf

It goes deep on the horn stuff.

Pete
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post #651 of 815 Old 12-23-2014, 08:48 PM
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In the city doc? I'm in the sw burbs. So I think this paper might help.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Pi_Speakers_Info.pdf

It goes deep on the horn stuff.

Pete

I'm over in Naperville, I'm about 30 minutes from Harlem and 80, if that.

Reading the paper now.
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post #652 of 815 Old 12-24-2014, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
My room is 14' wide so I put them about 36" in and about 15" from the back wall for normal use. This gives a soundstage that is wide but not so deep.

So after doing some digging, i found a great thread on THS. So one night, I tried this

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...8/topics/71050

I was able to produce a profoundly deep and wide soundstage with my 212's angled at 45deg crossing in front of my face and my 2 Subs in 2.1 setup. The speakers were not placed anywhere near where they would look normal though - out in the middle of the space.

Take note that I'm a novice and have not heard a great deal of good or even great speakers. One thing I found really cool about the experience was when I tired some classical music (I think Mozart, I wasnt into classical so much at the time - I'm dabbling now as a result) and it sounded like the violinist was farther back than the physical wall boundry and the sound was locked on coming from one specific point in the space to the right. It sounded so real, I was amazed!!
My room is 14 feet wide also, but its 42 feet long. I always had better luck with sound quality getting the speakers out into the room about 4 feet or so. To close to the big TV screen, takes too much away from the soundstaging, imaging tricks and can make the Vapors sound more forward or bright. The best sound I ever had was with nothing at all on the front wall behind the speakers, except the power amps on the floor, a type of diffuser in the center and bass traps in the corners. For music only system this is the way to go. The speakers totally disappeared and all the soundstaging and imaging tricks were there.

For now, I have the 212's 52" from the front wall and 18" from the sides pointed at the center of my chair.

Thanks for posting these links I'll check them out!

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post #653 of 815 Old 12-24-2014, 04:02 AM
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I have been following this tread for quite sometime now, and also offcourse bought a pair of the 215xl (white due to wife, not sure if it helped;-))
Just to tell you little about my current speakers(beolab 5 from Bang Olufsen) considered high end i would think.
This might sound like i am kind of brainwashed or something, but i find myself listening to the berries rather than the beolab. The dryness and eagerness and effortlessness of the berries are really intriging and i am just anticipating what is going to happen next when i put on this movie or this music. I kind of find myself flabbergasted everytime i put the cd or a bluray into the player, these speakers so god damn honest. I use a receiver from Yamaha, 1020 aventage think it is called.
But i am considering to connect the berries with a music angel (tube amplifier) or go the total other way and find myself a good proffesional amp from Crown or QSC or something similar. I feel i heard this sound long time ago in a small cinema and i have tried since to create same sound at home without coming close. I tried, klipsch, maggies, jbl, svs, hørning, multicell,b&w,cerwin vega. I think now the Berries is my revelation and to almost no cost i will buy a full set so i get a full 5.1 speaker system. I am considering a passive Behringer 18 inch sub to couple with the 215xl, stince it is true they should be crossed over at 100hz or so. I use a SVS as sub right now, but maybe i cant calibrate correctly i just feel it is king kong down deep but almost no punchiness and slam like the berries deserve upwards in frequency.
just wanted to share my experienced and signed up for this forum just to let people know hat this is the real thing and atleast i encourage people too try them before judge them on specs or whatever. Sound also has to do with preference, some like the warm laidback glass of wine kind of sound(beolab is great there) but some of us like the cold hard truth that the berries deliver according to my hearing. Good luck and Merry Christmas to all!
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post #654 of 815 Old 12-24-2014, 05:01 AM
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I have been following this tread for quite sometime now, and also offcourse bought a pair of the 215xl (white due to wife, not sure if it helped;-))
Just to tell you little about my current speakers(beolab 5 from Bang Olufsen) considered high end i would think.
This might sound like i am kind of brainwashed or something, but i find myself listening to the berries rather than the beolab. The dryness and eagerness and effortlessness of the berries are really intriging and i am just anticipating what is going to happen next when i put on this movie or this music. I kind of find myself flabbergasted everytime i put the cd or a bluray into the player, these speakers so god damn honest. I use a receiver from Yamaha, 1020 aventage think it is called.
But i am considering to connect the berries with a music angel (tube amplifier) or go the total other way and find myself a good proffesional amp from Crown or QSC or something similar. I feel i heard this sound long time ago in a small cinema and i have tried since to create same sound at home without coming close. I tried, klipsch, maggies, jbl, svs, hørning, multicell,b&w,cerwin vega. I think now the Berries is my revelation and to almost no cost i will buy a full set so i get a full 5.1 speaker system. I am considering a passive Behringer 18 inch sub to couple with the 215xl, stince it is true they should be crossed over at 100hz or so. I use a SVS as sub right now, but maybe i cant calibrate correctly i just feel it is king kong down deep but almost no punchiness and slam like the berries deserve upwards in frequency.
just wanted to share my experienced and signed up for this forum just to let people know hat this is the real thing and atleast i encourage people too try them before judge them on specs or whatever. Sound also has to do with preference, some like the warm laidback glass of wine kind of sound(beolab is great there) but some of us like the cold hard truth that the berries deliver according to my hearing. Good luck and Merry Christmas to all!
Very interesting, especially since you owned all those other horn type speakers. It is surprising a budget speaker seems liked buy folks that owned much more expensive models.You said GD honest (made me laugh) because maybe they really are just honest and not sugar coating the sound trying to make the recordings sound "prettier" than they actually are.

I have 212's hooked up to 40watt SET tube mono blocks and its more than enough power. They seem tube friendly, big power would be overkill for these in a home setting, IMO. Especially when a sub amp is doing the bass duties.
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post #655 of 815 Old 12-24-2014, 05:11 AM
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I tried, klipsch, maggies, jbl, svs, hørning, multicell,b&w,cerwin vega.
Interesting as cerwin vega is also a pro-audio maker. I was thinking to take their XLS serie, well reviewed, before reading this thread, but you confirm the behringer are better and cheaper, so...
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Very interesting, especially since you owned all those other horn type speakers. It is surprising a budget speaker seems liked buy folks that owned much more expensive models.You said GD honest (made me laugh) because maybe they really are just honest and not sugar coating the sound trying to make the recordings sound "prettier" than they actually are.

I have 212's hooked up to 40watt SET tube mono blocks and its more than enough power. They seem tube friendly, big power would be overkill for these in a home setting, IMO. Especially when a sub amp is doing the bass duties.
I think you are right sir. Had Tube before with Klipsch that sounded very good, but still the articulation in voices and the spit in mouthes you hear on the berries was not there. You know when artist has dry mouth you can really hear it even though it can sound nasty but true:-)
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Interesting as cerwin vega is also a pro-audio maker. I was thinking to take their XLS serie, well reviewed, before reading this thread, but you confirm the behringer are better and cheaper, so...
Well i didnt try all Cerwin really only the AL1000 and the DC1515. Good speakers and lots of thundering bass with the right amp, but in my mind it dont beat the directness, dryness , details from possibly 100hz upwards. Maybe this is just my sick preferance but i honestly almost think i am finished searching for nirvana. This was a great buy no doubt about it, but you might like something else so there is no right or wrong so to speak.
I wish I had go with pro speakers long before would have probably saved me some cash.
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I think you are right sir. Had Tube before with Klipsch that sounded very good, but still the articulation in voices and the spit in mouthes you hear on the berries was not there. You know when artist has dry mouth you can really hear it even though it can sound nasty but true:-)
The first thing I thought when hearing the 212's was a "live" sound. And getting the sub integrated should give you the punch you are missing. Maybe run one Behringer sub and let your existing sub fill in the bottom end where the pro sub drops off? I have no experience with something like that though, just throwing out there.
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The first thing I thought when hearing the 212's was a "live" sound. And getting the sub integrated should give you the punch you are missing. Maybe run one Behringer sub and let your existing sub fill in the bottom end where the pro sub drops off? I have no experience with something like that though, just throwing out there.
Good idea, i will look into that. Thank you.
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I plan to use a cheap VP1800S for which they give 35Hz -200Hz, but no mention if it is f3 or f10 with a INUKE3000, and may be make a 20Hz TH for ultra low frequencies to put on the other Inuke's channel.

If it is not enough for 3x B215XL, I could add on in // to have a 4ohms double sub
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Behringer B215xl Passive Speaker Pair , Pioneer Elite Sc 55 Sc55 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Behringer , B 52 Lx 1515v3 1000w Dual 15 Pa Speaker , B 52 , Behringer Eurolive B212d Active 550 Watt 2 Way Pa Speaker System With 12 Inch Woofer And 1 35 Inch C
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