Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:50 AM
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I think the main reason why many people find the Behringers unrefined is because of the peaking treble response at around 12khz. If you have access to EQ, cutting this region a few DBs should do the trick. You can alternatively use the tone controls of your receiver although that would sacrifice the midrange somewhat.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:00 AM
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I think the main reason why many people find the Behringers unrefined is because of the peaking treble response at around 12khz. If you have access to EQ, cutting this region a few DBs should do the trick. You can alternatively use the tone controls of your receiver although that would sacrifice the midrange somewhat.
I didn't try cutting at 12khz, but I tried cutting lower where I thought the lower treble was harsh or unrefined and I also tried a few tilt curves, these are basically the same as treble controls that allows adjusting the transition frequency. The sound was less forward but still the basic sound signature was there. As in the type of sound that reminds me of some small live set ups I heard in bars, if that makes any sense to anyone.

It is confusing because I have no idea what the recordings are "supposed" to sound like, but the Vapors show the differences in the recordings tonal balance more and the 212's seem to make the recordings sound more similar. Is that because of the lack of resolution and refinement and the speakers impart too much of there own sound to the recording? These sort of things should be expected though when comparing speakers with huge cost differences, in my case 5k vs 300.00.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't try cutting at 12khz, but I tried cutting lower where I thought the lower treble was harsh or unrefined and I also tried a few tilt curves, these are basically the same as treble controls that allows adjusting the transition frequency. The sound was less forward but still the basic sound signature was there. As in the type of sound that reminds me of some small live set ups I heard in bars, if that makes any sense to anyone.

It is confusing because I have no idea what the recordings are "supposed" to sound like, but the Vapors show the differences in the recordings tonal balance more and the 212's seem to make the recordings sound more similar. Is that because of the lack of resolution and refinement and the speakers impart too much of there own sound to the recording? These sort of things should be expected though when comparing speakers with huge cost differences, in my case 5k vs 300.00.
I can't speak for the B212XL since it has slightly different overall specs as well as a different dispersion pattern as compared to the B215XL. I do know that with the B215s, to my ears the main deficit vs. higher-end speakers is the accuracy and precision of the imaging, not coloration. One of these days I have to set up a pair of B215XLs and B212XLs side-by-side for comparison.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:53 AM
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I can't speak for the B212XL since it has slightly different overall specs as well as a different dispersion pattern as compared to the B215XL. I do know that with the B215s, to my ears the main deficit vs. higher-end speakers is the accuracy and precision of the imaging, not coloration. One of these days I have to set up a pair of B215XLs and B212XLs side-by-side for comparison.
But maybe the higher-end speakers you had at your home are more colored than mine? Which hgh-end speakers were you used to hearing at your house? Listening at shows is not good a way to determine speakers quality, from what I understand and it makes sense to me. You need to live with a speaker system a while and get it set up to your room. Plus frequency response graphs are only a guide and not going to show the transparency of a speaker system, IMO.

Also I should add that all my posts were just my subjective opinions, plus your 215's in your room may be way ahead of what I achieved with 212's in my room.

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Old 01-02-2015, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
B215D vs B212D (active versions of the XL's).

For what its worth, just another opinion from someone who has used both professionally for 6 months.
(This isn't my video.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZvHyFFRglk
Thanks for that, when you said the 215's are way more balanced makes me think I should of tried those instead of the little guys. Though these are the powered models plus being used as designed vs. in a home setting.
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:06 AM
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Well wow, he wastes no time whatsoever with his recommendation of the 215 version over the 212!
I guess I can look into returning my little guys, I noticed the one has a crack in the top of cabinet anyway. I bought through the Amazon warehouse deal "undamaged" for a little discount. I never returned anything to Amazon so not sure how that will go.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:27 AM
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As I wrote, not my review. Just linked to it.



I once returned a projector to Amazon for uneven focus. No push back whatsoever.
Sorry for that, yes it was easy to initiate the returns. Don't think I'll try the 215's though, and may of kept the 212's if undamaged. Just wanted to try high efficiency compression horn speakers that were affordable. Didn't know it may be a substantial difference between the two models or would of got the 215 to try.
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:08 PM
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One of these days I have to set up a pair of B215XLs and B212XLs side-by-side for comparison.
Please please please do this.
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:26 AM
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Hi, yes the dynamics are what I like most about them, so they aint the last thing in fancy audiophile attributes but I may not care in the end.
After listening to Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2's, exactly what I think.

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Old 01-03-2015, 10:45 AM
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Here are some graphs; as you can see the full range graph, they can be loaded in a corner for much better lower end; again though, my room is really(!) sensitive to main placement in the 80-300hz range. Anyways, finally dialing in my sub distance (Audy sets at 15.9'-actual about 13.5-with BFD(?)-now at 20.5' and it's great now but am ringing on waterfall at 80-90hz-who knows-spl is pretty seamless) and music sounds kick ass, especially anything with dynamics; these things are so much fun to crank Sub integration has never been better with the DTS-10. Was again a little worried aon top end roll off but hell it sounds amazing.

The thing that surprised(s) me the most and perhaps most importantly is how fing great these sound with surround mix (like seriously(!) Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon 5.1 SACD!!!! Unbelievable cranked with seamless integration with the 12's as surrounds. really loving the 12's as surrounds as I was a bit apprehensive coming from the Ascend's and discussion of difficult integration. Seriously though, surround sound never sounded better in this room. Thanks again Mark!

Here are some specs on my room setup: 10'-MLP; Perfect spacing for surrounds at 6.9' at roughly 6' high.
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:03 AM
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@JW6

If you pull your gear out again could you close mic the horn? At the face, or within a foot. Just curious what the CD/horn response looks like without so much room effect.

Thanks
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:11 AM
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@JW6

If you pull your gear out again could you close mic the horn? At the face, or within a foot. Just curious what the CD/horn response looks like without so much room effect.

Thanks
Will do. I have to listen to these some more first! Thanks. Same make orientation (i.e., vertical or "90 degree")? I've seen some close mic and have the mic somewhat oriented towards speaker more like a 45.

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Old 01-03-2015, 11:27 AM
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Will do. I have to listen to these some more first! Thanks. Same make orientation (i.e., vertical or "90 degree")? I've seen some close mic and have the mic somewhat oriented towards speaker more like a 45.
it can depend on the mic, but in most instances you want to point the mic directly at the driver, like you're going to shoot it.
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Old 01-03-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
B215D vs B212D (active versions of the XL's).

For what its worth, just another opinion from someone who has used both professionally for 6 months.
(This isn't my video.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZvHyFFRglk
Not to harp on this as I feel I am always saying this whenever it gets brought up that the B215XL and B215D are different speakers, they do not share the same compression driver. The same is true for the B212XL and B215D. I can frankly tell you from listening that the active models are not an option from what I've heard.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:08 PM
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Not to harp on this as I feel I am always saying this whenever it gets brought up that the B215XL and B215D are different speakers, they do not share the same compression driver. The same is true for the B212XL and B215D. I can frankly tell you from listening that the active models are not an option from what I've heard.
Plus the reviewer is using them in a completely different application. So basically this isn't really helpful. What would be helpful is hearing from people who spent time with both 212XL and 215XL as mains. If the 215XL is way ahead or way more balanced compared to the 212XL it would be a no brainer to pick the big guys since the cost difference is so small. But the size difference is why some would prefer to go with the 212XL, at least thats why I picked those. Also because I was thinking the performance would be very similar.
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:16 PM
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I did listen to each as mains briefly before setting up and it wasn't certainly night and day to my ears. Again though, this was very brief and under less than ideal placement, etc. If these were going in my living room based on my limited time, I would go with 12's. With their size, they're actually perhaps more impressive. Pretty damn mighty for their size

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Old 01-03-2015, 04:10 PM
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I did listen to each as mains briefly before setting up and it wasn't certainly night and day to my ears. Again though, this was very brief and under less than ideal placement, etc. If these were going in my living room based on my limited time, I would go with 12's. With their size, they're actually perhaps more impressive. Pretty damn mighty for their size
I know they can play lots louder than anyone would need, or should need.

I was most impressed with the soundstaging abilities after I get the toe-in and set up right. With some recordings I tried, the 212's gave an illusion of the music being beyond the walls, and seemed to wrap around me, hearing stuff behind my head. Then some recordings the soundstage was flat compared to my high-end speakers. I guess its the nature of the different type tweeters and dispersion.

I think a really good (I doubt anything cheap) set of horn speakers could cause me to retire my ribbon tweeter speakers. Since this is subjective, I can see why there are fans of the different types of speakers. In other words, I think I will be trying some more high efficiency horns in the future.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:43 PM
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Not to harp on this as I feel I am always saying this whenever it gets brought up that the B215XL and B215D are different speakers, they do not share the same compression driver. The same is true for the B212XL and B215D. I can frankly tell you from listening that the active models are not an option from what I've heard.
Hmmm. Just double checked the Behringer website and you are correct. The compression driver is smaller for the B215D than the XL. Youtube link deleted.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:51 PM
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Yeah, the ribbon tweeter on the Sierra 2's were revelatory. I was blown away after having the 1's with regular dome's (as I seriously questioned my wisdom for upgrading). That energy though just simply isn't there with dynamics and playing any kind of trance, dance, metal (Metallica-Fade to Black anybody-, just is superb with these with a properly integrated sub. As I mentioned earlier, I would love to here a hifi setup with a really nicely integrated sealed servo sub as with these (with my setup at least), I need the XT32 which IMHO sounds inferior to without as with the Sierra's any ways....god the Cardinals were abysmal lol.

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Old 01-04-2015, 10:40 AM
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I know they can play lots louder than anyone would need, or should need.

I was most impressed with the soundstaging abilities after I get the toe-in and set up right. With some recordings I tried, the 212's gave an illusion of the music being beyond the walls, and seemed to wrap around me, hearing stuff behind my head. Then some recordings the soundstage was flat compared to my high-end speakers. I guess its the nature of the different type tweeters and dispersion.

I think a really good (I doubt anything cheap) set of horn speakers could cause me to retire my ribbon tweeter speakers. Since this is subjective, I can see why there are fans of the different types of speakers. In other words, I think I will be trying some more high efficiency horns in the future.
I just thought I'd add that if anyone tries to get the most out of these for 2 channel stereo, you need to experiment with the toe-in and placement just like any other speakers, at least the ones I owned were this way. I reinstalled the 212's today for another listen and it took a while to get the soundstaging, imaging and treble response to "lock in" I think I got it really close but still might try very small adjustments.

So to hear the soundstaging "magic" just plopping them down and aiming them is not enough at least in my case, unless I am nuts which is quite possible.

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Old 01-04-2015, 12:57 PM
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Here's a trick I discovered with my OPPO 105. If I set the down mix mode to LT RT instead of stereo I get a surround sound affect, I'll call it "poor mans surround sound" or "phantom surround" It can fool you into thinking there are speakers behind you. The 212's pull this trick off with ease and much better than my other speakers could. Some regular stereo recordings played through my other CD player and turntable must have a lot of soundstaging phasing (or something) as I get some affects from behind and across the side walls also.

Getting the speakers set up good makes these affects obvious and impressive to me. Though sometimes with the OPPO set a LT and RT the sound can be a little diffuse, though it's still good enough for me. I will try some surround sound music recordings next.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:35 PM
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...I reinstalled the 212's today for another listen and it took a while to get the soundstaging, imaging and treble response to "lock in" I think I got it really close but still might try very small adjustments...
Did you end up decided to keep the 12's? I would love for you to pick up some 15's to do a direct comparison. You could return one or both sets afterwards, but seems like you would be the best person to do the compare at the moment.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:09 PM
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Did you end up decided to keep the 12's? I would love for you to pick up some 15's to do a direct comparison. You could return one or both sets afterwards, but seems like you would be the best person to do the compare at the moment.
Well I initiated the return of the 212's then I started missing them again. So hooked em back up and liked even more this time, so cancelled the return. Though I guess Amazon didnt notify the UPS guy because he showed up this morning looking for boxes. I dont believe he was disappointed when I notified him of return cancellation.

I played Saving Private Ryan movie today and was amazed, even just two channels playing and the sound affects and quality impressed. I am not sure yet if I want to try the 215's thinking there wouldn't be much difference. I think if I decided on a real surround system I would pick up the 215's for the front. Probably just use two and skip the center channel though.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:43 PM
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Well I initiated the return of the 212's then I started missing them again. So hooked em back up and liked even more this time, so cancelled the return. Though I guess Amazon didnt notify the UPS guy because he showed up this morning looking for boxes. I dont believe he was disappointed when I notified him of return cancellation.

I played Saving Private Ryan movie today and was amazed, even just two channels playing and the sound affects and quality impressed. I am not sure yet if I want to try the 215's thinking there wouldn't be much difference. I think if I decided on a real surround system I would pick up the 215's for the front. Probably just use two and skip the center channel though.
Nice. I'm glad you're keeping them I just moved into my new place last week, ordered my Denon x4000 today, and will hopefully be getting some 15's in a few weeks. I can't wait.
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:22 PM
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As I used the 15's without a center for a while (and consistent with other opinions), I can say that it does take some adjustment to go back to the center as the imaging is so nice w/o when you're in the sweet spot. You throw that center in there (w/o ideal placement) under the screen and everything is so anchored to the floor it is somewhat alarming. I did notice though tremendous integration improvement with LCR placement changes (more or less pinpoint distance setting to the inch along with toe in). I swear I noticed changes when Audy measured even 2 inches difference with LR and C. Didn't appear to notice this much sensitivity with regard placement with Sierra's. Guess its the compression drivers(?)

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Old 01-06-2015, 10:01 AM
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As I used the 15's without a center for a while (and consistent with other opinions), I can say that it does take some adjustment to go back to the center as the imaging is so nice w/o when you're in the sweet spot. You throw that center in there (w/o ideal placement) under the screen and everything is so anchored to the floor it is somewhat alarming. I did notice though tremendous integration improvement with LCR placement changes (more or less pinpoint distance setting to the inch along with toe in). I swear I noticed changes when Audy measured even 2 inches difference with LR and C. Didn't appear to notice this much sensitivity with regard placement with Sierra's. Guess its the compression drivers(?)
So you think that getting a third for a center is worth it? I was planning on only having two to save some cash and a lot of space. I'm planning on doing a projector eventually, but with just a tv right now, fitting a center might be tricky.
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Old 01-06-2015, 10:37 AM
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So you think that getting a third for a center is worth it? I was planning on only having two to save some cash and a lot of space. I'm planning on doing a projector eventually, but with just a tv right now, fitting a center might be tricky.
I got used to not having the center very quickly when i had my 212's (sold due to WAF in our media room). At first I sat there waiting for the voices to go quiet on me and instead the speakers just seemingly disappeared while watching a movie. So I think once you get over the anxiety (speaking of my own experience of course) of the center not actually being there and just enjoy the show you will not miss it. The sweetspot is so large that you could sit in any of the seats of the sectional i have and it still sounded fantastic.

I recently learned this lesson again because i sold my subs and all i had left were my in-walls for mains and center they are 8" 3-ways. So i set the receiver to "no sub" which automatically set the in-wall mains to "full range" and I was astonished at how low they actually extend (to my ear anyway, I need to measure them).

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Old 01-06-2015, 10:45 AM
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I got used to not having the center very quickly when i had my 212's (sold due to WAF in our media room). At first I sat there waiting for the voices to go quiet on me and instead the speakers just seemingly disappeared while watching a movie. So I think once you get over the anxiety (speaking of my own experience of course) of the center not actually being there and just enjoy the show you will not miss it. The sweetspot is so large that you could sit in any of the seats of the sectional i have and it still sounded fantastic.

I recently learned this lesson again because i sold my subs and all i had left were my in-walls for mains and center they are 8" 3-ways. So i set the receiver to "no sub" which automatically set the in-wall mains to "full range" and I was astonished at how low they actually extend (to my ear anyway, I need to measure them).

Pete
That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. So I'll probably just go with two and then when I get the projector maybe I'll buy a third.
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Old 01-07-2015, 10:23 AM
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Well I just saw a B215XL pop up on Amazon's Warehouse Deals in "acceptable" condition for $138, so I grabbed it along with another used one. I don't really care what the housing looks like as long as the drivers are in good shape, so I'll do some thorough tests on them. But I couldn't pass up that deal. They're supposed to be delivered Monday. I can't wait!
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiantPeach View Post
Well I just saw a B215XL pop up on Amazon's Warehouse Deals in "acceptable" condition for $138, so I grabbed it along with another used one. I don't really care what the housing looks like as long as the drivers are in good shape, so I'll do some thorough tests on them. But I couldn't pass up that deal. They're supposed to be delivered Monday. I can't wait!
Hope you like them, just have some patience and give your best effort setting them up. I guess if they weren't so "ugly" they would get more attention from budget minded folks. I don't seem to see folks recommend these over the "toy like" in comparison popular main stream offerings in same and even a bit higher price range.
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Behringer B215xl Passive Speaker Pair , Pioneer Elite Sc 55 Sc55 9 1 Channel 3d Ready A V Receiver , Pioneer Andrew Jones Sp Fs52 Flr Stand Loudspeaker , Behringer , B 52 Lx 1515v3 1000w Dual 15 Pa Speaker , B 52 , Behringer Eurolive B212d Active 550 Watt 2 Way Pa Speaker System With 12 Inch Woofer And 1 35 Inch C
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