Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

That plot certainly doesn't look like anything I would call a frequency response flat enough to be called high fidelity.

 

It's an in-room measurement with no EQ, the same thing would happen to any speaker. Even so, it stays within +/- 2.5 dB through its usable range. It is high fidelity, as numerous AVS members who took a shot at it have already attested.\

 

Here's a FR graph of two different pairs of ridiculously high-end speakers, measured in John Atkinson's listening room — he's the editor at Stereophile...

Fig.6 Vivid Giya G3, spatially averaged, 1/6-octave response in JA's listening room (red); and of Wilson Alexia (blue). - stereophile.com

 

If I run my subs, I can beat that FR graph with the B215XLs, based on in-room, averaged reading... just like John Atkinson's. Yes, I run my subs a bit hot, making it flat is just a matter of trimming the subs.


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post #242 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 11:14 AM
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Thanks for the graph. Any chance you have one where eq is applied? I would love to know if I could even stretch things to 50hz as that would be the bottom end of midbass.
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post #243 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the graph. Any chance you have one where eq is applied? I would love to know if I could even stretch things to 50hz as that would be the bottom end of midbass.

 

When I get a minute, I'll hook up my nanoAVR and create a full-range compensation curve to see what I can get out of them. It might be a day or two before I have that; I'm also curious how far they can stretch.


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post #244 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 12:20 PM
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When I get a minute, I'll hook up my nanoAVR and create a full-range compensation curve to see what I can get out of them. It might be a day or two before I have that; I'm also curious how far they can stretch.

Thanks, I would really appreciate that. The price is really good in comparision to other options available here in Canada.
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post #245 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

That plot certainly doesn't look like anything I would call a frequency response flat enough to be called high fidelity.

 

Now i`m sitting in my home theater with my new 215er center and check the potential with a view bluray`s. Man, the speaker is really big (almost too big for my movies) but he sounds extremely good compared to my thx 2 speakers. Votes have a live dramatic timbre and volume - no matter what comes - is also not an issue. From my point of view, nothing is comparabel to hear in their own space. And by the way: cinema (home-cinema)  is pa and not hifi ;).

 

So Long (now I take cover :eek:)

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post #246 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 03:09 PM
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How can I safely room the grill from the woofer? Is there any special trick to it?
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post #247 of 364 Old 06-03-2014, 03:11 PM
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How can I safely room the grill from the woofer? Is there any special trick to it?


Copied from post #116:

 

Not really that hard, they just pull straight out. I used pliers to hold on to a small allen key that got under the grill and was able to work them out with ease.

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post #248 of 364 Old 06-04-2014, 01:08 PM
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Thanks!

So with the one...B212XL(I'll have the other tonight) the speaker easily puts out 3 times the volume of the Bose it replaces. It's also super clear easy to hear. I am much happier going with the 212 over the 215. I'll likely stick these on my wall.

I have a Pioneer SC-37 so once I get the other 212XL tonight I'll calibrate everything and watch some clips. VR12 still seems to be more pleasant to listen to for voices.
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post #249 of 364 Old 06-08-2014, 08:59 AM
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Well, I have replaced my Axiom M60 towers and Axiom VP160 centre with three B212XL's. Going from 87db speakers to 95db has been astonishing. I'm not quite sure what I was expecting with the "upgrade" to the Behringers, but I have been very happy with the result so far. I have my Axioms stashed away for a future sale, but that sale is looking more likely every day.




We watched Red Dawn tonight, and I would have to say that its the first time I have been impressed with the sound of the larger caliber gun sounds, It was awesome! The ability to have my amp give my speakers what they need has finally been realised. Not by upgrading my amps, though.....

I upgraded my centre18 months ago from the smaller VP100 - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp100-center-channel-speaker to the much larger VP160 - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp160-center-channel-speaker. I had been hoping that the larger speaker volume would be better able to supply the gutsy mid-bass sounds to accompany my three subwoofers. It did improve, but something was still clearly lacking.

It now appears that what I have been missing is some decent punch from my front speakers. But what has REALLY been missing seems to have been the ability to get the required POWER to my front three. I cross over at 100hz, and with the new speakers I have adjusted my subwoofer distance using REW, as follows:



As you can see, there is the usual huge impact from tweaking the sub distance at the crossover.

Anyway, I had been hoping to buy the 215's, but I realised that they would not quite fit on top of my SVS PB1000's, and the slight difference in bass capabilities was irrelevant, given my 100hz crossover. The 212's turned out to be perfect.

My speaker settings have changed from:
L +2.0 to -4.5
C +0.5 to -6.0
R +2.5 to -4.0

This obviously reflects the greater sens sensitivity of the Behringers. The other speakers settings are unchanged,

I have noticed the increased sweet spot for stereo listening - but I have toed in the speakers way beyond the outside listener ( but within the L & R space). I am loving the smooth highs, the sound is perfect from low levels to higher than I would normally listen to.

Listening to 2 channel music, I prefer listening to L and R with Sub, using the Stereo setting on my Onkyo 818. I LOVE this on the new speakers. Listening to the latest Sarah McLaughlin CD, no matter how low or high I listen, the sound is sublime.

I rarely post, but am a big user of this forum. I am obviously a big fan of these speakers. I am in Australla, and they cost me $235 each. BARGAIN!!! NOTHING is this cheap NOTHING sounds this good.

Thanks Mark. Great work.
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post #250 of 364 Old 06-08-2014, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runcliffyrun View Post

Well, I have replaced my Axiom M60 towers and Axiom VP160 centre with three B212XL's. Going from 87db speakers to 95db has been astonishing. I'm not quite sure what I was expecting with the "upgrade" to the Behringers, but I have been very happy with the result so far. I have my Axioms stashed away for a future sale, but that sale is looking more likely every day.




We watched Red Dawn tonight, and I would have to say that its the first time I have been impressed with the sound of the larger caliber gun sounds, It was awesome! The ability to have my amp give my speakers what they need has finally been realised. Not by upgrading my amps, though.....

I upgraded my centre18 months ago from the smaller VP100 - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp100-center-channel-speaker to the much larger VP160 - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp160-center-channel-speaker. I had been hoping that the larger speaker volume would be better able to supply the gutsy mid-bass sounds to accompany my three subwoofers. It did improve, but something was still clearly lacking.

It now appears that what I have been missing is some decent punch from my front speakers. But what has REALLY been missing seems to have been the ability to get the required POWER to my front three. I cross over at 100hz, and with the new speakers I have adjusted my subwoofer distance using REW, as follows:



As you can see, there is the usual huge impact from tweaking the sub distance at the crossover.

Anyway, I had been hoping to buy the 215's, but I realised that they would not quite fit on top of my SVS PB1000's, and the slight difference in bass capabilities was irrelevant, given my 100hz crossover. The 212's turned out to be perfect.

My speaker settings have changed from:
L +2.0 to -4.5
C +0.5 to -6.0
R +2.5 to -4.0

This obviously reflects the greater sens sensitivity of the Behringers. The other speakers settings are unchanged,

I have noticed the increased sweet spot for stereo listening - but I have toed in the speakers way beyond the outside listener ( but within the L & R space). I am loving the smooth highs, the sound is prefect from low levels to higher than I would normally listen to.

Listening to 2 channel music, I prefer listening to L and R with Sub, using the Stereo setting on my Onkyo 818. I LOVE this on the new speakers. Listening to the latest Sarah McLaughlin CD, no matter how low or high I listen, the sound is sublime.

I rarely post, but am a big user of this forum. I am obviously a big fan of these speakers. I am in Australla, and they cost me $235 each. BARGAIN!!! NOTHING is this cheap NOTHING sounds this good.

Thanks Mark. Great work.

 

Wow that is great to hear, I am glad the 212s are working out for you! The tweeters really are the stars of the show, and overall I agree that 2-channel listening is very rewarding with these Behringers. Now I'm strongly tempted to get 212s for my rears, where the 215s would not fit.

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post #251 of 364 Old 06-09-2014, 10:54 PM
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I can also agree. I am currently now running the 212XL as my main L/R with a Boston VR12. While the Boston does a decent job keeping up I'm going to have to tweak the EQ. The 212XL's are plenty.

Keep in mind I have JBL 8330A's for my surrounds and honestly it goes extremely well with them. I don't think the 215XL dispersion for the tweeter would be ideal for most rooms the 212XL has a wider spread due to the horn.

For the first time my home theater....sounds like a theater...oh and this is in my apartment...I'm looking for a house smile.gif So I have my subs staying light on their feet smile.gif and my SC-37 has turned down the volume across the board on average of 6db lol!




I can't tell you how many times I measured before buying that screen smile.gif 125" Like a glove wink.gif
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post #252 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I really makes me happy to see so many people enjoying their Behringers! I've had mine for a little while now and the amazing thing is I don't think about my speakers anymore, because I really don't need a speaker to do anything more. I'm free to obsess over other things instead.


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post #253 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 07:34 AM
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Mark thank you! I agree this is majorly changed things. I'm very happy that you make this post and got this going. I'd been drooling over JBL 3677 and no longer have to think about what next either. Hoping I can EQ my VR12 this evening and then I'll be done messing for a while. Amazing how good this stuff sounds!
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post #254 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post

Mark thank you! I agree this is majorly changed things. I'm very happy that you make this post and got this going. I'd been drooling over JBL 3677 and no longer have to think about what next either. Hoping I can EQ my VR12 this evening and then I'll be done messing for a while. Amazing how good this stuff sounds!

Yes I've been drooling over JBL's as well. I can't wait until Mark gets some time so he can see what an EQ can get out of these speakers.
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post #255 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocOrange88 View Post

Mark thank you! I agree this is majorly changed things. I'm very happy that you make this post and got this going. I'd been drooling over JBL 3677 and no longer have to think about what next either. Hoping I can EQ my VR12 this evening and then I'll be done messing for a while. Amazing how good this stuff sounds!

Yes I've been drooling over JBL's as well. I can't wait until Mark gets some time so he can see what an EQ can get out of these speakers.

It won't be possible for at least a couple more days, but the reminder is helpful!
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post #256 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 10:54 AM
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I would love a direct comparison of the B215xl, 3677, and the SEOS sentinel which to me seems like the top runners for HT speakers right now unless you go bigger. I liked my SEOS fusion 10 better than my 888LP's. Nothing has dethroned my DR stacks yet, not even the unity U215's.
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I would love a direct comparison of the B215xl, 3677, and the SEOS sentinel which to me seems like the top runners for HT speakers right now unless you go bigger. I liked my SEOS fusion 10 better than my 888LP's. Nothing has dethroned my DR stacks yet, not even the unity U215's.

The tempest will be better in bass, so I'm sure the sentinal will best the 215 by an even larger margin.
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post #258 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 11:58 AM
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I would cross at 80hz so low extension is not needed or a concern for me.
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post #259 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 12:13 PM
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If you are crossing over at 80hz, I think the 212XL would best the 215XL due to the dispersion of the horn being better.
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post #260 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 01:27 PM
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Oh, I am not changing, just curious which 2 way CD/horn/15 setup works best. My guess would be the Sentinel or JBL. If the $200 Berry keeps up it can open up lots of options for people seeking high performance theater that normally could not afford to. I run a full 7.1 DIY system and probably won't change until I hear some Danley SH-50's!
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post #261 of 364 Old 06-10-2014, 02:40 PM
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biggrin.gif Or you could just get crazy and put a sub with each 212 or 215? smile.gif
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I just cross all speakers into my IB.
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post #263 of 364 Old 06-11-2014, 12:01 AM
 
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biggrin.gif Or you could just get crazy and put a sub with each 212 or 215? smile.gif

That's kind of what I do. Left and right main set to full with a sub under them set to a 50hz cross over running of the line level input. It sounds amazing for two channel music and movies. As an added bonus it's the stand as well.
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post #264 of 364 Old 06-15-2014, 08:37 PM
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I ordered another B212XL to replace my center. I don't think it keeps up enough.

I had a secondary thought, to upgrade everything. Rather than replace the driver in the B212XL perhaps adding a Jbl 2035HPL with custom enclosure might be the perfect compliment. That would solve the low end output and give you a extremely good sounding full range speaker. Is there some kind of cross over that could be used between them? I would not do this anytime soon but seems like a good plan.
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post #265 of 364 Old 06-16-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:Originally Posted by FMW

That plot certainly doesn't look like anything I would call a frequency response flat enough to be called high fidelity.


It's an in-room measurement with no EQ, the same thing would happen to any speaker. Even so, it stays within +/- 2.5 dB through its usable range. It is high fidelity, as numerous AVS members who took a shot at it have already attested.\
I'm not doubting these speakers sound fine. But your measurement was at 1m and used 1/3oct smoothing. We should expect a fairly flat response from 500hz and up. Despite this we see a peculiar dip at 3khz, a diffraction peak at 900hz, and a raised response at 10khz. All signs of a budget minded XO that doesn't address diffraction, woofer breakup, and CD mass losses. It would be interesting to see what can be done with some bitumen on the cab walls, $50 worth of capacitors and inductors, and some XO redesign. I bet this thing could go from being a muscle car to nutted out ferrari.
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post #266 of 364 Old 06-16-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by FMW

That plot certainly doesn't look like anything I would call a frequency response flat enough to be called high fidelity.


It's an in-room measurement with no EQ, the same thing would happen to any speaker. Even so, it stays within +/- 2.5 dB through its usable range. It is high fidelity, as numerous AVS members who took a shot at it have already attested.\
I'm not doubting these speakers sound fine. But your measurement was at 1m and used 1/3oct smoothing. We should expect a fairly flat response from 500hz and up. Despite this we see a peculiar dip at 3khz, a diffraction peak at 900hz, and a raised response at 10khz. All signs of a budget minded XO that doesn't address diffraction, woofer breakup, and CD mass losses. It would be interesting to see what can be done with some bitumen on the cab walls, $50 worth of capacitors and inductors, and some XO redesign. I bet this thing could go from being a muscle car to nutted out ferrari.
I can only imagine how cheap and crappy the crossovers in the Behringers are. I certainly don't mind opening them up at some point in the near future, nothing to lose. I am certain there are cost-effective ways to improve them.

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post #267 of 364 Old 06-16-2014, 02:31 PM
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I doubt they're crappy XO'ers. PA speakers demand high quality components actually. Just optomized for minimal parts necessary and maximum tweeter protection. This often means running the woofer higher than normally desired in a home setting.

If you do open them up, I'd be very interested. I don't come around this forum often as I'm a DIY junkie, but I'll keep my eye open. It would be fun to really analyze this speaker with pseudo-anechoic measurements and a XO with hifi priorities. Wanna mail one to Canada
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post #268 of 364 Old 06-17-2014, 11:12 AM
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Hey Ryan, $258 at L&M here in Victoria! I've been tempted to bring them to Joe's GTG!
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post #269 of 364 Old 06-17-2014, 12:50 PM
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Guitar center has the B212XL (Blemished but whatever mine where like new) for ~140 a speaker shipped to me. I got mine even cheaper by going to the store, I think I paid $122 shipped to me for each B212XL. They had over 50 in stock this way. There is I'd say a 50/50 chance they ship it poorly, I had to swap out one because they did this but at $122 its worth dealing with the slight chance of a hassle, they where good about the swap out.
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post #270 of 364 Old 06-17-2014, 01:44 PM
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Hey Ryan, $258 at L&M here in Victoria! I've been tempted to bring them to Joe's GTG!

DO IT!!!! .....lol

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