Building new house, limited by WAF, what to get? Help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

My wife and I are building a house and I am trying to plan the sound system for the living room. It needs to be minimal in nature for purposes of decorating, so I am keeping it to a stereo setup. I wanted to just go with in-wall Polk 265-LS's (I have Onix Reference 1's and I like the Vifa ring radiator tweeters), but my wife hates that idea because it could get in the way of artwork. The builder runs a tube behind the fireplace from the TV so that I can hook up my electronics on the side of the room, but my wife wants them to hide in a small side table so I think I have settled on a small Class D Bluetooth Amp, specifically this one:

Grace Digital GDI-BTAR502 Bluetooth Amplifier HD

I am trying to figure out what to pair it with. Apparently I can either get bookshelves or floorstanders, but my wife really doesn't want there to be a subwoofer as they are eyesores. So that makes me lean towards floorstanders. Then, though, when I look at what is available for bookshelves in the price range I am looking at (will go over $1000 but want to remain as close as possible to it), I get upset haha.

Any speaker I pick has to have high attractiveness. That means no black ash, just wood veneers or at least a good knockoff of a wood veneer. I specifically like speakers where I can leave the grilles off and there is wood on the front as well, rather than a black baffle.

As such, I have been looking at the Polk RTI A7's.
I was looking at the Wharfedale Diamond 9.6's as well but they seem to be discontinued and replaced with speakers with black baffles. ARGH!

Then I started looking... - oh, I could get Paradigm Studio 20's for $1600... Of course with no Sub they would be lacking, but they would certainly be more refined than the Polks. And, as a plus, they are absolutely beautiful.

One of my concerns is with a 40w at 8ohms Class D amp, am I going to run into issues with any of these speakers? It is going to be a very large open room, I don't need insane volumes but would like to get it decently loud. I suppose high sensitivity would be a plus.

The living room also has 18 foot ceilings so that is an acoustics factor. Here is the floorplan showing the 18 foot ceilings in the living room: http://www.coventry-homes.com/floorplan/the-omega/

Who can tell me what I should do?! Any suggestions for other speakers I should be looking at? Please help!
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post #2 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 08:46 AM
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So what is the overall cubic footage of your room?

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post #3 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Good question. It is an open living room to the Kitchen and Dining Room, but those aren't open to above.

Living Room: 4368 (18 foot ceilings)

Kitchen: 2352 (9 foot)
Dining Room: 1008 (9 foot)

Total: 7728

Don't think the dining room really matters though as it is kind of around the corner. So maybe subtract a thousand.
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post #4 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 09:10 AM
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You may run into some problems with that Amp

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post #5 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 09:48 AM
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You seem to be in Edmonton? Makes a big difference in terms of what's available in US or Canada.
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post #6 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I am in Canada.

I might have the opportunity to buy my brother's Monitor Audio RS6's in Walnut off him at a solid price. What do you think about those?
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post #7 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

You may run into some problems with that Amp

+1

And you would have to have a very powerful subwoofer to support low bass frequencies. Even with a better amp, speakers are not going to do well for low bass in that space. Really need to fight the wife on that, assuming you can afford a powerful subwoofer.

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post #8 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 10:24 AM
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I'm curious.. Your building a new house and not accounting for Home Theater? I'm at a complete loss. Then your wife is dictating what you can and can not do. This is exactly what keeps me single. Also,it doesn't matter what speakers you get,you are going to miss out on the lower frequencies without a sub. I'm fortunate enough to have a GF that loves my stuff. In fact,she would probably design the house around it. I'd never date,let alone marry a woman that didn't appreciate Home Theater. I can understand if your going to screw the room up,but don't you have a basement you can use or another room,I mean is this woman dictating the whole house? I need a drink just thinking about it.
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post #9 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I'm curious.. Your building a new house and not accounting for Home Theater?

Close off that gallery on your 2nd floor plan and turn it into a small home theater. smile.gif
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Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I need a drink just thinking about it.

ROFL

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post #10 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Lol,

Great and funny responses. My wife and I agree, it's not truly a battle. I really dislike black speakers as well, for example. The main system is already going upstairs in that gallery. We talked about closing it off but we are going to leave it open, ten years from now we will finish the basement to have a legitimate theatre room. I've attached a photo of my main setup, it has a sub.

This setup is for music and TV while making dinner, sitting in the living room or entertaining. Hence the 2 channels rather than more.


Anyone know of any really stylish subwoofers, or of any good ways to hide them?

I am leaning towards getting my brother's Monitor Audio RS6's in Walnut, but he also has a Rotel Amp, RA-1062. 60 WPC. It would be a lot harder to hide and doesn't have the bluetooth features, what do you guys think?

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post #11 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 12:26 PM
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I'd get the RS6's,they are very nice speakers and would look good in that room. You could also find a sub your wife would ok.. Women are under the impression that they are all ugly giant boxes which is absolutely untrue. You just need to show her stuff that looks nice.
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post #12 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlubbs View Post

Anyone know of any really stylish subwoofers, or of any good ways to hide them?

It really depends on your budget. Funk Audio is known on the AVS subwoofer forum for awesome sounding subwoofers in a variety of finishes. I'm sure you could get them to leave it unfinished if you wanted to have a cabinet maker finish it differently.

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post #13 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 12:50 PM
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I'd get the RS6's,they are very nice speakers and would look good in that room.

+1

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post #14 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 01:06 PM
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If you got a pair of these,I can pretty much guarantee you she won't have a problem. This is what I have and anyone that has seen or heard them just drops their jaw. Get a little gloss black sub and you should be fine..
http://www.martinlogan.com/electromotion/em-esl.php
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post #15 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 03:14 PM
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How about Ascend's Sierra 1 or 2? They have a variety of finishes to choose from and a straight Sierra 1 is under $1000.
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post #16 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlubbs View Post

I am leaning towards getting my brother's Monitor Audio RS6's in Walnut, but he also has a Rotel Amp, RA-1062. 60 WPC. It would be a lot harder to hide and doesn't have the bluetooth features, what do you guys think?

RS6s are two generations ago now - the improved RX6 was clearance at $1100 a pair or so to make way for the new Silver Series line. So you should get a good discount on them. Canuck Audio Mart

Take the money you save and get a NAD D3020


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post #17 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 03:25 PM
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The RS6 will match the floor nicely..
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post #18 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I was looking online and I found the SB-1000 from SVS in the Piano White gloss, as well as a used Walnut Monitor Audio 12 incher. I am going to try to convince her to let me get a sub for the RS6's. Maybe if she wants symmetry I will get two...

By the way I won't let my brother charge me more than $600 for the speakers wink.gif.

Why pay four times as much for the NAD amp with less power, again? I am having trouble figuring that one out. Wifi I guess, but see I am going to hook a Smart TV that can stream music up to the line in on the Grace Digital. As far as I know they make pretty decent products.
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post #19 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlubbs View Post

Anyone know of any really stylish subwoofers, or of any good ways to hide them?


Bill Fitzmaurice's Table Tuba plans hide very well. Since I don't think a big square box integrates well in a living room, this is probably the direction I'm going in the house I'm planning.
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post #20 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 07:21 PM
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It's not that complicated - get any sub or two that you want and simply cover it up with a tapestry/wall hanging/rug.
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post #21 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
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Ok I was looking online and I found the SB-1000 from SVS in the Piano White gloss, as well as a used Walnut Monitor Audio 12 incher. I am going to try to convince her to let me get a sub for the RS6's. Maybe if she wants symmetry I will get two...

You will need quite a few of those SB-1000s for bass in that size room. That's a small, compact 12" sub. In fact, you would need a larger ported sub in a 12" at minimum to get any kind of bass.

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post #22 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 10:16 PM - Thread Starter
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You will need quite a few of those SB-1000s for bass in that size room. That's a small, compact 12" sub. In fact, you would need a larger ported sub in a 12" at minimum to get any kind of bass.

Are you sure about that? I mean, A lot of the cubic feet are above where anyone will be listening from. Also, this is a 90% music / 10% TV type of thing and I care way more about musicality (not a basshead) than about low end rumble. The furthest wall from the subs in the listening space is 27 feet.

Does that change anything in your opinion?
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post #23 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 10:19 PM
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Volume size of the room is a factor, and having adjacent open areas does have an impact. Note where Audioholics recommended the larger compact sealed SVS SB12-NSD for rooms from 1500 to 3000 cubic feet, although it apparently did OK (not great) in their tests in a room ~ 4000 cubic feet. The SB-1000 is a smaller sub with even less output.

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post #24 of 32 Old 02-26-2014, 10:21 PM
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Oh, and I own an SB-1000, so I have first hand experience with what it can do smile.gif

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post #25 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 12:58 AM
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There is a difference between bass for music and pressurization for HT, the Audioholics review was more inclined towards HT. The SB-1000 should be fine for his purposes (which is mostly music) if he wants to keep the size down. My little 6.5" provides good output for music, my only issue with it is it doesn't reach as low as I would like it to. The SVS would fix that no problem, but for me the size was also important and I knew the trade off when I got the x200, I don't regret the decision though I do wish I had 2 to even the bass out throughout the room.
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post #26 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlubbs View Post

Why pay four times as much for the NAD amp with less power, again? I am having trouble figuring that one out. Wifi I guess, but see I am going to hook a Smart TV that can stream music up to the line in on the Grace Digital. As far as I know they make pretty decent products.
You implied Bluetooth and WAF were very important or even critical. It's an amazing amp. Specs are notoriously misleading, with many manufacturers. And NAD amps are built with real 'nads.

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post #27 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 05:49 AM
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There is a difference between bass for music and pressurization for HT, the Audioholics review was more inclined towards HT. The SB-1000 should be fine for his purposes (which is mostly music) if he wants to keep the size down. My little 6.5" provides good output for music, my only issue with it is it doesn't reach as low as I would like it to. The SVS would fix that no problem, but for me the size was also important and I knew the trade off when I got the x200, I don't regret the decision though I do wish I had 2 to even the bass out throughout the room.

I seriously doubt you know what the tradeoff is (have you tried an appropriately sized sub for your room?), or you would never have made this statement. You definitely need a bigger sub, too. LOL

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post #28 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 07:47 AM
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Considering that I've used 12-15" NHT, Velodyne, and Infinity(90's, not today's Infinity) subs before, I'm pretty sure I know what the trade off is. Just because a room becomes big doesn't mean that the bass magically disappears, if that was the case, you'd never have large auditorium or open air concerts. The big difference is pressurization and you don't necessarily need to "feel" the bass at the same time. Heh, go tell the 2.0 crowd they don't have enough bass for music and see where that gets you biggrin.gif

I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't get something like the PB, but if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of size don't imply that he's going to be left wanting with music.
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post #29 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I'd get the RS6's,they are very nice speakers and would look good in that room. You could also find a sub your wife would ok.. Women are under the impression that they are all ugly giant boxes which is absolutely untrue. You just need to show her stuff that looks nice.

I don't think you'll get very far with this. I think you need to focus on disguising subs as tables or cabinets or otherwise hiding them somehow with screens or fabric or something. But it's tough to deny that all subs are just ugly giant boxes. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to see some examples, but I haven't seen any yet.
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post #30 of 32 Old 02-27-2014, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ien2 View Post

Considering that I've used 12-15" NHT, Velodyne, and Infinity(90's, not today's Infinity) subs before, I'm pretty sure I know what the trade off is. Just because a room becomes big doesn't mean that the bass magically disappears, if that was the case, you'd never have large auditorium or open air concerts. The big difference is pressurization and you don't necessarily need to "feel" the bass at the same time. Heh, go tell the 2.0 crowd they don't have enough bass for music and see where that gets you biggrin.gif

I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't get something like the PB, but if he doesn't want to deal with that kind of size don't imply that he's going to be left wanting with music.

We'll just have to disagree. He wants a sub where the furthest listening position is 27 feet away. The SB-1000 could very well struggle in that situation. As soon as he turned it up, the limiter could easily be kicking in.

Now the fact that your 6.5" X200 is good for you, does not imply that a small sub is good for most people. The X200 is more of a midbass module than a sub anyway.

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