Best dedicated theater 7.1 speaker setup for $6000 - Sorry - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 02-27-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm very sorry to ask this question as I know similar one have been asked a thousand times before.

I'm having a property built and need to make the vast majority of structural decisions on the theater over the next 3 weeks.

I currently have a polk lsi 5.0 setup and because I haven't really looked into speakers for 3 or 4 years I'm feeling slightly out of it. I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to get to the bottom of speakers, acoustic treatment, sound proofing, room dimensions, etc and I'm not getting any where fast.

I'm hoping for a few suggestions for speakers in my budget so I can at least figure out speaker placement and size. Preferably the fronts won't be too deep because I want to place them behind the screen. I was hoping to put the rear speakers in columns.

All suggestions would be very welcome

Thank you.
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post #2 of 30 Old 02-27-2014, 11:25 PM
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If this is for a dedicated room, I would be looking at:
3 x JBL Cinema 3677, roughly $1k each
4 x JBL 8320 Surround speakers, $250 each
2 x Hsu VTF15h,- duals for $2k shipped

There is a terrific $6k speaker/sub setup that promises to sound great. For an AVR I would be looking at a Denon AVR-X4000. The 3677's are relatively thin and are intended to go behind a AT screen. Here is review. The surrounds are the least expensive speakers to achieve THX certification, so they are a bargain at their price. The subs are beasts and are high performers themselves. Since all of the speakers are so sensitive and also an easy impedance load, you could power them just fine to Reference levels with a regular AVR. I recommended the X4000 for its superior room correction equalization and ability to independently calibrate dual subs which is very handy.
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post #3 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 12:37 AM
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Yorkville U215's might be a great choice to for LCR's, some really good deals can be found on them too.
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post #4 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 01:06 AM
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Get something built by Selah Audio or RAW Acoustics. Fully customized, biggest performance/value ratio and get exactly what you want down to the veneer and binding post finish.

Anthem MRX-500 - Vincent SAV-P200 - RAW Acoustics Lambda Plus arrays, Apex C II center - HT4 tower surrounds - CSS WR.30 sides - Rythmik FV15HP - Vizio XVT553SV - Xbox One - Xbox 360 - WD Live TV - QNAP TS212 NAS w/WD Red drives - APC H15BLK
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post #5 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the suggestions. I'll be sure to read further into all of them.

After an initial read about the Yorkville U215s I realized I had not mentioned the size of the room. It's quite small measuring 19L x 13.5W x 10H.

As far as amplifiers are concerned, I already have an integra DHC 40.1 pre amp and 2 emotiva amps (although one is currently not working).

Is the general consensus these days that monitors are best for a dedicated room?
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post #6 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 02:12 AM
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Yeah, you don't need speakers as powerful as JBL 3677s in a room of that size. I think you would want to be maybe 15' away from them. They may still work nicely but I would ask about that. You might think about powered speakers with that kind of setup. Some powered speakers you might think about are the Mackie HR824 mk2 and Emotiva Stealth 8. I would also give KRK VXT8 or KRK 10.3 monitors a look. Adam speakers are also well worth a look, and some A7Xs would fit that budget nicely. For passive speakers, I would give some JBL Studio 590 towers a look. I would still go for the Hsu subs, those will sound nice and have a lot of headroom in there.
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post #7 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 06:42 AM
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If you want a more compact version of those JBLs, you could take a look at the Chane Theater Ten. You could grab 7 for 2500, and then I would invest in a pair of Rythmik FV15HP subs. With the last $1000, I would buy room treatments, unless you are already planning on this, or perhaps a nice Oppo BD-105 if you don't already have a good source player.

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post #8 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 08:12 AM
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I wouldn't hesitate to put the 3677's in a room that size. I have the big brother to them (4622's) in a room about the same size. The JBL stuff often shows up used on eBay and elsewhere. I paid less than $1300 for my three.
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post #9 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 08:28 AM
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Yep, love my 3677's. I sit about 11.5 feet away and they are great. When you hear people talking up high sensitivity pro speakers for use in a dedicated room, believe it. Awesome.
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post #10 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 08:30 AM
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Also, I think gpmbc had the 3677's and is now running the yorkvilles, so he may be a good person to ask for a comparison. I'd like to hear the Yorkvilles as well and he lives pretty close, I'll be interested in the differences as soon as I can find time to get over to his place for a demo smile.gif
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post #11 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 09:49 AM
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I hear you on the room size thing but honestly if your going with an AT screen/false wall setup you could easily hide them behind that and they would work with your room dimensions.
You should shoot forum member Andrew aka Gorilla83 a PM if you have any questions about the York U215's, he runs them in his theater and he's along hosted two GTG's where such speakers as JTR 212ht's, Seaton Cat 12c, Danley SM60f's, and a bunch of other very high end speakers were present. I think he could give you a pretty good opinion on his thoughts of all of those speakers.

From what I've gathered from reading his remarks the U215's punch pretty high above their weight to hold up fairly well to those other speakers that cost way more then the U215's.
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post #12 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkkwaz View Post

Also, I think gpmbc had the 3677's and is now running the yorkvilles, so he may be a good person to ask for a comparison. I'd like to hear the Yorkvilles as well and he lives pretty close, I'll be interested in the differences as soon as I can find time to get over to his place for a demo smile.gif

There's a Long & McQuade music store close to me that rents speakers and they offer the York U215's for only $85 for a month, so I might rent a pair just for fun to compare against my JTR 228HT's. smile.gif
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post #13 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all very much for the suggestions. I truly appreciate it.

I'm so surprised by the responses and that the general consensus is that monitors are the way to go. When I was last buying speakers the advice was to buy consumer speakers are and I only ever heard brands like KEF, M&K, B&W etc mentioned. Although buying professional speaks seems a bit of a risk since I probably won't be able to demo them, I like the idea of paying for performance rather than looks.
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Some powered speakers you might think about are the Mackie HR824 mk2 and Emotiva Stealth 8. I would also give KRK VXT8 or KRK 10.3 monitors a look. Adam speakers are also well worth a look, and some A7Xs would fit that budget nicely. For passive speakers, I would give some JBL Studio 590 towers a look. I would still go for the Hsu subs, those will sound nice and have a lot of headroom in there.

I'll be sure to look into all of the speakers that you suggested thank you.
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

If you want a more compact version of those JBLs, you could take a look at the Chane Theater Ten. You could grab 7 for 2500, and then I would invest in a pair of Rythmik FV15HP subs. With the last $1000, I would buy room treatments, unless you are already planning on this, or perhaps a nice Oppo BD-105 if you don't already have a good source player.

The budget I have set myself is for speakers only but if I could come in below 6k as you suggest it would be a big bonus. I have set a separate budget for the Oppo, sound treatment, projector, screen etc.

The Integra DHC 40.1 may only have a connection for one sub. There appears to be 2 sub pre outs and the website claims the processor is 7.2 but the manual indicates that you can only connect 1 sub.
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I hear you on the room size thing but honestly if your going with an AT screen/false wall setup you could easily hide them behind that and they would work with your room dimensions.
You should shoot forum member Andrew aka Gorilla83 a PM if you have any questions about the York U215's, he runs them in his theater and he's along hosted two GTG's where such speakers as JTR 212ht's, Seaton Cat 12c, Danley SM60f's, and a bunch of other very high end speakers were present. I think he could give you a pretty good opinion on his thoughts of all of those speakers.

From what I've gathered from reading his remarks the U215's punch pretty high above their weight to hold up fairly well to those other speakers that cost way more then the U215's.

The U215s are very interesting but I'm slightly concerned about their size. I want the screen wall to be as close to the front wall as possible and when the speakers are more than 16 inches deep that becomes difficult. Having said that, the sound is extremely important to me and if these end up being a lot better than others I would have to sacrifice size.
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I wouldn't hesitate to put the 3677's in a room that size. I have the big brother to them (4622's) in a room about the same size. The JBL stuff often shows up used on eBay and elsewhere. I paid less than $1300 for my three.

Discounts are always good. If you managed to get your 3 for $1300 should I be looking to get even better speakers refurbished or ex-demo or would I not be able to improve too much on these? The price seems unbelievably good. I current speakers cost more.

Since it's hard to demo professional speakers my concern is what I've heard about their neutrality. I've heard people say they have less character than consumer loud speakers. Although, technically, I do understand what they are saying I really can't picture it. Is there a source of information out their that paints a picture of the differences?
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post #14 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if I mentioned it but the room will also be used for music.
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post #15 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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One final point; I don't know if this means anything with regards to professional speakers but I'd never been left in awe of the sound at a professional movie theater.
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post #16 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 03:22 PM
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if you have any access to the tools and are fairly handy I would suggest building your subs. I personally had dual PSA XS30's and I've recently sold them to go DIY, what I built for $3000 would cost you double that to buy from an ID company. Just two of the subs that I've built would crush dual FV15HP's.
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post #17 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

if you have any access to the tools and are fairly handy I would suggest building your subs. I personally had dual PSA XS30's and I've recently sold them to go DIY, what I built for $3000 would cost you double that to buy from an ID company. Just two of the subs that I've built would crush dual FV15HP's.

+1 on that, and if you can do DIY subs, DIY speakers would be a great alternative as well. Some very good choices, SEOS and Pi kits. These kits are relatively easy to throw to gether, especially if you get flat packs, and there is a lot of resources to help you out there. Just look around the DIY sub forum for ideas, and ask about SEOS and Pis, they are very high bang for the buck choices.
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post #18 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post

I'm very sorry to ask this question as I know similar one have been asked a thousand times before.

I'm having a property built and need to make the vast majority of structural decisions on the theater over the next 3 weeks.

I currently have a polk lsi 5.0 setup and because I haven't really looked into speakers for 3 or 4 years I'm feeling slightly out of it. I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to get to the bottom of speakers, acoustic treatment, sound proofing, room dimensions, etc and I'm not getting any where fast.

I'm hoping for a few suggestions for speakers in my budget so I can at least figure out speaker placement and size. Preferably the fronts won't be too deep because I want to place them behind the screen. I was hoping to put the rear speakers in columns.

All suggestions would be very welcome

Thank you.

If you can, try to avoid room dimensions that are multiples of each other. 12 x 24 x 8 would be a very difficult environment to tune, whereas 15 x 24 x 9 would be much better. As to speakers, you should go listen, if possible. Find the speakers that suit your taste but do not have to be too far from the wall for optimum performance.
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post #19 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post

Discounts are always good. If you managed to get your 3 for $1300 should I be looking to get even better speakers refurbished or ex-demo or would I not be able to improve too much on these? The price seems unbelievably good. I current speakers cost more.

That's why I bought the Pro JBL's! There is so much knowledge and abundance of parts, they are easy to upgrade. I have swapped my CD's to the better 2451-SL's. I have also gone to active amps with the pre-sets for my speakers. Upgrade? Here you go!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-3730-Three-Way-Bi-Amplified-Passive-ScreenArray-Cinema-Loudspeaker-System-/181327448456?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item2a37f54988

They are pretty tall though. These speakers were originally about $3k each. Remember, these speakers (the likes of them) were used in your local cinema.
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post #20 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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If you can, try to avoid room dimensions that are multiples of each other. 12 x 24 x 8 would be a very difficult environment to tune, whereas 15 x 24 x 9 would be much better. As to speakers, you should go listen, if possible. Find the speakers that suit your taste but do not have to be too far from the wall for optimum performance.

The room is 19 x 13.5 x 10 which I've been told is pretty good. When I said I was trying to work out size I meant the size of the speakers because their dimensions will directly affect the screen walls and columns.

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Are you trying to kill me with those speakers? I can picture my ears bleeding.
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Remember, these speakers (the likes of them) were used in your local cinema.

That is one of my big concerns. With the exception of the power I'm never really blown away by the audio at the theater, whereas when listening to certain home theater reference speakers I have been left speechless. Also, please ignore my ignorance but would the speakers in a professional theater not be optimized for a large room with many different listening positions?
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post #21 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 06:49 PM
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You have a great size room Andrew, especially with 9' ceilings. You room size is similar to mine, The front of my room is 14' wide and the length is 19.5' with 8' ceilings and then at the back of the room where my two rows of seating are its 12' wide.
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post #22 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

You have a great size room Andrew, especially with 9' ceilings. You room size is similar to mine, The front of my room is 14' wide and the length is 19.5' with 8' ceilings and then at the back of the room where my two rows of seating are its 12' wide.

What size screen do you have? I was planning on using a 120" screen and don't see how I can fit a second row in.
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post #23 of 30 Old 02-28-2014, 07:07 PM
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I run a 120" diagonal 16:9 Falcon screen and LOVE it, I HIGHLY recommend the Falcon screens. If you want I can PM you some pictures. I'm just in the middle of finishing up my screen wall and the carpet is going on the front stage next week. This coming week I'll finish up with fabric frame panels to around the screen.
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-12-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

There's a Long & McQuade music store close to me that rents speakers and they offer the York U215's for only $85 for a month, so I might rent a pair just for fun to compare against my JTR 228HT's. smile.gif

Wow, did you ever do this? I am considering moving my 228's to my living room and getting 3 u215's.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #25 of 30 Old 05-12-2014, 06:19 PM
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Wow, did you ever do this? I am considering moving my 228's to my living room and getting 3 u215's.

I'm going to host a GTG in July, so I'm going to rent a pair to have on hand for the GTG. I'll post some impressions after the event.
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post #26 of 30 Old 05-12-2014, 06:28 PM
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Awesome! Very interested in your impressions.

I like the idea of dual 15's but the jtr 215 RT's are too big and much more than I want to spend.

What kind of place is that where you are renting them from? Wonder if I have a place like that locally?

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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post #27 of 30 Old 05-12-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

Awesome! Very interested in your impressions.

I like the idea of dual 15's but the jtr 215 RT's are too big and much more than I want to spend.

What kind of place is that where you are renting them from? Wonder if I have a place like that locally?

http://www.long-mcquade.com/

Only $85 to rent a pair for a month.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-12-2014, 07:11 PM
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If it were me- I would skip the 7.1 and stay 5.1 and I also wouldn't be shy about using that budget on the front three and fill in the rears in the near future. Nice budget but can do so much more without the rears and fill in later. By deciding front three you can plan for rears even though buying later.

And um I would listen on my own where possible. Decide front three and see if you can pick up l/r on Audiogon and buy center new if need be.

I found a mint pair of Dynaudio Focus 340s at 57 percent MSRP shipped/paypal fees. Will buy the center new from dealer. Can't beat it-

Buying in pieces over time will always make a happier camper in my opinion. 7.1 is not necessary to start.

Good Luck

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post #29 of 30 Old 05-13-2014, 11:19 AM
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Did you ever try contacting RAW or Selah? I think the proaudio solutions recommended here are way overkill for a room that size.

Anthem MRX-500 - Vincent SAV-P200 - RAW Acoustics Lambda Plus arrays, Apex C II center - HT4 tower surrounds - CSS WR.30 sides - Rythmik FV15HP - Vizio XVT553SV - Xbox One - Xbox 360 - WD Live TV - QNAP TS212 NAS w/WD Red drives - APC H15BLK
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post #30 of 30 Old 05-13-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

http://www.long-mcquade.com/

Only $85 to rent a pair for a month.

Lucky! I have a place near me that rents yorkville but from looking at their site they don't have the u215's.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
3 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in Ported Boxes for LCR's
2 - SVS SB13+'s (living room)
1 - SVS SB12-NSD (bedroom)
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