Bose vs Paradigm vs Dali(First home theatre thread) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 03-09-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

I am in the market for a new home theatre system.

The market for home theatres is very niche and very expensive where I am from so I apologise in advance as I really don't have many options for other companies aside from these...

This is my first post so please go easy on me >_<"...

The first option is the Bose Lifestyle 535 Series II which is an all inclusive pack of everything and comes with compact speakers and AV system.

Heard it, sounds great, some of the technology they have applied there in the software is fantastic. 

However I do know that in the Bose store I was in an acoustically treated room with a full enclosure and the room affects the sound so i needed more options...

The other store I went to gave me two options for the same price range namely

The Paradigm Milenia one with the Milenia sub

 

which is to be routed in a separately bought Onkyo TX-NR626 Av receiver

 

or

 

Dali Fazon Sat speakers

Subwoofers : E127

 

 

Routed through the same Onkyo TX-NR626 bought separately...

 

 
Now I could not audition them all in the same room and to my idiot ears they all sound good...

They are all around the same price except the bose which are marginally higher

Any tips suggestions and comments are welcome to help me out !!

Thank you so much

 

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post #2 of 64 Old 03-09-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddy View Post

However I do know that in the Bose store I was in an acoustically treated room with a full enclosure and the room affects the sound so i needed more options...
There's also the matter of all the additional electronics probably used. There's a reason why Bose retailers will never have Bose in the same room with a good system. Read this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130121081646/http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

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post #3 of 64 Old 03-09-2014, 09:53 AM
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The Paradigm MilleniaOne is your best choice from those three.
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post #4 of 64 Old 03-09-2014, 10:08 AM
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Bose are overpriced for what you get, and they are carefully setup (by Bose) in demo rooms to make the best of what they are such that you may never achieve that sound in your room.

I'd go with the Paradigm Milenia One with their sub. Although if you want to save money, there are subs from SVS Audio, HSU Research, Rythmik, and Power Sound audio that would work just as well for less money.

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post #5 of 64 Old 03-10-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddy View Post

Hey guys,


I am in the market for a new home theatre system.


The market for home theatres is very niche and very expensive where I am from so I apologise in advance as I really don't have many options for other companies aside from these...


This is my first post so please go easy on me >_<"...


The first option is the Bose Lifestyle 535 Series II which is an all inclusive pack of everything and comes with compact speakers and AV system.


Heard it, sounds great, some of the technology they have applied there in the software is fantastic. 


However I do know that in the Bose store I was in an acoustically treated room with a full enclosure and the room affects the sound so i needed more options...


The other store I went to gave me two options for the same price range namely


The Paradigm Milenia one with the Milenia sub

which is to be routed in a separately bought Onkyo TX-NR626 Av receiver

or

Dali Fazon Sat speakers
Subwoofers : E127


Routed through the same Onkyo TX-NR626 bought separately...

 

Now I could not audition them all in the same room and to my idiot ears they all sound good...


They are all around the same price except the bose which are marginally higher


Any tips suggestions and comments are welcome to help me out !!


Thank you so much


 

Actually, I made a thread back a couple months ago that addresses your situation, except it's not Bose vs Paradigm vs Dali. It's Bose vs EMP Tek vs Orb Audio vs Hsu.

Here's the link to the entire thread, which speaks to a whole range of Bose alternatives to their home systems: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1515129/bose-killers-for-every-budget-a-series

Here is the part that addresses their Lifestyle 535:

1. The Lifestyle 535 Series II at $3300 includes a set of 5 of Bose’s JewelCubes, one of Bose’s Acoustimass modules, their AV receiver with 4 HDMI inputs and 1 HDMI output, an AdaptIQ calibration microphone and headset, a remote control and remote sensor. This is the second of 2 Bose systems that can connect via HDMI, but features no blu-ray playback.

Ease of Use – We’re going with Onkyo for this solution, specifically the TX-NR929 for $1200. It gives you plenty of power in the largest rooms yet simple control via Onkyo’s Control App, HDMI video to a second zone, THX Select 2 Plus certification, plus Audyssey’s MultEQ XT32, for equalizing up to 2 subwoofers flawlessly! For the speakers, $2114 (yes, I know, we went over by $14! You’ll thank me, and here’s why). You get the EMP Tek E55Ti Tower pair, an EMP Tek E56Ci Center, an EMP Tek E5Bi Monitor pair, and a droolworthy Hsu Research VTF-3 MK4 subwoofer in rosenut.

Low Profile/style – This Harman Kardon BDS SO 5.1 does Bose one better in this configuration. It combines a 5.1 channel amplifier with an integrated blu-ray player, for only $700. For low profile style, you really can’t top these Orb Audio Mod2X PLUS 5.1 system, including subwoofer, for $1876. Orb includes a 12 foot subwoofer cable in the bundle AND 100 ft. 16 gauge speaker wire! This brings you to $2576, letting you pocket quite a bit of the difference, all the while showing what premium audio can do.

Sound Quality
– We’re reaching out to one of our favorite and most well-regarded internet direct brands for this one! Yes, I’m talking about Hsu Research, and this time it’s their Ultra 15 5.1 Package, coming in at $2049 in a premium Rosenut finish. It features their ULS-15 subwoofer that reaches down to 15Hz, four of their HB-1 MK2 monitors and the matching HC-1 MK2 center. For the receiver, we’re going with Yamaha’s RX-A1030BL for just $1100, with great movie night sound plus HDMI-based second zone for multiroom flexibility. Their YPAO Room Correction system will also fine-tune the sound for your room. This gives you $151 for cables at monoprice, and a little left for popcorn and drinks.

I hope this helps.

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post #6 of 64 Old 03-10-2014, 09:56 PM
 
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+1 Paradigm MilleniaOne. Excellent sounding small speakers. I haven't heard that model Dali speakers. You will not find a lot of love for Bose on any forum. I've heard Bose many times and IMHO they are extremely over priced. They are step above the HTIB (home theater in a box) you find at Walmart and Costco but many of HTIB at Best Buy will kill it for a fraction of the price. I will give Bose accolades for good service and support though.

If you are willing to spend the money of a lifestyle 535 the MilleniaOne system is an excellent alternative for a smaller speaker system. Pair it with a decent receiver and universal remote to control your system and you will never want to hear another Bose system again:D
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post #7 of 64 Old 03-26-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ttlnb View Post

+1 Paradigm MilleniaOne. Excellent sounding small speakers. I haven't heard that model Dali speakers. You will not find a lot of love for Bose on any forum. I've heard Bose many times and IMHO they are extremely over priced. They are step above the HTIB (home theater in a box) you find at Walmart and Costco but many of HTIB at Best Buy will kill it for a fraction of the price. I will give Bose accolades for good service and support though.

If you are willing to spend the money of a lifestyle 535 the MilleniaOne system is an excellent alternative for a smaller speaker system. Pair it with a decent receiver and universal remote to control your system and you will never want to hear another Bose system again:D

 

You want to tell me what Paradigm Millenia 5.1 set-up, plus receiver, I can get that looks and sounds better than the Bose for $2,800?

 

:confused: 

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post #8 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 03:33 AM
 
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I think it looks better but that is personal choice:D. Anyway..

Paradigm MilleniaOne 3.0 and MilleniaOne 2.0 system. $1248

http://paradigm.com/products-current/type=bookshelf/model=milleniaone-3.0-system/page=overview
http://paradigm.com/products-current/type=bookshelf/model=milleniaone-2.0-system/page=overview

Paradigm Monitor Sub 8, 10 or 12. If we only have to beat the 5-6" woofer in the Bose bass module the Monitor 8 will crush it. If you want more oomph than go bigger. And all these subs can use PBK which helps find the best sub location and EQs it. $699-$999.

http://paradigm.com/products-current/type=subwoofer/series=monitor

Paradigm PBK highly recommended. $99.

http://paradigm.com/products-current/type=accessory/model=perfect-bass-kit/page=overview

Universal remote less than $100.

That leaves $350-$800 depending on what remote and subwoofer you choose for the receiver. Pick your favorite brand of receiver.

Easily a Bose killer. Bose is over priced for what you get. This system will crush it. But if you want something more equivalent to Bose for less money look at these. While not as good as the Paradigm system they are comparable to Bose for less money.

http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/prod_class.php?class=Systems&source=globalnav

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hometheater-systems/home-theater-package/

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hometheater-systems/blu-ray_home_theater_system/bdx-610bl/?mode=model
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post #9 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 03:39 AM
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I wouldn't want the Bose Lifestyle 535 even if were free, I can build a nicer system for £500. The Bose would be acceptable if it was about £300.

If anyone wants to send me a Bose free, I'll tape myself throwing it into the tip.

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post #10 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 08:44 AM
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I wouldn't want the Bose Lifestyle 535 even if were free, I can build a nicer system for £500. The Bose would be acceptable if it was about £300.

If anyone wants to send me a Bose free, I'll tape myself throwing it into the tip.

 

You know what is funny... is the fact that everyone who actually HAS the 535/535 II - absolutely LOVES it...

 

Every review I have seen for it, by people who actually own it - have given it 5 out of 5 stars - and completely rave about it.

 

In fact, many have commented on the fact that they used to use huge tower speakers with expensive components - and they 535/535 II sounds just as good.

 

It is only the people who don't own it who seem to bash it.

 

Is it worth the $3,200 they are asking for it - in my opinion - no...

 

But you can get it for around $2,500 - which makes it a little better.

 

I am seriously considering it - as I really want to unclutter my living room and get ride of all of the huge tower/center/surround speakers, etc...

 

Just my take on it.

 

:p

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post #11 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:09 AM
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I can tell you I have heard several Bose setups AND the Only positive thing about bose is the small size..... I have honestly had and heard $500 Onkyo HTIB's that sound better than a $2500 bose system. Fact is bose = small speakers with pretty good sound for their size + a wannabe sub + a way out of this world price. If bose sold their 5.1 or 7.1 systems for about $300 to $500 I may actually recommend them to ppl who want tiny speakers. I think the ppl that think bose sounds good just don't know what good sound is. AND I'm not bashing them, sometimes ignorance is bliss. I used to be a bose fan before I ever had a system, but then the more I heard bose and other products I became highly educated on sound and how bose works.

Shawn
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post #12 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:29 AM
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The Focal Dome 5.1
http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/21352

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-3972-focal-dome-51-mini-speaker-system.aspx

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5IWTKbk3gR8/TOr0I-Y6_hI/AAAAAAAAACQ/HZtzJptfzmw/s1600/Focal+Dome+2.jpg

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post #13 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I can tell you I have heard several Bose setups AND the Only positive thing about bose is the small size..... I have honestly had and heard $500 Onkyo HTIB's that sound better than a $2500 bose system. Fact is bose = small speakers with pretty good sound for their size + a wannabe sub + a way out of this world price. If bose sold their 5.1 or 7.1 systems for about $300 to $500 I may actually recommend them to ppl who want tiny speakers. I think the ppl that think bose sounds good just don't know what good sound is. AND I'm not bashing them, sometimes ignorance is bliss. I used to be a bose fan before I ever had a system, but then the more I heard bose and other products I became highly educated on sound and how bose works.

 

Not to argue - because if there really is better (for the size) out there - I would like to know.

 

I am not committed to Bose by any means.

 

However, as stated, the people who actually OWN the Bose systems - absolutely LOVE them.

 

And as stated, a lot of them had large tower speakers with some nice equipment powering them before purchasing their Bose 535 II system.

 

You really can't argue with reviews from people who actually own the 535 II...

 

Read the reviews:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bose-Lifestyle-Series-Entertainment-System/product-reviews/B00FGLTYEG/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

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post #14 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

However, as stated, the people who actually OWN the Bose systems - absolutely LOVE them.

And as stated, a lot of them had large tower speakers with some nice equipment powering them before purchasing their Bose 535 II system.

You really can't argue with reviews from people who actually own the 535 II...

Read the reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/Bose-Lifestyle-Series-Entertainment-System/product-reviews/B00FGLTYEG/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

It's not hard to find people who love Bose systems. But most of the time, they've never compared them to setups like the ones that are regularly recommended here. There is no way that a set of cube speakers with an acoustimass bass module can outperform more full range bookshelves and a good ID sub. Five reviews don't trump physics (lol).

Not to mention, if you cite something with five reviews like you did, good chance some of them are schills. Bose is well known for recruiting people to post comments and testimonials.

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post #15 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:43 AM
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However, as stated, the people who actually OWN the Bose systems - absolutely LOVE them.
That makes them either tone deaf or female, or both. No offense to females, but in general most women don't care if it sounds good, only if it looks good, 'good' meaning preferably invisible. The term WAF wasn't coined in response to a few isolated incidents.
As for a review that's actually worth reading, go back to Post # 2, click on the link.
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post #16 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:45 AM
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It's not hard to find people who love Bose systems. But most of the time, they've never compared them to setups like the ones that are regularly recommended here. There is no way that a set of cube speakers with an acoustimass bass module can outperform more full range bookshelves and a good ID sub. Five reviews don't trump physics (lol).

Not to mention, if you cite something with five reviews like you did, good chance some of them are schills. Bose is well known for recruiting people to post comments and testimonials.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post


That makes them either tone deaf or female, or both. No offense to females, but in general most women don't care if it sounds good, only if it looks good, 'good' meaning preferably invisible. The term WAF wasn't coined in response to a few isolated incidents.
As for a review that's actually worth reading, go back to Post # 2, click on the link.

 

LOL, the hatred for Bose is strong in this one...

 

:p

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post #17 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 09:54 AM
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LOL, the hatred for Bose is strong in this one...

tongue.gif

Actually, you are showing a lot of love. I'm demonstrating objectivity wink.gif
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post #18 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 10:03 AM
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Actually, you are showing a lot of love. I'm demonstrating objectivity wink.gif

 

LOL, the only way for you to show objectivity - would be for you to have listened extensively to the 535 II - before saying it isn't any good...

 

:p

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post #19 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 10:14 AM
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It's not hard to find people who love Bose systems. But most of the time, they've never compared them to setups like the ones that are regularly recommended here.
Bingo!

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post #20 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 10:20 AM
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Like I said, I am not fan-boy of Bose - never had a Bose...

 

Would just be nice to get advice from people who have actually had them or auditioned them for awhile - before saying that they don't like them...

 

That's all!

 

:)

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post #21 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 10:20 AM
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LOL, the only way for you to show objectivity - would be for you to have listened extensively to the 535 II - before saying it isn't any good...

tongue.gif

This is AVS you know - where the S stands for science.

That means one can look at the frequency response capabilities of a system and state objectively whether it is capable of reproducing all of the signals provided to it.

The objective FACT is that the Bose systems are NOT capable of reproducing all of the signals sent to them.

The subjective OPINIONs you refer to are that people who own Bose are happy with the way they reproduce the signals provided to them.

If you are interested in hearing all of the sounds in your movies or music, then you would not choose Bose because of OBJECTIVE analysis of the facts.

If you are unconcerned with hearing everything the producers meant you to hear, then you may be SUBJECTIVELY pleased with the excellent but partial reproduction produced by the Bose rolleyes.gif

Personally, I want to hear all of it from 20Hz to 20kHz, so I will only choose systems which are capable of reproducing that entire range. For me, Bose is not an option because of this requirement cool.gif
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post #22 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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Bill F,

Great read on the Bose Demo Rooms.

I had 901's and believe it or not , I liked them. Had them powered by a Carver 375 WPC Amp back in my stereo days. Yes, my 7.2 Paradigm / Sunfire system out performed them, but that's with a lot more speakers. I put the 901's up for sale and they went quickly.

One thing I can give credit to Bose for, is I think they got the idea of combining book shelve speakers and or satellites with a sub going with other manufacturers. Their AM-5 models of the 80's and another high end brand of the late 70's (can't remember the brand) was the first time I heard such a combination. Before that, everyone bought large floor standers for the bass.

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post #23 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 11:54 AM
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Bill F,
One thing I can give credit to Bose for, is I think they got the idea of combining book shelve speakers and or satellites with a sub going with other manufacturers. Their AM-5 models of the 80's and another high end brand of the late 70's (can't remember the brand) was the first time I heard such a combination. Before that, everyone bought large floor standers for the bass.
The first successful commercial version for consumer audio was from my acquaintance Henry Kloss when he was at Cambridge Soundworks in the 1980s. Amar quickly copied it. I made my first sub/satellite system in 1972, which Henry really liked. But my sub was a woofer only Klipschorn, so it wasn't exactly the model for his Ensemble. My rig wasn't an original invention by any means, the concept dates to the 1950s. I made mine because I wanted the low end of a KHorn but didn't have two available corners to run a pair of them.

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post #24 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That makes them either tone deaf or female, or both. No offense to females, but in general most women don't care if it sounds good, only if it looks good, 'good' meaning preferably invisible. The term WAF wasn't coined in response to a few isolated incidents.
As for a review that's actually worth reading, go back to Post # 2, click on the link.

Just a few isolated incidents of WAF. Could you imagine a world in which that was true? Take me there!
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post #25 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 01:53 PM
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Plenty of small speakers exist, however you cannot get around the laws of physics. 7 piezo buzzers and a 1" driver cannot reproduce frequency range.

I'd recommend speakers like Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 at the very least (£40 a pair) Match that with a £300 subwoofer, and a £250 AV amplifier and it'll totally obliterate Bose sound quality, build, connectivity, upgradability.

Knock a zero off Bose retail prices and it'll be acceptable. £3500? You're having a laugh.
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Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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post #26 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 01:56 PM
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The only reason to buy Bose is if you want to impress people that are completely ignorant on the subject of physics. You literally can NOT get good sound quality out of tiny Bose cubes with a "bass module". That's not a subjective opinion, it's a fact backed by physics. Buying Bose is buying a marketing campaign. You'd get a similar sound quality by buying any generic HTIB setup. For the price of the "high end" Bose stuff, your alternative options are practically limitless (Hsu + Marantz NR1403 would be my preference). Think about this: You can buy 4 custom made Salk Songbirds and 1 Salk SongCenter for a bit more than the Bose setup. That doesn't include an AVR but, you are buying heirloom quality speakers at that price instead of tiny plastic cubes.
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post #27 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 02:01 PM
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hmmm Bose 535 or this (same price)

Can't make my mind up

http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.php?_ARC_380_DAL_IKON6MK2_51_&CAT=HCSYS&ID=8228&ns=

This would totally destroy the Bose
http://www.creative-audio.co.uk/HD.php?_YAM_375_WHF_DX1HCP_51_&CAT=HCSYS&ID=7826&ns=

Buy 7 of them for same price as Bose

One for the master bedroom
One for the living room
One for the second bedroom
One for the dining room
One for the garage
One for the shed
One for the kids room

rofl

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post #28 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmanyon View Post

Just a few isolated incidents of WAF. Could you imagine a world in which that was true? Take me there!
You can find it in Orlando and Anaheim, It's called 'Fantasy Land'. wink.gif

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The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
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post #29 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsdms View Post

The only reason to buy Bose is if you want to impress people that are completely ignorant on the subject of physics.

That's neither true nor fair. The reason to buy Bose is that you are looking for high WAF, you have heard and like the sound of Bose, and you (the purchaser) does not know or understand system frequency response and value.

They aren't out to mischievously impress those who are uninformed, they are uninformed themselves and truly like what they bought.

The point isn't to malign them - it is to educate them and ensure they don't misinform others.
Quote:
You literally can NOT get good sound quality out of tiny Bose cubes with a "bass module". That's not a subjective opinion, it's a fact backed by physics.

Again, that is not exactly true.

You can not get full audio spectrum good sound quality - that's true.

But the portions of the spectrum they do reproduce, they do with good sound quality. That's why people like them.
Quote:
Buying Bose is buying a marketing campaign. You'd get a similar sound quality by buying any generic HTIB setup. For the price of the "high end" Bose stuff, your alternative options are practically limitless (Hsu + Marantz NR1403 would be my preference). Think about this: You can buy 4 custom made Salk Songbirds and 1 Salk SongCenter for a bit more than the Bose setup. That doesn't include an AVR but, you are buying heirloom quality speakers at that price instead of tiny plastic cubes.

Oh there is no question that Bose has effective marketing and that just about anything else is better value.

But again, it is not about attacking people who made the purchase - it is about informing them, and more importantly, ensuring that they don't misinform others.
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post #30 of 64 Old 03-27-2014, 02:52 PM
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I've had a chance to hear some Bose stuff out in the real world. My opinion of them is they are decent for what they are, as long as you're not considering price. If you're somebody who wants small speakers and not a lot of clutter, and you're not terribly concerned with quality, then Bose might be right for you. The problem is that when you factor in the price, there is simply no way to justify what the company is charging. I think there are a lot of people out there who would go with Bose just because it's such a clean way to get surround sound. If nothing else their systems aren't ugly. Not everybody is going to be will to go with tower speakers and a giant sub, because they can be ugly. If their prices were considerably lower (say $300-$500 for a system) I wouldn't be opposed to using a Bose system in a bedroom. I don't think there is a universe where they are being used on my primary system however.

I have Bose speakers in my car. I'm sure they're terribly overrated, but honestly I like them.
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AVR: Denon 2112
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