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post #31 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

For pure movies, I would look at 1) Klipsch THX Ultra2 or 2) Jamo THX Ultra2 speakers. Deals can be had. In other words, "street" prices are a lot lower than MSRP.

The cheapest Ive found the Klipsch THX Ultras is about a thousand each on ebay. this would go over my budget. Plus I don't usually don't buy stuff like this on ebay due to warranty issue with unauthorized dealers.

Will the Jamo THX Ultra2 be enough for my room 30 x 15>
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post #32 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 02:44 PM
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Go for the JBL Cinema it will easily fill your room-you won't be disappointed.
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post #33 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 02:44 PM
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I found these which have a 30 day in home trial. You could buy 7 of those and still have a good chunk for a couple of subs.

http://chanemusiccinema.com/Theater-Ten

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post #34 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

I was sub shopping the past few weeks and, personally, decided there wasn't anywhere near enough information, experience, or history with Reaction to even consider forking over that kind of money. There are just so many time-proven companies and models to choose from...really doesn't seem worth the risk.

If you search and read around enough you may notice a pattern when it comes to some posters and their bias for and against certain sub manufacturers. 


Well, I've read some of the Reaction sub thread - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512281/reaction-audio-subs . http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/blogs/news/12880741-a-busy-march-indeed
The dude worked for Chase (now Chane) ID speaker company for years.

Seems like a pretty reliable guy - so I went ahead today and bought their least expensive model.
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post #35 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

I'm leaning towards this setup. Just have question about connecting the QSC to the SR5008.

I see on the SR5008 pre-outs that you have one right, one left and one center RCA jack but the QSC has a left and right. Will I need to split the SR5008 Pre-out to connect to both of the QSCs L and R RCAs?

I would just use a single RCA input on the plate amp. It probably wouldn't hurt anything to use a splitter off the same channel, but I don't think it would be beneficial either.

As far as an above comment about the K speakers just being PA speakers, it's true that they are built primarily for live sound applications, but they are so well made and the sound quality is so good that many guys have tried them with home audio to great success. Here is a thread in the DIY forum discussing their applicability for home audio, many of the guys in that thread are very knowledgeable, and they really know what they are talking about. Also, don't take my word for it, or theirs, many pro-audio stores carry this line of speakers, so like I said, call up your local pro-audio stores and see if they can set some up to demo for you. It doesn't hurt to inquire and demos are free. The manual is online if you want to acquaint yourself with it before hand.
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post #36 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

I found these which have a 30 day in home trial. You could buy 7 of those and still have a good chunk for a couple of subs.
http://chanemusiccinema.com/Theater-Ten

Another member suggested them but I couldn't find any reviews on them.
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post #37 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 05:05 PM
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Here is some discussion about the Theater 10s. The Chase/Chane brand is a bit 'controversial'. Personally, I would not trade QSC Ks for the Theater 10s.
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post #38 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 09:04 PM
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Buy the JBL's and don't look back!
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post #39 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Buy the JBL's and don't look back!

Trans, Thank you for your input.

The JBLs you suggested look great but they're over my budget. I have a hard 5K budget maybe I can go 100 or 200 over at the most.

Do you have any suggestions within my price range.
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post #40 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 10:17 PM
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How close do you get if you go with a single sub and 1 pr of surrounds?
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post #41 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

Hi all,

I need some advice. I have $5000 to spent on speakers for 7.1 or 7.2 HT. 100% Movies. The room is 30 by 15 no openings (except 1 Door of course) . I was looking to pair them with a Martaz 5008 but would except advice on the Receiver too if anyone would like to give me other options as I haven't bought that yet.

Any suggestions would be a big help.

TIA


With that budget i would I think the golden ear technology triton 7 and sonus faber venere 2.5/3.0 are the best, either of those with a nice marantz reciever from AC4L and the matching center, save and get the surrounds and sub later
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post #42 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 10:33 PM
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QSC has a full line of commercial cinema speakers.
I'll see if i can find some pricing.
http://qsccinema.com/products?family=Loudspeakers&series=DCS%20Series
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post #43 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 11:06 PM
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I would be very surprised if any of QSC's cinema line fit the OP's budget. What's more, those cinema speakers need active crossovers and processing, and those kind of electronics would absolutely put any QSC commercial cinema setup way over that budget. There is no doubt though that QSC commercial cinema speakers would be amazing.
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post #44 of 89 Old 03-14-2014, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

How close do you get if you go with a single sub and 1 pr of surrounds?

I'm not sure because I don't know how many pre-amps I'll need. I believe the JBL subwoofer isn't powered.
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post #45 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

I'm not sure because I don't know how many pre-amps I'll need. I believe the JBL subwoofer isn't powered.
You will only need a dedicated amplifier for the subwoofer.

If you create an account with http://www.spectrumaudio.com/ you will see what they actually sell for.
I bet if you called and rquested a complete system quote it would be even less.

Lets put a system together.

3 x 3252 for left, center and right =$1,923.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3252n-screen-array.html

4 x 8320 for sides and rear =$712.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-8320.html?gclid=CJ6a2KLVlL0CFYsWMgodyWIAiw

2 x3635 subwoofer =$1,234.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3635.html?gclid=CIXj2OrVlL0CFYZcMgodlwgA_Q

1 x Crown XLS-1000 amplifier for the subwoofers =$288
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/crown-xls-1000.html
Bridge the amp and run the subwoofers in parallel to provide a 4 ohm load and you will have 1,000 watts.
You would use the x-over in the receiver to only send low frequencies to the subwoofer.
Note: The amp will have a fair amount of fan noise. Ideally you would locate outside the listening environment.

Run Audyssey MultEQ
Given the high sensitivity of these speakers your system will pound!

Total cost $4,157 + some freight and your right at your $5k budget

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post #46 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I would be very surprised if any of QSC's cinema line fit the OP's budget. What's more, those cinema speakers need active crossovers and processing, and those kind of electronics would absolutely put any QSC commercial cinema setup way over that budget. There is no doubt though that QSC commercial cinema speakers would be amazing.

Many of the QSC Cinema line have integrated passive x-overs check out the 1st four speakers in the line-up.
http://qsccinema.com/products/?family=Loudspeakers&series=DCS%20Series

The only exception is the subwoofer. Use an external amp and the x-over in the receiver.

And yes to get the most out of this or any speaker for that matter eq, time alignment and level matching are critical.
I'd run the Audyssey MultEQ and see how it sounds.

Anyway I think the JBL system fits the OP's budget nicely.
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post #47 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

You will only need a dedicated amplifier for the subwoofer.

If you create an account with http://www.spectrumaudio.com/ you will see what they actually sell for.
I bet if you called and rquested a complete system quote it would be even less.

Lets put a system together.

3 x 3252 for left, center and right =$1,923.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3252n-screen-array.html

4 x 8320 for sides and rear =$712.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-8320.html?gclid=CJ6a2KLVlL0CFYsWMgodyWIAiw

2 x3635 subwoofer =$1,234.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3635.html?gclid=CIXj2OrVlL0CFYZcMgodlwgA_Q

1 x Crown XLS-1000 amplifier for the subwoofers =$288
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/crown-xls-1000.html
Bridge the amp and run the subwoofers in parallel to provide a 4 ohm load and you will have 1,000 watts.
You would use the x-over in the receiver to only send low frequencies to the subwoofer.
Note: The amp will have a fair amount of fan noise. Ideally you would locate outside the listening environment.

Run Audyssey MultEQ
Given the high sensitivity of these speakers your system will pound!

Total cost $4,157 + some freight and your right at your $5k budget


This looks like it will work.

Will the Marantz 5008 be able to run these. I never really understood ohms but I see that the 3253s are 4 ohms and the 8320s are 8 ohms. will there be any issue?

Thanks again for your help.
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post #48 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post



2 x3635 subwoofer =$1,234.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3635.html?gclid=CIXj2OrVlL0CFYZcMgodlwgA_Q

1 x Crown XLS-1000 amplifier for the subwoofers =$288
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/crown-xls-1000.html
Bridge the amp and run the subwoofers in parallel to provide a 4 ohm load and you will have 1,000 watts.
You would use the x-over in the receiver to only send low frequencies to the subwoofer.
Note: The amp will have a fair amount of fan noise. Ideally you would locate outside the listening environment.

I noticed the subs are rated at 300 watts at 8 ohms.
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post #49 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

This looks like it will work.

Will the Marantz 5008 be able to run these. I never really understood ohms but I see that the 3253s are 4 ohms and the 8320s are 8 ohms. will there be any issue?

Thanks again for your help.

No not at all the Marantz will be loafing for a couple reasons.

Very high sensitivity
The main speakers-LCR-have a very high sensitivity rating @ 103db.
If you compare this to a consumer speaker say something like the Klipsch KL-650 which is rated at 97db-BTW very high for a consumer speaker-you have a 6db difference.
So for the Klipsch speakers to play at the same level as the JBL you would you would need four times the power!

Cross-out low frequencies/bass from the main speakers
You will likely cross-over all the speakers-with the exception of the subwoofer-at 80hz.
This will be a much easier load on the amplifier as low frequency is what sucks up power and puts substantially demands on the amplifier.
Note: You'll have to keep an eye on Audyssey as it may set your mains to full range given their frequency response capabilities.

Separate amp for the heavy lifting of bass.
Similar to above -By having a separate dedicated high power amp drive the subwoofers you dramatically reduce the strain on the Marantz.
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post #50 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

You will only need a dedicated amplifier for the subwoofer.

3 x 3252 for left, center and right =$1,923.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3252n-screen-array.html

4 x 8320 for sides and rear =$712.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-8320.html?gclid=CJ6a2KLVlL0CFYsWMgodyWIAiw

2 x3635 subwoofer =$1,234.00
http://www.spectrumaudio.com/jbl-3635.html?gclid=CIXj2OrVlL0CFYZcMgodlwgA_Q

1 x Crown XLS-1000 amplifier for the subwoofers =$288

Nice recommendation. I am a huge fan of passive subwoofers.

Another option for the subwoofer amp is the Dayton SA1000, which can power dual subs. It has 12v trigger which can make it more convenient. But the Crown XL1000 is also a great amp.
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post #51 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

I noticed the subs are rated at 300 watts at 8 ohms.

That's a continuous rating.
If your running 300 watts continuous to the woofers that are 100bd sensitive your ears will give out long before the speakers.
That being said you could always run the subwoofers in stereo if you are concerned.

Or spend a couple more bucks and step up to the 4181.

But I think you will be more than happy with the 3635
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post #52 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 12:26 PM
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Scour the used market - you'll make your budget stretch much further.

Check out my WAF approved living room theater

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1526916/my...-1-living-room
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post #53 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

That's a continuous rating.
If your running 300 watts continuous to the woofers that are 100bd sensitive your ears will give out long before the speakers.
That being said you could always run the subwoofers in stereo if you are concerned.

Or spend a couple more bucks and step up to the 4181.

But I think you will be more than happy with the 3635

It looks like the JBL 4641 is better and it's just about the same price.

If you don't mind. Would you explain to me how to hook up 2 subs to 1 amp and is there any neg. to it?
Or is it better to go with 1 amp per sub?
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post #54 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I would just use a single RCA input on the plate amp. It probably wouldn't hurt anything to use a splitter off the same channel, but I don't think it would be beneficial
From other subs I've seen instructions that powering both inputs will give you a ~6 dB boost in power. Others will correct me if I am wrong.
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post #55 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

The cheapest Ive found the Klipsch THX Ultras is about a thousand each on ebay. this would go over my budget. Plus I don't usually don't buy stuff like this on ebay due to warranty issue with unauthorized dealers.

Will the Jamo THX Ultra2 be enough for my room 30 x 15>

AVS sells the Ultra-2 stuff at 50% off of list price, at least they were the last I heard about it a couple months ago. No need to buy from eBay.
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post #56 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MarsianMan View Post

From other subs I've seen instructions that powering both inputs will give you a ~6 dB boost in power. Others will correct me if I am wrong.

Lol, it will boost the signal by 6 dB, but not the power! It won't make any difference to the end use though. The volume will mostly be controlled by the AVR, not the speakers.
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post #57 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asystole13 View Post

It looks like the JBL 4641 is better and it's just about the same price.

If you don't mind. Would you explain to me how to hook up 2 subs to 1 amp and is there any neg. to it?
Or is it better to go with 1 amp per sub?

One thing to note about those pro-subs is they do not dig very deep. With that approach you are giving up deep bass for bigger mid and upper bass. The dynamics are enormous, and they do get very loud, but the 3635 is -10 by 28 Hz, and the 4641 is -10 by 25 Hz. What that means is there isn't a whole lot of output under 30 Hz, and those subs will struggle with frequencies below that point, ie lots of distortion. They also have to be equalized for as flat frequency response, so you will want some kind of EQ system with them. I wouldn't rely on Audyssey for a flat frequency response, especially since you are only getting one sub. A single sub system presents its own problems as well.

I think the JBL 3252 speakers would be great, especially at those prices, likely better than the QSCs for your application, but be aware they are 4 ohm speakers and will present a heavier load on your receiver than normal speakers. However, they are so sensitive that doesn't look like it should ever be a problem unless your AVR turns out to be especially shoddy. The JBL 8320s should be better than my Hsu bookshelf recommends as well, especially at those prices. As for the sub though, I would not want the JBL sub though, it rolls off too high. You will be missing a lot of deep bass content with those. It is a more appropriate match for that system that the Hsu subs I recommended because the huge dynamic range is more in line with the JBL fronts, but A) you are very unlikely to get a flat response with just one sub, and B) very little deep bass at all. I would go for something like dual Hsu VTF15hs or dual SVS PC12 Plus subs, they won't get as loud as the JBL, but they will give you deep bass, a flatter response and thus a more accurate sound, and they will be much easier to setup because you probably won't have to do any EQing outside of room correction from Audyssey.
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post #58 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 07:33 PM
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Shady, many valid points for sure.
The op somewhere said he was looking for the big IMAX sound.
The JBL pro subs with some eq will pound.
Will the Audyssey do the trick? I'm not 100% on that as we have always manually EQ but I think it will get him where he wants to be.
I'm sure the consumer subs would have more extension but won't hit like the JBL's.
I'd also have some concern that they would not be able to keep up with the rest of the system at high SPL.
Either way I'm sure he would be happy.
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post #59 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 08:02 PM
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Manual EQing is always better than Audyssey. I think the JBL subs would be good. No doubt some Hsu or SVS subs wouldn't have the headroom of the JBL subs, but you could always add more later for increased headroom, but adding more JBL subs later will not make them play deeper. The VTF15h and PC12 Plus subs can hit 115 dB RMS at 2 m in a ground plane setting, so two in a room like that should be able to come near that level at his listening position. Ultimately though I would want more subwoofage for a JBL pro system like that. Four should do the trick, at least for touching THX reference levels and can be EQ'd relatively easy with something like the MiniDSP 2X4 and Umik mic.
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post #60 of 89 Old 03-15-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

One thing to note about those pro-subs is they do not dig very deep. With that approach you are giving up deep bass for bigger mid and upper bass. The dynamics are enormous, and they do get very loud, but the 3635 is -10 by 28 Hz, and the 4641 is -10 by 25 Hz. What that means is there isn't a whole lot of output under 30 Hz, and those subs will struggle with frequencies below that point, ie lots of distortion. They also have to be equalized for as flat frequency response, so you will want some kind of EQ system with them. I wouldn't rely on Audyssey for a flat frequency response, especially since you are only getting one sub. A single sub system presents its own problems as well.

I think the JBL 3252 speakers would be great, especially at those prices, likely better than the QSCs for your application, but be aware they are 4 ohm speakers and will present a heavier load on your receiver than normal speakers. However, they are so sensitive that doesn't look like it should ever be a problem unless your AVR turns out to be especially shoddy. The JBL 8320s should be better than my Hsu bookshelf recommends as well, especially at those prices. As for the sub though, I would not want the JBL sub though, it rolls off too high. You will be missing a lot of deep bass content with those. It is a more appropriate match for that system that the Hsu subs I recommended because the huge dynamic range is more in line with the JBL fronts, but A) you are very unlikely to get a flat response with just one sub, and B) very little deep bass at all. I would go for something like dual Hsu VTF15hs or dual SVS PC12 Plus subs, they won't get as loud as the JBL, but they will give you deep bass, a flatter response and thus a more accurate sound, and they will be much easier to setup because you probably won't have to do any EQing outside of room correction from Audyssey.

Hi ShadyJ, I figured in 2 of the 4641s into the price which comes in under my budget and I'll have plenty of room for a amp.

What is your opinion on the 2 4641 using 1 amp. Also, I have no idea how to set that up.
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Marantz Sr5008 , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Jbl 8320 Compact Cinema Surround Speaker For Digital Applications
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