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post #241 of 263 Old 07-19-2014, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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As everyone will be able to see I've started a new thread for people to post comments from the GTG.


Vancouver Summertime GTG Results


Please post all speaker impressions and pictures in the new thread, that is all...lol
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post #242 of 263 Old 07-19-2014, 09:29 AM
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On the ferry

Was $100! They keep raising fares. Dang Island life
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post #243 of 263 Old 07-19-2014, 07:04 PM
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I am sorry the Tempest did not work out well for you, but like Erich said, there are a couple hundred of them out there and I have received a lot of very positive feedback on them. There was another speaker shoot-out a few months ago and the Tempest was raved about for how it stacked up against some very expensive speakers. It was considered the best value for the money in the group.

I voiced the Tempest with a lot of vocal music using my Kairos and Continuums as references for midrange balance. The Kairos is especially flat through this region. I felt that the Tempest had an excellent midrange balance and I have commented before that I could have lived long-term with the Tempest as my speakers. I never noticed any excessive chestiness in the midrange.

I have attached my quasi-anechoic response of the Tempest. Although the response is bit tipped-down, there is no hole in the upper mid / lower treble region. (I was unaware at the time I took this measurement that my mic had gone out of calibration above 10khz. That has been corrected, but the reality is that the Tempest drops off a little by 20khz). The 98 dB rating is in the woofer range with the tweeter down a dB or two over its range.

So, what could be causing the dip that is shown? Well, since this is two-way speaker the measurement axis makes a big difference. My axis was directly in line with the throat of the waveguide. Since it is a large speaker, too close of a distance can cause issues (but 30" should be OK). Like all two-way speakers there will be lobing and nulls on some axis at different distances. The other possibility is that the tweeter is reversed in polarity from intended. The crossover is not symmetrical so a reversed polarity will cause a dip above the crossover region. I would try reversing the connection of the woofer or tweeter and checking again. Beyond this, I am not sure exactly what may be off. I hope it gets resolved.

Jeff B.
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post #244 of 263 Old 07-19-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Bagby View Post
I am sorry the Tempest did not work out well for you, but like Erich said, there are a couple hundred of them out there and I have received a lot of very positive feedback on them. There was another speaker shoot-out a few months ago and the Tempest was raved about for how it stacked up against some very expensive speakers. It was considered the best value for the money in the group.

I voiced the Tempest with a lot of vocal music using my Kairos and Continuums as references for midrange balance. The Kairos is especially flat through this region. I felt that the Tempest had an excellent midrange balance and I have commented before that I could have lived long-term with the Tempest as my speakers. I never noticed any excessive chestiness in the midrange.

I have attached my quasi-anechoic response of the Tempest. Although the response is bit tipped-down, there is no hole in the upper mid / lower treble region. (I was unaware at the time I took this measurement that my mic had gone out of calibration above 10khz. That has been corrected, but the reality is that the Tempest drops off a little by 20khz). The 98 dB rating is in the woofer range with the tweeter down a dB or two over its range.

So, what could be causing the dip that is shown? Well, since this is two-way speaker the measurement axis makes a big difference. My axis was directly in line with the throat of the waveguide. Since it is a large speaker, too close of a distance can cause issues (but 30" should be OK). Like all two-way speakers there will be lobing and nulls on some axis at different distances. The other possibility is that the tweeter is reversed in polarity from intended. The crossover is not symmetrical so a reversed polarity will cause a dip above the crossover region. I would try reversing the connection of the woofer or tweeter and checking again. Beyond this, I am not sure exactly what may be off. I hope it gets resolved.

Jeff B.
I'm not sure what the problem was. they were put in the same spot with same amp, same volume. premade crossovers, and inside sounded like it was done right. Ryan didn't feel it was the room. I think something is off. sorry I can't tell you more.
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post #245 of 263 Old 07-20-2014, 04:27 PM
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Here's my tempest measurement in a large L room with no room treatments and no EQ or anything



The mid bass seems a lot different, mines only like 10 dB differences compared to 20 dB. The high freqs looks pretty similar with the dip at 2k. This room has 75 hz, 150 hz and 300 hz nulls it appears.

This is jbrown's measurement:


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post #246 of 263 Old 07-20-2014, 05:38 PM
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I got a 75 hz null as well with my sub's.
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post #247 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
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Here's my tempest measurement in a large L room with no room treatments and no EQ or anything



The mid bass seems a lot different, mines only like 10 dB differences compared to 20 dB. The high freqs looks pretty similar with the dip at 2k. This room has 75 hz, 150 hz and 300 hz nulls it appears.

This is jbrown's measurement:

Full room measurements are a little tricky to interpret. The Tempest was designed with an intentional midbass emphasis, but not with an intentional dip at 2 kHz. The Zephyr on the other hand was designed for a flat bass response.

I went back to my original measurements and here was my measured response of the Tempest in the middle of my family room with the mic on the tweeter axis at about 1 meter. No adjustments have been made to this graph at all. (As I mentioned above though, my mic was off above 10kHz so in reality is tips down a little).

I pulled the drivers out of storage and hooked them up. I can get the dip at 2kHz as I move above the tweeter axis. People in general have been very happy with the speaker.

Right now, as I type this, I am sitting overlooking Lake Michigan with the sun behind me on a beautiful morning as the light glistens off the water.... so I'll put speakers aside for a while.

Jeff
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post #248 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Bagby View Post
Full room measurements are a little tricky to interpret. The Tempest was designed with an intentional midbass emphasis, but not with an intentional dip at 2 kHz. The Zephyr on the other hand was designed for a flat bass response.

I went back to my original measurements and here was my measured response of the Tempest in the middle of my family room with the mic on the tweeter axis at about 1 meter. No adjustments have been made to this graph at all. (As I mentioned above though, my mic was off above 10kHz so in reality is tips down a little).

I pulled the drivers out of storage and hooked them up. I can get the dip at 2kHz as I move above the tweeter axis. People in general have been very happy with the speaker.

Right now, as I type this, I am sitting overlooking Lake Michigan with the sun behind me on a beautiful morning as the light glistens off the water.... so I'll put speakers aside for a while.

Jeff
Yeah the 2 khz dip is probably mic placement as we both have one. Yes, I really like mine. I just thought the huge nulls at 100, 200, and 300 hz, and the peak at 520 hz, in jbrowns measurement were weird and could make the speaker sound "off".
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post #249 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
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Yeah the 2 khz dip is probably mic placement as we both have one. Yes, I really like mine. I just thought the huge nulls at 100, 200, and 300 hz, and the peak at 520 hz, in jbrowns measurement were weird and could make the speaker sound "off".
In those measurements everything from 500 Hz down is being controlled by the room.That's why we have to gate the impulse to get a true measurement. These are ungated.
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post #250 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 09:30 AM
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Just to confirm there wasn't a mistake in just one of the speakers, I did impedance sweeps on all three. I wanted to do more testing, but time just didn't allow. I brought my mic and it never left the case. I hoped to find a smoking gun but just couldn't. Then I listened and felt that the speaker was quite good and matched the posted FR and my similar experiences with 2-way 12" SEOS designs. Sounded very similar to one of the XO's I tried on my Celestion / SEOS 12 speaker, which also crossed near to the same point (mine was 1200hz, Jeff's is 1350hz).

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post #251 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff, I just thought it should be noted that no one ever said that the Tempest wasn't a nice speaker or that it sounded bad. It's basically the opposite, people thought it was good but just didn't do anything better then the 1099's or 228HT's. I know that I enjoyed them for the week and a half that I had them hooked up in my theater room leading up to the GTG. I just felt they weren't quite as good as the other two speakers.


I could easily have been very happy to own them if I had never heard the 1099's or owned the 228HT's and I can see why there's a lot of happy people that own the Tempest's now. They are excellent bang for the buck and just a great speaker overall.
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post #252 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 11:48 AM
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no one ever said that the Tempest was a nice speaker
Real nice Joe. That's some encouragement right there.

Haha. Just kidding. I'm sure you meant: wasn't.

I agree. Solid speaker. This is the kind of thing that if we all had Polks, Energy's, and Klipsch at this meet, the Tempests would have gobbled them up for an afternoon snack. Your 228HT is what, almost $4000 for the LCR
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post #253 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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LOL.... just fixed that...lol


Yeah, the 228HT's cost me $3600 after taxes, shipping and exchange rate. If I was buying them today, they would basically cost right around 5 grand!
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post #254 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 02:17 PM
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Real nice Joe. That's some encouragement right there.

Haha. Just kidding. I'm sure you meant: wasn't.

I agree. Solid speaker. This is the kind of thing that if we all had Polks, Energy's, and Klipsch at this meet, the Tempests would have gobbled them up for an afternoon snack. Your 228HT is what, almost $4000 for the LCR
I agree with that. Throw in b&w , def tech, kef, paradigm, and tannoy all under 2 k price point.
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post #255 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 02:32 PM
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I agree with that. Throw in b&w , def tech, kef, paradigm, and tannoy all under 2 k price point.
At higher SPL's it will beat any of those brands more expensive speakers too - they just can't keep up at high volumes, they're also not designed for it though so it's not really a fair comparison. I like my tempests a lot better than some 8k paradigms I heard - and I really like paradigm I have the Studio 10's and love them.
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post #256 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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At higher SPL's it will beat any of those brands more expensive speakers too - they just can't keep up at high volumes, they're also not designed for it though so it's not really a fair comparison. I like my tempests a lot better than some 8k paradigms I heard - and I really like paradigm I have the Studio 10's and love them.
Oh man, I had a chance to have studio 100's and matching cc-690 in my theater room for a week thanks to a demo from a friend. And I have to say that I wasn't crazy about them at all, well at least at loud listening levels. If the volume wasn't turned up loud they sounded not bad, but the minute it got loud I started to cringe.
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post #257 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 02:45 PM
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Oh man, I had a chance to have studio 100's and matching cc-690 in my theater room for a week thanks to a demo from a friend. And I have to say that I wasn't crazy about them at all, well at least at loud listening levels. If the volume wasn't turned up loud they sounded not bad, but the minute it got loud I started to cringe.
yes - my studio 10's with my sub sound way better than the Studio 100's I heard. Their low end bass just can't compete with an 18" sub. Yea my studio 10's have a specific SPL they hit and the distortion shoots up. I heard the signature line - it was just in a store so it wasn't necessarily all set-up perfect and stuff, but they just didn't impress me. I LOVE the B&W 802D2 I heard though, and the 803.
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post #258 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 06:16 PM
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I love the look of the 800 series b&w.
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post #259 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 08:08 PM
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I love the look of the 800 series b&w.
Yeah same, I want to build a look-alike some day haha, out of my skill range at the moment though.

I re-measured my tempests with the mic set up right, my last measurement was wrong I didn't have it set up right.

no eq:



after eq:

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post #260 of 263 Old 07-21-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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It's funny to note that you also have dips at 200&300hz and 800hz like what I measured, not as big of a dip but still roughly 10dB dips.
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post #261 of 263 Old 07-22-2014, 06:54 AM
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yeah - the dips are quite similar, I guess my L shaped room removed one of the dips, your has one at 100, 200, 300, 700, 2k, and mine is at 150, 300, 800, 2k. Do you have 8 ft ceilings? I have them in a large L shaped room right now with no room treatments. I will be moving them to a rectangular room with a few treatments later. I'm interested in seeing the difference in frequency responses. Miraculously my low freqs are perfectly flat 10 to 80 hz after eq'ing with just a single sealed UXL-18.
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post #262 of 263 Old 07-22-2014, 05:15 PM
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Yeah same, I want to build a look-alike some day haha, out of my skill range at the moment though.

I re-measured my tempests with the mic set up right, my last measurement was wrong I didn't have it set up right.

no eq:



after eq:

I think your raw measurement above is a pretty fair and accurate representative response for a Tempest room response. The Tempest has the tweeter set a bit lower than the woofer level intentionally, as opposed to the Zephyr with the Definimax woofer that had a very flat balance. Sometimes people want a speaker that isn't perfectly flat - I found I even preferred the Tempest with its balance.Thanks for the additional data.

Jeff
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post #263 of 263 Old 07-23-2014, 06:54 AM
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I think your raw measurement above is a pretty fair and accurate representative response for a Tempest room response. The Tempest has the tweeter set a bit lower than the woofer level intentionally, as opposed to the Zephyr with the Definimax woofer that had a very flat balance. Sometimes people want a speaker that isn't perfectly flat - I found I even preferred the Tempest with its balance.Thanks for the additional data.

Jeff
yes - the treble response of the tempests is exactly how I like my speakers to sound. I might even eq the treble down another dB or two if I want to crank it real loud. I don't sit super far away, only about 8 ft.
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