On-walls/in-walls full range vs 80hz and up - AVS Forum
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Putting together a 5.1 speaker system for a larger basement. I will do either on or in-wall speakers with a sub. My initial thought was to do a in wall with a 6.5 - 8' woofer and cross them over around 60-70hz. Thought having the LCR's handle some of the mid bass might make it sound better. I went into a local, well respected audio shop and the sales guy recommended two speakers that only drop to 80hz. What are everyone's thoughts here. Budget is around 3k for 3 in/on-walls, 2 in ceiling surrounds and a sub.

Here is what I have considered:
Klipsch 5800
Paradigm AMS LCR
Golden Ear Super Sat 50
Thanks
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:05 PM
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One 6-8" woofer won't handle bass better than a dedicated sub. I'd still recommend speakers like that but just plan to crossover at 80hz and place the sub in a location to give you the best bass response.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:10 PM - Thread Starter
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So why buy a speaker that can drop to 30-40hz but you are going to cross over at 80hz? Why not buy a speaker that is focused on giving you the best performance at and above your cross over frequency. I think I would sacrifice a little drop in bass for 10hz to keep the subwoofer from being localized.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:25 PM
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It is often recommended to have the speaker be able to play an octave below the crossover, so for 80hz crossover that means down to 40hz. When you start to push a speaker at loud volumes a single 6" woofer trying to play 30-40hz won't keep up. You will find any people on this forum with speakers that can play down to 30-40hz and they are crossover over at 80hz. There are many benefits in doing so with little downside.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:29 PM
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And I'll add if integrated properly you will not be able to localize a subwoofer crossed over at 80hz.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

It is often recommended to have the speaker be able to play an octave below the crossover, so for 80hz crossover that means down to 40hz. When you start to push a speaker at loud volumes a single 6" woofer trying to play 30-40hz won't keep up. You will find any people on this forum with speakers that can play down to 30-40hz and they are crossover over at 80hz. There are many benefits in doing so with little downside.
Mains capable of going lower than the actual crossover point is a good idea, but not by a full octave, as all that realizes is a larger speaker. With an 80Hz crossover a -3dB point of 60 to 70Hz is as low as you need, and does make it possible to realize better performance using drivers optimized for use in that range. For example:
http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-212ht/

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Old 03-29-2014, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the feedback. My mix is probably 60-70 TV/movies and 20-30% music. Am I crazy not wanting speakers that only go to 80hz? The guy at the speaker place recommended either the paradigm AMS LCR or the Golden Ear supersat 50. I feel like the AMS 350 might be better for my needs and wants. Would probably be sacrificing a little performance/sound quality at >80hz but could cross them over at 60-70 HZ and have less sub localization and, to me, better sound for music. Am I off in thinking this?
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

Thanks for all the feedback. My mix is probably 60-70 TV/movies and 20-30% music. Am I crazy not wanting speakers that only go to 80hz? The guy at the speaker place recommended either the paradigm AMS LCR or the Golden Ear supersat 50. I feel like the AMS 350 might be better for my needs and wants. Would probably be sacrificing a little performance/sound quality at >80hz but could cross them over at 60-70 HZ and have less sub localization and, to me, better sound for music. Am I off in thinking this?
The lower you crossover the better the result in general, until you go so low that the mains aren't able to reach the same levels that the sub can.

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Old 03-29-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I have settled on the paradigm AMS 350.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

So why buy a speaker that can drop to 30-40hz but you are going to cross over at 80hz? Why not buy a speaker that is focused on giving you the best performance at and above your cross over frequency. I think I would sacrifice a little drop in bass for 10hz to keep the subwoofer from being localized.

Yes, home theater AV receivers have bass management processing that crosses over actively the small speakers at 80HZ, or 100HZ and lets the sub play below that to help control distortion and drastic ranging standing waves in the room. If a system did not have a sub, then the advantage of having two refrigerator -sized, main floor standing speakers is when you play a hi-res audio source in 2-channel (Direct Mode) with no LFE, (sub), and they were playing just down to 80Hz, it would sound a little light.

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