Bowers and Wilkins New 600 Series Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 112 Old 04-25-2014, 09:43 PM
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I happen to audition the 683 S2 and and CM8 yesterday powered by an Onkyo receiver while waiting for my HTM61 S2. I noticed that the mids and highs for the CM8 was more "refined", I don't have the exact words.

I prefer the 683s for movies and the CM8s for music.
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post #62 of 112 Old 04-25-2014, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post


Still deciding between the CM and the 600 line but leaning toward the 600 line.

Have you noticed the grilles of the 600 S2s are more flexible/soft vs the S1s? I prefer the grille on the S1s for their design on stability.
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post #63 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abatsky View Post

I happen to audition the 683 S2 and and CM8 yesterday powered by an Onkyo receiver while waiting for my HTM61 S2. I noticed that the mids and highs for the CM8 was more "refined", I don't have the exact words.

I prefer the 683s for movies and the CM8s for music.

I thought the cm range was clearly a step up from the original 600 s1 series and I still think that's the case with s2's, not as much of difference perhaps but still there. I'm not sure of the pricing in the states but where I live I can get the cm8's and cm1's for approximately the same price as the 683 s2 and 685 s2 respectively, the cm's don't have as much bass because they're smaller but are overall better sounding in my opinion, they would be my choice.
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post #64 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 05:42 AM
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one more thing i noticed was the new S2's Grille was not magnetic. it made it difficult to take on and off. the CM was very easy to remove and replace.
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post #65 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 05:48 AM
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+1

The reason I prefer the 600s for movie is I feel the 683s has more bass to offer vs the CM8s. Also, they are taller which is better for bigger rooms IMHO.
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post #66 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post

one more thing i noticed was the new S2's Grille was not magnetic. it made it difficult to take on and off. the CM was very easy to remove and replace.

Even the S1s are not magnetic. The advantage of having this feature is you can remove the grilles without the visible holes.
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post #67 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 06:24 AM
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I only got to see the CM9 vs 863S2 and 864S2
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post #68 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post

I'm interested in knowing what people think of the 683 vs the CM8. Anyone compare the two?
The 683's are good for their price but definitely not as good as the more expensive CM8's. The CM's have a more refined sound with better detail across the entire range, but especially in the mids and highs where the differences are most apparent. I spent about 45 minutes in the Magnolia/Best Buy sound room comparing the new 600 series speakers to the CM line. I wanted to love the more affordable 600's, I really did....but in the end it was no contest. One of these days I'll get to hear the CM10's somewhere.
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post #69 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by abatsky View Post

Even the S1s are not magnetic. The advantage of having this feature is you can remove the grilles without the visible holes.
I keep mines on so nobody don't polk there fingers on the tweeter.
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post #70 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DonaldFagen View Post

The 683's are good for their price but definitely not as good as the more expensive CM8's. The CM's have a more refined sound with better detail across the entire range, but especially in the mids and highs where the differences are most apparent. I spent about 45 minutes in the Magnolia/Best Buy sound room comparing the new 600 series speakers to the CM line. I wanted to love the more affordable 600's, I really did....but in the end it was no contest. One of these days I'll get to hear the CM10's somewhere.
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post #71 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DonaldFagen View Post

The 683's are good for their price but definitely not as good as the more expensive CM8's. The CM's have a more refined sound with better detail across the entire range, but especially in the mids and highs where the differences are most apparent. I spent about 45 minutes in the Magnolia/Best Buy sound room comparing the new 600 series speakers to the CM line. I wanted to love the more affordable 600's, I really did....but in the end it was no contest. One of these days I'll get to hear the CM10's somewhere.

you say 683S2 not as good as even the CM8?
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post #72 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post

you say 683S2 not as good as even the CM8?
I believe that's what I said! wink.gif
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post #73 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your feedback! Unfortunately, that X-4000 is WAY out of my budget (which i have already gone over), actually, the price of the X-4000 is almost my entire budget.....

I know the X-1000 is like an "entry level" receiver, but this is my first legit system, and the guy at Best Buy suggested this over the Sony that i went in there planning to purchase.

Do u think i will have some power issues with the X-1000?
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Yes sir

The X-1000 is 175 WPC - Chise were you saying it would have power issues?

I've been thinking of a Marantz SR-6008 or SR-7008 as my receiver. Those only say they are 110 WPC & 125 WPC respectively. Anyone, would one of the high end Marantz really not be able to power these? Or are these wattage ratings not apples to apples?

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post #74 of 112 Old 04-26-2014, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post


The X-1000 is 175 WPC - Chise were you saying it would have power issues?

I've been thinking of a Marantz SR-6008 or SR-7008 as my receiver. Those only say they are 110 WPC & 125 WPC respectively. Anyone, would one of the high end Marantz really not be able to power these? Or are these wattage ratings not apples to apples?

Denon may say that the X-1000 is 175 WPC, but that's a MAX output level, probably under specific conditions and only for milliseconds. It's of dubious worth.

The power ratings of AVRs are probably not apples to apples, as you say. There is a lot of exaggerating going on in the ratings these days.

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post #75 of 112 Old 04-27-2014, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting how the comparisons are starting between the 600 series and the CM series. Before we know it we'll be talking about 800 series speakers on here, just like the B&W owner's thread. rolleyes.gif

I would be completely surprised if the CM series line didn't sound better than the 600 series! S1 or the new S2. I mean, they have been engineered to be the next line up.

I suppose a fair comparison between floorstanding 600s and bookshelf CM series might be an interesting comparison point as the prices start to converge some in that area - i.e. to buy a bookshelf CM versus a floorstanding 600 series. Seems to be the only benefits (as stated earlier) of 600 series would be bass output and maybe height? Clarity would go to the higher end series. I could be wrong. But then doesn't it really get into a bookshelf vs. floorstanders discussion?

Just keep in mind I am hoping to keep the thread focused on the 600 series - comparisons are great and all - just don't start comparing the CM series speakers to each other wink.gif I suppose honest comparison of CM to 600 series is useful to see if upping your budget is worth it...

BTW, I'm in school right now. No time to work on my home theater. Best I can do is jump on here and live vicariously. Three weeks until class is done...

I tried hard again to find some new reviews. I think there were some in other languages. Otherwise no luck. But I did find these videos of some of the 600 S2 speakers. They have some nice close-ups. Music's a little weird IMHO.

683 S2
684 S2
HTM61 S2
685 S2
686 S2

This video shows the 684 S1 and 684 S2 next to each other. Interesting to see the differences.

684 S1 and 684 S2 next to each other

The 684 S2 is definitely smaller. Kind of a cool way to get a floorstander with a very low profile.


Here's a 683 S2 and 684 S2 together:

684 S2 and 683 S2 side by side

Those 684s sure are small!

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post #76 of 112 Old 04-27-2014, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post


The X-1000 is 175 WPC - Chise were you saying it would have power issues?

I've been thinking of a Marantz SR-6008 or SR-7008 as my receiver. Those only say they are 110 WPC & 125 WPC respectively. Anyone, would one of the high end Marantz really not be able to power these? Or are these wattage ratings not apples to apples?
Much better X-1000 they are exaggerating their power rating, that receiver only good for small and bookshelves speakers.
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post #77 of 112 Old 04-27-2014, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post

Interesting how the comparisons are starting between the 600 series and the CM series. Before we know it we'll be talking about 800 series speakers on here, just like the B&W owner's thread. rolleyes.gif

I would be completely surprised if the CM series line didn't sound better than the 600 series! S1 or the new S2. I mean, they have been engineered to be the next line up.

I suppose a fair comparison between floorstanding 600s and bookshelf CM series might be an interesting comparison point as the prices start to converge some in that area - i.e. to buy a bookshelf CM versus a floorstanding 600 series. Seems to be the only benefits (as stated earlier) of 600 series would be bass output and maybe height? Clarity would go to the higher end series. I could be wrong. But then doesn't it really get into a bookshelf vs. floorstanders discussion?

Just keep in mind I am hoping to keep the thread focused on the 600 series - comparisons are great and all - just don't start comparing the CM series speakers to each other wink.gif I suppose honest comparison of CM to 600 series is useful to see if upping your budget is worth it...

BTW, I'm in school right now. No time to work on my home theater. Best I can do is jump on here and live vicariously. Three weeks until class is done...

I tried hard again to find some new reviews. I think there were some in other languages. Otherwise no luck. But I did find these videos of some of the 600 S2 speakers. They have some nice close-ups. Music's a little weird IMHO.

683 S2
684 S2
HTM61 S2
685 S2
686 S2

This video shows the 684 S1 and 684 S2 next to each other. Interesting to see the differences.

684 S1 and 684 S2 next to each other
The 684 S2 is definitely smaller. Kind of a cool way to get a floorstander with a very low profile.


Here's a 683 S2 and 684 S2 together:

684 S2 and 683 S2 side by side

Those 684s sure are small!

Fair point but some of us, at least myself anyway, thought the new 600 series s2's may match or even surpass the cm range in overall sound quality but that wasn't to be, not for me anyway.
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post #78 of 112 Old 04-27-2014, 07:04 AM
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Fair point but some of us, at least myself anyway, thought the new 600 series s2's may match or even surpass the cm range in overall sound quality but that wasn't to be, not for me anyway.

Aren't the 600 series suppose to use tweeter technology taken from Bowers & Wilkins award-winning CM10 speaker, which should result in treble performance so pure and precise it will take your breath away and it's supposed to be like the most notable feature of the new series? I guess that tweeter didn't really help much, eh?

Excerpts from the official website.
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post #79 of 112 Old 04-27-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Aren't the 600 series suppose to use tweeter technology taken from Bowers & Wilkins award-winning CM10 speaker, which should result in treble performance so pure and precise it will take your breath away and it's supposed to be like the most notable feature of the new series? I guess that tweeter didn't really help much, eh?

Excerpts from the official website.

I was wondering the same thing too. There is supposed to be all this technology trickle down... But perhaps it has to do with the whole package. Maybe the tweeter's in a nicer enclosure in the CM10 that reduced this or that resonance. The cabinets are more rigid, the crossovers are better tuned or something. In the end - it is the whole speaker that matters. And I sometimes wonder if they don't borrow technology from upper level series in order to keep down manufacturing costs - I mean once you've learned to make a tweeter well and for a fairly low cost, why have another line making another tweeter for the 600 series - when you can actually save on manufacturing process control costs and machining costs by feeding both lines?

At the same time, perhaps they can't take the same care with cabinet costs, or crossover, or the tweeter enclosure, or have the better workers work that line - who knows, maybe the 600 series manufacturing line is where they train the new guys.

The marketing fluff. Of course they are going to have it, they'd be stupid not to, especially being a company driven by reputation.

The hope of this thread was to review them for what they are- as a whole speaker package, right? Some of the comments I have read on other forums do say there is an improvement in the high range, so that's nice.
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post #80 of 112 Old 04-28-2014, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielrg View Post

I was wondering the same thing too. There is supposed to be all this technology trickle down... But perhaps it has to do with the whole package. Maybe the tweeter's in a nicer enclosure in the CM10 that reduced this or that resonance. The cabinets are more rigid, the crossovers are better tuned or something. In the end - it is the whole speaker that matters. And I sometimes wonder if they don't borrow technology from upper level series in order to keep down manufacturing costs - I mean once you've learned to make a tweeter well and for a fairly low cost, why have another line making another tweeter for the 600 series - when you can actually save on manufacturing process control costs and machining costs by feeding both lines?

At the same time, perhaps they can't take the same care with cabinet costs, or crossover, or the tweeter enclosure, or have the better workers work that line - who knows, maybe the 600 series manufacturing line is where they train the new guys.

The marketing fluff. Of course they are going to have it, they'd be stupid not to, especially being a company driven by reputation.

The hope of this thread was to review them for what they are- as a whole speaker package, right? Some of the comments I have read on other forums do say there is an improvement in the high range, so that's nice.
The S2 sound better when using seperates
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post #81 of 112 Old 04-29-2014, 10:16 AM
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i found a favorable review of the 684 S2 if anyone is interested in reading

http://andreweverard.com/2014/04/17/review-bowers-wilkins-684-s2-loudspeakers/
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post #82 of 112 Old 04-30-2014, 03:42 AM
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Hey guys,

Looking at pairing the 683 s2's with an Anthem MRX 710.

I have a largeish room (6mx4mx2.7m) that is next to an open kitchen area of similar width (~5m))

Do you think this Amp and Speaker combo will work? I'll be adding a centre, sub and surrounds later. Will be used for 50/50 music and movies, I also like to entertain so it would be good if this combo could fill the entire room (including the open kitchen area). The white version of the 683s look amazing smile.gif

Thanks
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post #83 of 112 Old 04-30-2014, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by skinner84 View Post

Hey guys,

Looking at pairing the 683 s2's with an Anthem MRX 710.

I have a largeish room (6mx4mx2.7m) that is next to an open kitchen area of similar width (~5m))

Do you think this Amp and Speaker combo will work? I'll be adding a centre, cub and surrounds later. Will be used for 50/50 music and movies, I also like to entertain so it would be good if this combo could fill the entire room (including the open kitchen area). The white version of the 683s look amazing smile.gif

Thanks
Welcome to AVS to me that's nice combo are you going with 2CH or 5CH later.
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post #84 of 112 Old 04-30-2014, 06:21 AM
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Welcome to AVS to me that's nice combo are you going with 2CH or 5CH later.

Will end up with a 5.1 set up eventually. Just trying to start with a solid base to add to later on.
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post #85 of 112 Old 04-30-2014, 06:36 AM
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Will end up with a 5.1 set up eventually. Just trying to start with a solid base to add to later on.
You have the right receiver.
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post #86 of 112 Old 05-03-2014, 09:25 AM
 
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I had an opportunity last week to audition the 683 S2s connected to a Denon AVR-X4000. The source was some $500 Denon Disc player -- don't have specifics on it.

My initial reaction was that I wasn't impressed. I currently have the 685 S1 in a 2 channel setup. Was connected to an AVR-1909 but replaced it with the X4000. The X4000 is a very nice receiver and has made my 685s sound better -- more detailed, I feel I can hear "more" of whatever is playing then I could before -- more background sounds, more ephemeral noises. Setup was super easy -- way easier than the AVR-1909 -- goodness... that required going into some DOS looking interface to navigate the controls and have no onscreen info when playing sources. The X4000 has a beautiful graphical interface and does over lays on top of the current source so you can make tweaks on the fly. The 1909 did this kind of "reboot" after making changes.

Back to the 683 S2s -- they look very nice in person. Somewhat understated, not over the top or "furniture" worthy of the CM (or especially the 800 series). They still look nice in their own utilitarian way. Sound was an interesting cat -- on the one hand I felt the high end was where it really shined. But it was the low end that was really lacking. Now, keep in mind the X4000 was set to direct mode and had no correction or EQ settings tweaked to speak of. AND my source was a CD I had burned from songs purchased on iTunes. Not exactly the best representation. I played the same source material on my computer that is connect via a Focusrite 2i2 DAC and played on my M-Audio BX5 D2s and in my Genesis with the Lexicon sound system. It sounded best on the 683s (which I would have hoped to be the case). The low end was quieter than I've heard on my 685s so I know that something was going on... I'm curious how much was the electronics not being setup other than being pulled out of the box and connected.

The mid range was OK -- but again, I felt that my source CD, the midrange only sounded OK on my M-Audios and the Lexicon system. So I think there was something odd going on there. Now, what I will say is that the sound stage was outstanding! I've only heard one other system sound better for presenting a large and wide sound stage and that would be the Kef Blades connected to Naime electronics -- a $120K stereo setup. No thanks...

The phantom center was so present and so real, I was shocked. I've been living without a Center Channel for years and so I'm acutely aware of the need for a system that can do this right, and the 683s were incredible.

I played some Nirvana, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Trance Control, Metallica, Staind, Muse, some live tracks, some studio tracks, and the one odd ball Trace Control song done all electronically. These were all tracks that I was very familiar with. One thing that was consistent across them all was that they were very clean sounding. Metallica worked really well with the quick transient sounds of the drums. Phil and Peter sounded outstanding. The dynamic range on their songs sounded like they were designed for this setup.

I'm hoping that if I did bring them home that using the Audessy setup will get them to sound their best and really floor me. I listed to the 800s right after this and I hate to say it but wasn't stunned by how good they sound. I'm finding that speakers have a limitation. They will never sound as good as the real thing, but they make up for it by giving you an intimate and personal experience that that real thing would never allow for and that in my mind makes listening to whatever it is on a good setup the preferred method.

If my memory serves me, I recall being much less impressed with the 683 S1s and that was when I was beginning my audio journey. I've come a long way since then in both my understanding and what I've had a chance to audition and considering that I'm probably harder to impress now, I'm more impressed with the new ones that I was back then with the old ones. I've got to image that says something.
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post #87 of 112 Old 05-03-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Beglinger View Post

I had an opportunity last week to audition the 683 S2s connected to a Denon AVR-X4000. The source was some $500 Denon Disc player -- don't have specifics on it.

My initial reaction was that I wasn't impressed. I currently have the 685 S1 in a 2 channel setup. Was connected to an AVR-1909 but replaced it with the X4000. The X4000 is a very nice receiver and has made my 685s sound better -- more detailed, I feel I can hear "more" of whatever is playing then I could before -- more background sounds, more ephemeral noises. Setup was super easy -- way easier than the AVR-1909 -- goodness... that required going into some DOS looking interface to navigate the controls and have no onscreen info when playing sources. The X4000 has a beautiful graphical interface and does over lays on top of the current source so you can make tweaks on the fly. The 1909 did this kind of "reboot" after making changes.

Back to the 683 S2s -- they look very nice in person. Somewhat understated, not over the top or "furniture" worthy of the CM (or especially the 800 series). They still look nice in their own utilitarian way. Sound was an interesting cat -- on the one hand I felt the high end was where it really shined. But it was the low end that was really lacking. Now, keep in mind the X4000 was set to direct mode and had no correction or EQ settings tweaked to speak of. AND my source was a CD I had burned from songs purchased on iTunes. Not exactly the best representation. I played the same source material on my computer that is connect via a Focusrite 2i2 DAC and played on my M-Audio BX5 D2s and in my Genesis with the Lexicon sound system. It sounded best on the 683s (which I would have hoped to be the case). The low end was quieter than I've heard on my 685s so I know that something was going on... I'm curious how much was the electronics not being setup other than being pulled out of the box and connected.

The mid range was OK -- but again, I felt that my source CD, the midrange only sounded OK on my M-Audios and the Lexicon system. So I think there was something odd going on there. Now, what I will say is that the sound stage was outstanding! I've only heard one other system sound better for presenting a large and wide sound stage and that would be the Kef Blades connected to Naime electronics -- a $120K stereo setup. No thanks...

The phantom center was so present and so real, I was shocked. I've been living without a Center Channel for years and so I'm acutely aware of the need for a system that can do this right, and the 683s were incredible.

I played some Nirvana, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Trance Control, Metallica, Staind, Muse, some live tracks, some studio tracks, and the one odd ball Trace Control song done all electronically. These were all tracks that I was very familiar with. One thing that was consistent across them all was that they were very clean sounding. Metallica worked really well with the quick transient sounds of the drums. Phil and Peter sounded outstanding. The dynamic range on their songs sounded like they were designed for this setup.

I'm hoping that if I did bring them home that using the Audessy setup will get them to sound their best and really floor me. I listed to the 800s right after this and I hate to say it but wasn't stunned by how good they sound. I'm finding that speakers have a limitation. They will never sound as good as the real thing, but they make up for it by giving you an intimate and personal experience that that real thing would never allow for and that in my mind makes listening to whatever it is on a good setup the preferred method.

If my memory serves me, I recall being much less impressed with the 683 S1s and that was when I was beginning my audio journey. I've come a long way since then in both my understanding and what I've had a chance to audition and considering that I'm probably harder to impress now, I'm more impressed with the new ones that I was back then with the old ones. I've got to image that says something.
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post #88 of 112 Old 05-03-2014, 08:59 PM
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found another in depth review of the new 600's

http://www.hdfever.fr/2014/04/30/test-bw-serie-600-s2/

its in french but Chrome Translate works well
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post #89 of 112 Old 05-03-2014, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Beglinger View Post

I had an opportunity last week to audition the 683 S2s connected to a Denon AVR-X4000. The source was some $500 Denon Disc player -- don't have specifics on it.

--- snip ---

Thanks for your impressions! I liked how you shared relative to your other experiences, helps put things in perspective. Did the speakers have much time on them? Some say that it takes time to break in the low end. But I have read in some other places that these have a little less oomph in the low range. I would think a nice sub would be a good addition to this line.

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post #90 of 112 Old 05-08-2014, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a really brief review (more a new item) on the 683 S2 floorstanders from Audio-T:

600 S2 Series Arrives at Audio-T

I don't necessarily trust it - it's more of a news article, and they sell speakers, so I can't imagine they are very independent...

Electrical engineer by education. Currently a system engineer. I like home automation, theaters, and blinking lights.
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"The Escape Pod" - My First Theater Build
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