ORB Speakers buying VERY SOON, Need Sub Woofer Advice Please!!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 93 Old 04-04-2014, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guys, it's April 5th 2014 and I Just had the President of ORB call me and talk for almost 1 hour, great guy. I have a media Room already with a 10 foot screen, blah, blah, blah.

I am Looking SERIOUSLY (like might buy these Monday, it's Friday Night now) for my Living Room. Currently it has a 42" Vizio in the corner in a built in. We bought a Samsung 65" 3D HDTV at Costco (7050 model) to Hang above the Fireplace in our Living Room and I have a Mantle above my Fireplace and below my SOON TO BE HUNG TV, so I can out my center channel there below the TV.

My room is already wired for 5.1, but never used it and each of the wires are hidden behind a Wall Plate / Junction Box. Guess What? ORB makes Junction Box Mounts, so install is going to be CLEAN and easy! Bought a Denon AVR-X2000 3D Receiver that I am pairing with my Samsung 3D TV and speakers, etc.

OK I am 95% sure I am going to Pull the trigger on the ORB Mod2X Home Theater Speaker System, so That just means I have 2 Balls (Speakers.......LOL) per each surround speaker. I am ALSO Upgrading the Center Channel to a Mod4X (4 Balls) and also going to Upgrade the Super 8 Sub to the Uber 10 Sub. The Sub is my Biggest Question which I will ask shortly!

So I am getting this Mod 2X for all surround speakers and a QUAD for the Center and their Uber 10" Sub Woofer:

2 Left Front
2 Right Front
2 Back Right Rear
2 Back Left Rear
4 Center Channel Speakers
1 10" Uber Sub

I am getting these because since I already have junction boxes covered by face plates, the Install of these will be super easy, and clean, and will go well with the new Samsung 65" 3D TV! Again, I have a Media Room Upstairs, so this sould be a HUGE Upgrade from my prior set up of a 42" Vizio TV in the corner in a built in Cabinet. LOL


Here is my MAIN QUESTION and please guys help me. I HOPE someone reads this soon because I want to pull the trigger Monday. It's the SUB!!!!

I'm OK with the speakers, they are going to be great for my set up, not AMAZING, but for what they are (a little metal ball), and if you set your expectations accurately, and expect to hear a great sounding 3" good looking and compact speaker solution, I am sure you will be satisfied.



I am Upgrading the Sub to the Uber 10" and I am sure it is a decent upgrade, BUT, if another SUB will WORK with these ORB Speakers, I might want to supplement a NON ORB Sub in the equation. I'm not an audiophile and don't understand the technical specs of the subs and how they work with the other speakers, etc.

My Question is Should I get another sub? If so, and I think I want to get another sub, WHAT SUB will work with this set up?

I was looking at an SVS PB1000 or SVS PB2000 or SB1000 or SB2000 (Not sure if I want ported or Non with my ORB set up?) Also to remind you, I have a Denon AVR-X2000 Receiver.

Also was looking at a Hsu VTF-2 MK4 subwoofer or even a VTF-3 MK4 Subwoofer?


Again, I am not sure if I can Add a LARGE Sub with these smaller speakers? What Size can I and SHOULD I Get please?????


Or, would you guys just stay with the Uber 10 from ORB???


Thanks

The Bandit...................
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post #2 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 06:09 AM
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I would not go with the Uber 10 as the SVS PB-1000 has it beat. If you can spend more, the PB-2000, HSU VTF-3 MK4, and PSA XV15 are great choices. How big is the room?
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post #3 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAxeSlinger View Post

Hey Guys, it's April 5th 2014 and I Just had the President of ORB call me and talk for almost 1 hour, great guy. I have a media Room already with a 10 foot screen, blah, blah, blah.

I am Looking SERIOUSLY (like might buy these Monday, it's Friday Night now) for my Living Room. Currently it has a 42" Vizio in the corner in a built in. We bought a Samsung 65" 3D HDTV at Costco (7050 model) to Hang above the Fireplace in our Living Room and I have a Mantle above my Fireplace and below my SOON TO BE HUNG TV, so I can out my center channel there below the TV.

My room is already wired for 5.1, but never used it and each of the wires are hidden behind a Wall Plate / Junction Box. Guess What? ORB makes Junction Box Mounts, so install is going to be CLEAN and easy! Bought a Denon AVR-X2000 3D Receiver that I am pairing with my Samsung 3D TV and speakers, etc.

OK I am 95% sure I am going to Pull the trigger on the ORB Mod2X Home Theater Speaker System, so That just means I have 2 Balls (Speakers.......LOL) per each surround speaker. I am ALSO Upgrading the Center Channel to a Mod4X (4 Balls) and also going to Upgrade the Super 8 Sub to the Uber 10 Sub. The Sub is my Biggest Question which I will ask shortly!

So I am getting this Mod 2X for all surround speakers and a QUAD for the Center and their Uber 10" Sub Woofer:

2 Left Front
2 Right Front
2 Back Right Rear
2 Back Left Rear
4 Center Channel Speakers
1 10" Uber Sub

I am getting these because since I already have junction boxes covered by face plates, the Install of these will be super easy, and clean, and will go well with the new Samsung 65" 3D TV! Again, I have a Media Room Upstairs, so this sould be a HUGE Upgrade from my prior set up of a 42" Vizio TV in the corner in a built in Cabinet. LOL


Here is my MAIN QUESTION and please guys help me. I HOPE someone reads this soon because I want to pull the trigger Monday. It's the SUB!!!!

I'm OK with the speakers, they are going to be great for my set up, not AMAZING, but for what they are (a little metal ball), and if you set your expectations accurately, and expect to hear a great sounding 3" good looking and compact speaker solution, I am sure you will be satisfied.



I am Upgrading the Sub to the Uber 10" and I am sure it is a decent upgrade, BUT, if another SUB will WORK with these ORB Speakers, I might want to supplement a NON ORB Sub in the equation. I'm not an audiophile and don't understand the technical specs of the subs and how they work with the other speakers, etc.

My Question is Should I get another sub? If so, and I think I want to get another sub, WHAT SUB will work with this set up?

I was looking at an SVS PB1000 or SVS PB2000 or SB1000 or SB2000 (Not sure if I want ported or Non with my ORB set up?) Also to remind you, I have a Denon AVR-X2000 Receiver.

Also was looking at a Hsu VTF-2 MK4 subwoofer or even a VTF-3 MK4 Subwoofer?


Again, I am not sure if I can Add a LARGE Sub with these smaller speakers? What Size can I and SHOULD I Get please?????


Or, would you guys just stay with the Uber 10 from ORB???


Thanks

The Bandit...................

Why are you so set on the Orb speakers?

Lots of better sounding options out there.
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post #4 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 07:35 AM
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yeah I'd rather buy a couple of sets of these, if speaker is a problem

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.richersounds.com%2Fproduct%2Fstandmount-speakers%2Fwharfedale%2Fdiamond-9.0%2Fwhar-9.0-blk&ei=ehRAU_-eFueR7Aag2IHAAg&usg=AFQjCNHYC_CqfQr_kQPahxn-X3euRwiXww&sig2=WVdnk7krzDoEfhhweijkAQ&bvm=bv.64125504,d.ZWU

They were £40 a pair

Kinda daft buying a monster sub with sats, yes you need a good sub, but kinda daft..

$500 for a stereo pair of Mod2x? what the hell! rolleyes.gif

These or Orb2 hmm

http://www.amazon.com/NHT-Classic-Bookshelf-Loudspeaker-Piano-Gloss/dp/B000FKLIP6/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1396708860&sr=8-7&keywords=nht+speaker

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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post #5 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Family Room is large and opens to a kitchen. Ceilings are 20 feet. I have a media room 20x17 with a projector and 10 foot screen. So, I don't need a main movie room.

I'm at Disney on Ice now in Dallas, LOL. I will post a pic of the room, that will help.
I was looking at orbs because they are an easy install and non-obtrusive. Adding 65" 3D TV above fireplace and a receiver, 5.1, and a sub. Now we but have a 42" in the corner in a built in.

Also looking at ORB because my 5.1 pre-wires home has the speaker wires behind. Plastic plate that hides the junction box. ORB has Junction box mounts, so it just replaces the EXISTING wall plate and will make install, Easy, Clean, and Neat!

Wanted a good sounding experience in the living room without putting huge ass speakers a over my living room. Again have a media room for that.

Let me get back to show and I'll post later and in muse a picture of the room.
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post #6 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 10:40 AM
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How are Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 big ass speakers? They're tiny.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #7 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Pics. The front left and right speakers are in the alcoves 10-12 feet up. TV above FP and quad Orb Center on mantle.

2 surround sounds behind me on wall up 10 feet.


546BD8E4-B6BB-4140-9E04-86F527BCA737_zpslc8tnkp3.png

D4903843-BBA3-470A-8805-F14C23498C03_zps7tf4x4r5.png

0035937E-CD65-4E6C-B024-5CA019C435EA_zpscixsge9q.png

319495A2-3B71-4AAB-B593-10B50D834BA4_zpsq83effrh.png
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post #8 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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319495A2-3B71-4AAB-B593-10B50D834BA4_zpsq83effrh.png

0035937E-CD65-4E6C-B024-5CA019C435EA_zpscixsge9q.png

D4903843-BBA3-470A-8805-F14C23498C03_zps7tf4x4r5.png


Front L&R Speakers are located on the far Left and Right Wall 12 or so feet in the air. Look at pictures and you'll see the white plates on the wall that hide the speaker wires. Also this is what the ORB mounts will replace which will be so easy!!!!!

The rear left and right are behind my left and right shoulder up 10 feet hight if I was sitting on the couch.

The TV will to above Fireplace where Mirror currently hangs and the Quad ORB Center sits below TV on Mantle.

The receiver will be in the car right bottom cabinet.

On these pics should help.
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post #9 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:21 PM
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Your room is way too large for Orb Speakers. Look towards Bookshelf speakers at least
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post #10 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Your room is way too large for Orb Speakers. Look towards Bookshelf speakers at least

Agreed. Orbs are a bad choice for that size room. Might not sound a lot better than in-ceiling mall store speakers (LOL).

NHT makes some white speakers that blend a little better than black boxes on your walls:
http://www.nhthifi.com/Bookshelf-Speakers
http://www.nhthifi.com/Home-Theater-On-Wall-Speakers

Your center channel goes with your TV. Putting it over on your mantle will make it sound like the dialogue is coming from the mantle.

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post #11 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:28 PM
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If you are looking for speakers that are simply better than your TV speakers, the Orbs will do that. However that are badly underpowered for that room for anything other than modest listening levels. As for subwoofers, volumetrically that looks like a big room, so you will need a good sub to pressurize it. The problem is, most of the subs you are thinking about are far more capable than those speakers. You will end up with a very uneven system, heavy on the bass and light on treble. One more thing, the soundstage for the intended speaker placement will make a lot more sense if the TV was mounted where that mirror is.
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post #12 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:37 PM
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This is what you get for a overpriced speakers ...








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post #13 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:51 PM
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Keep in mind, that Orb speakers are assembled in the USA by skilled workmen.

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post #14 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:55 PM
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I would like to do a nice room with barely visible ORB speakers and good subs one day. It would be cool. Better than some ugly box speakers if that is the look you are after. Don't let opinionated people here put you off.

Yes any one of those SVS subs would be a great addition as well.
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post #15 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Your room is way too large for Orb Speakers. Look towards Bookshelf speakers at least

Room size doesn't matter. It's the listening distance from the speakers that matter. Two 3" drivers operating with a high enough crossover will be adequate.
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post #16 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 01:22 PM
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Kiwi a speaker that probably cost less than $10 to make to sell for over $100 dollars?

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post #17 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Kiwi a speaker that probably cost less than $10 to make to sell for over $100 dollars?

So? What's that got to do with anything...???
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post #18 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 01:33 PM
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Well if he wants the speakers no problem is his money but he is giving a large amount of money to this company not to the speakers.

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post #19 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 01:38 PM
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Yup.

a) Huge room, sat speakers won't fill that room up unless he just wants background levels, or he values cosmetics over sound quality.
b) Getting a huge sub with tiny speakers is not a good match
c) Over priced, £500 for stereo pair? Way too much, lots of other brands with more affordable and in fact larger cabs


Really looking at standmounts at the minimum.

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post #20 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:04 PM
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Lol Chu, funny picture, but not very sporting. How the hell did they allow a pic with one of their workers wearing a shirt that has 'exploited' written on it? I did a search for that pic, and it looks like it comes from a NY Times article about tax breaks for companies that hire disadvantaged workers. Give Orb credit, at least they do assembly in the USA.
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post #21 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Well if he wants the speakers no problem is his money but he is giving a large amount of money to this company not to the speakers.

You realise that a $1000 commercial speaker may only have $50 worth of drivers in it, do you?
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post #22 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

Yup.

a) Huge room, sat speakers won't fill that room up unless he just wants background levels, or he values cosmetics over sound quality.
b) Getting a huge sub with tiny speakers is not a good match
c) Over priced, £500 for stereo pair? Way too much, lots of other brands with more affordable and in fact larger cabs


Really looking at standmounts at the minimum.

I think such opinions are based more on what people are just accustomed to more than anything.

The room size doesn't matter. The distance from the speaker to the listening position matters.

If it is a large room then large subs could be beneficial. You would need to use a higher crossover like 120 or 150 or even 200hz but they can still be made to blend in nicely.

The ORB speakers will have a few advantages over conventional 2-way box speakers. No crossover is an a advantage. No baffle creating baffle bounce and edge diffraction is an a advantage. (It's why B&W put their midrange driver and tweeter on top of the box in a sphear)

The two 3" drivers operating together increase SPL than just one driver by itself. It's the same principle as a MTM speaker.

When you take a full range driver and high pass filter it with the lower frequencies going to subs then it becomes what is referred to as a medium range driver.

Lots of interesting and popular projects going on in here with small full range drivers... www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/
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post #23 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post


The room size doesn't matter. The distance from the speaker to the listening position matters.

If it is a large room then large subs could be beneficial. You would need to use a higher crossover like 120 or 150 or even 200hz but they can still be made to blend in nicely.

And that is one reason why it would make a difference. The OPs plans to mount the speakers up in the air would likely make the midbass very localizable from the sub. Speakers that play lower and could use an 80hz crossover would probably do better at making the bass seem better throughout the room.
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post #24 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

And that is one reason why it would make a difference. The OPs plans to mount the speakers up in the air would likely make the midbass very localizable from the sub. Speakers that play lower and could use an 80hz crossover would probably do better at making the bass seem better throughout the room.

Yes it takes a bit more work to get things sounding right with a higher crossover but it can be done. I am currently using 3" full range drivers crossed over at 200hz. I use four subs with two up front of the room between the front speakers with another two to the left and right of the LP. If I run up and down the crossover range localisation and soundstage doesn't noticeably change but I do notice the better midrange clarity with the higher crossover.
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post #25 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:52 PM
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Kiwi thats why your insistence because you own a 3" full range driver.

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post #26 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2 View Post

I think such opinions are based more on what people are just accustomed to more than anything.

The room size doesn't matter. The distance from the speaker to the listening position matters.

If it is a large room then large subs could be beneficial. You would need to use a higher crossover like 120 or 150 or even 200hz but they can still be made to blend in nicely.

The ORB speakers will have a few advantages over conventional 2-way box speakers. No crossover is an a advantage. No baffle creating baffle bounce and edge diffraction is an a advantage. (It's why B&W put their midrange driver and tweeter on top of the box in a sphear)

The two 3" drivers operating together increase SPL than just one driver by itself. It's the same principle as a MTM speaker.

When you take a full range driver and high pass filter it with the lower frequencies going to subs then it becomes what is referred to as a medium range driver.

Lots of interesting and popular projects going on in here with small full range drivers... www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/
except they have no tweeter and most MTM setups have at least dual 5.25" drivers and move alot more air and creating a larger sound stage. Mod 2's will not compare to actual bookshelfs speakers that have a mid range and tweeter.

I had small satellite system before my bookshelf setup and the difference was extremely noticeable with boost in fidelity.

2 3" full range drivers dont compare to bookshelfs with 5.25" driver, 1" tweeter with frequency response down to 60hz -3db
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post #27 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 03:04 PM
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I had sat speakers too, 2.5". Went quite loud, but sound? Awful. No way I'd be spening $500 on a pair, $100 perhaps

Now if you want a family room, and want uncluttered look I can understand, or perhaps in a landing but you want music playing, non critical sound.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #28 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Kiwi thats why your insistence because you own a 3" full range driver.
3" full range driver rolleyes.gif

Yes, and when you experience some good ones crossed over to subs properly, you would be amazed at how good things can sound.

3" is a good size for a full range driver as explained here... http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html

"You'll never find me running larger full range drivers because I think they generally have too many problems that degrade the sound. But the 3" wide range is another story - they are large enough to blend well with a subwoofer, but small enough to have high frequency extension and off axis response that doesn't stink. 2" drivers are too small, with poor low end extension, distortion and power handling problems. With those you end up with the typical "Blose" sound - no midbass, and a sub that's easily locatable due to a crossover that is too high. 4" or larger drivers can integrate well with a sub, but lack high frequency resolution, have terrible off axis response and have breakup nodes too low in frequency. That leaves us with 3" drivers, the magic size."

The DIY scene has lots of 3" full range projects.... http://www.parts-express.com/project-gallery-speaker-project-celestion-micromax

This was my experimental 2 driver creation and I was very surprised at how loud and how clearly it could full my room.



It spurred me on to build a 4 driver version...



So I have learned from this experience that a set of ORB speakers and good subs would be a fun cool project to put in a room. You just need to get over the whole size ego thing.
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post #29 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 03:34 PM
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kiwi2 what is your listening distance? How big is your room?

Did you saw the op pictures?did you noticed the huge space?


He will probably have to stack 4 or more for each channel and that will ridiculously increase the price and probably still not get the appropriate performance.


Anyways he is definitely not concerned about all this take care.

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post #30 of 93 Old 04-05-2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

kiwi2 what is your listening distance? How big is your room?

The LP is 2 metres away from the speakers. Room size is irrelevant. But if I do go to the back of the room or even into the next room where I still have direct line of site to a speaker it sounds just as loud with little drop in volume. Even two drivers together begin to work like a line array and beam a higher SPL directly in front of them rather than radiating out evenly in all directions. The same as a MTM but with the added advantage of not having to put a tweeter in between the drivers so you can keep them closer together.
Quote:
Did you saw the op pictures?did you noticed the huge space?

Yes of course. And I would be pretty confident that the double ORB will perform well at that distance. Providing he angles them down so they are pointing directly to the LP area. If it was just the single driver model then yes I would have my doubts. No doubt this was discussed with ORB on the phone.

And that is a nice looking room that I wouldn't want to ruin with some tacky cheap looking box speakers that have been suggested as alternatives here. Imagine some small classy looking speakers that you can hardly see and some subs tucked discreetly away somewhere then you turn the music on and you get this wall of sound with pinpoint imaging and strong bass down to 20hz as if it just came out of thin air itself.

Quote:
He will probably have to stack 4 for each channel and that will ridiculously increase the price and probably still not get the appropriate performance.

Not necessarily so at all. The two drivers themselves will work surprisingly well.
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