Luxman R-117 reciever and Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 thoughts ???? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi gentlemen, new guy here and wanting to get back into setting up my old system which consists of a Luxman R-117 receiver (even has remote), an Pioneer Elite CD player and a Adcom line conditioner. The old speakers were Boston T-1000 towers which I sold and I'm leaning toward a new pair of Wharfedale 10.7 towers with perhaps adding one of their subwoofers if I find bass lacking or weak. I've heard pretty good things about the Diamond 10.7' but I'd thought I's run it past the pro's here as I've been out of the game for awhile. So, do you thing the Luxman R117 can deliver the goods for these speakers ?

 

Thanks gentleman,

 

Roy

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post #2 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 06:31 PM
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I can't comment about your receiver, but technically the Wharfedale 10.7's are 6 ohm speaker. The primary reason for the 6 ohm rating is they get power hungry down low.

I personally have had my Wharfedale 10.7's for about a week now. I'm not an audiophile by any means, but I find the mid-range on the speakers to be quite pleasing. I also like how the treble is not harsh and I personally have not found the speakers to be fatiguing. Downside is the tweeter is good, but nothing special and a sub is really suggested. The biggest upside is the WAF with the grilles off, the 10.7's are quite sharp looking and you don't even notice the sides are vinyl wrapped. Overall, I am happy with my purchase.

FYI - I have my 10.7's powered by a Denon X1000 in a large room (3,600 cubic feet). I'm not a bass head nor do I like to blast my music or movies.
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-07-2014, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback on the 10.7. That's pretty much what I gathered fro reading some of the reviews on these is that if they have a weakness, it would be low end bass. What I am planning is to add a Wharfedale 10" subwoofer and hook that up through my R117 pre-outs to the subwoofer's line pre-outs which for my listening room should give me enough bass to be happy in my room that is only 17x12 with a 7ft ceiling.. This room, which I am in the process of building right now will be well insulated, sheet rocked and carpeted as well. This receiver was recommended to me by a guy who owned a end shop in Ridgewood, NJ who sold lots of different high end stuff at the time. Originally, I was going to buy all Adcom separates nd a GFA-200) and he talked me out of it for the Luxman R-117 saying that he felt it sounded better and definitely had a better tuner. This thing has some surprising power for a receiver. I also read that it the Diamond 10.7's were highly recommended by Stereophile mag so I thought, what the heck..

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post #4 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 06:08 AM
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I would consider going with the 10.2 bookshelves, and a better sub. Something like the SVS SB-2000 would be a great choice, and is compact, but very powerful. Being a sealed sub it will work very well for music and will be a huge upgrade over the Wharfedale sub. Internet direct sub manufacturers like SVS, HSU, and PSA offer much more value and performance. The SB-2000 has an 80Hz high-pass filter, making it ideal to pair with some bookshelves, especially if your receiver does not have bass management. I don't think your receiver has a sub pre-out, so finding a sub with a high pass filter will be very helpful.

The main reason I recommend bookshelves over towers, is the towers aren't going to offer much benefit. A sub will do a better job with bass, and render the low extension of towers useless because they will only be playing above 80Hz, where bookshelves and towers are equally capable. Instead of buying unnecessary extensions via towers, put that money into a better sub.

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post #5 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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That makes sense as far as being a better subwoofer into the system. I did question the whole idea about the Wharfedale subwoofer as a compliment and I don't know much about this whole idea of sub woofer out puts being a better idea because of "crossover" specific from the receiver specifically instead of the R-117 just having pre outs that could be used for just about anything not having the low level signal specific so to speak. I don't know very much about all this techno info so I appreciate the info you just gave me as I guess what you were trying to tell me that the Diamond 10.7 with their crossover would still try to produce those bass signals on their own due to their internal cross over which would try to produce low level signals and struggle due to their rather smallish bass drivers. . I guess the Diamond 10.2 don't have that crossover issue and operate better within their intended frequency range. Again, please bear with me because this is all knida new to new and over my head understanding all this crossover info. I got the suggestion from a Wharfedale techno guy and that was what he suggested to me as to just use the the R-117 "pre outs" and hook them to the line level inputs of their subwoofer which I assumed had some type of internal power amp and crossover that could be adjusted for output, but now that you're saying to me what you have, it makes sense that the 10.7's would still stuggle to produce those low level bass signals due to their internal crossovers. I really, really appreciate your advise sir, as I said earlier, I am just getting back into all this have limited knowledge as to how all this crossover stuff works, but what you said makes sense. One last question, no my receiver pre-outs is I assume they produce the full range of signal range high frequency to low frequency, so that whatever subwoofer I attach much have it's own crossover correct ?

 

PS. The Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 are rated down to 30hz if that helps.

 

Again. thank you very very much for all your help sir

 

Regards,

 

Roy Finn

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post #6 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 09:32 AM
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Well here are the two scenarios. All subs have a low-pass filter, which will determine the frequency at which the subs begins to play. It is not a hard wall, and generally there is a slope so that the transition is smoother. However, with only a low-pass filter, the full range signal from your source is sent to the sub, and then also to the speakers. This means your speakers are going to play all the frequencies, and your sub will reinforce the frequencies below the low-pass filter. This isn't ideal because it puts more stress on your amplifier to drive your speakers full range, since low frequencies require more power.

When your sub has a high-pass filter, this lets the sub split the signal coming in. Generally this is a fixed value, in the case of the SB-2000, it is 80Hz. This means the signal coming in will be divided up and the frequencies above the filter sent to the speakers, and below to the sub. This means your sub handles all the heavy lifting, and your receiver has a lighter load on it, giving you more headroom, and better integration.

In my opinion the 10.2s + SB-2000 will sound better than the 10.7s with their matching sub.

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post #7 of 10 Old 04-08-2014, 05:46 PM
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I would concur that going with the 10.7 is more of an aesthetic factor than actual performance. Having a 10.7 instead of a 10.2 with a sub (using the same sub brand, model, etc) should have no significant performance difference between the two. It more or less boils down to how much money do you want to spend.

As for the sub suggestion, it really depends on a lot of factors including budget, room size, desired performance etc. There is nothing wrong with the SB-2000, but may be too much, too little or just right depending on your situation. Check out the sub forum for more information.
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-10-2014, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Well here are the two scenarios. All subs have a low-pass filter, which will determine the frequency at which the subs begins to play. It is not a hard wall, and generally there is a slope so that the transition is smoother. However, with only a low-pass filter, the full range signal from your source is sent to the sub, and then also to the speakers. This means your speakers are going to play all the frequencies, and your sub will reinforce the frequencies below the low-pass filter. This isn't ideal because it puts more stress on your amplifier to drive your speakers full range, since low frequencies require more power.

When your sub has a high-pass filter, this lets the sub split the signal coming in. Generally this is a fixed value, in the case of the SB-2000, it is 80Hz. This means the signal coming in will be divided up and the frequencies above the filter sent to the speakers, and below to the sub. This means your sub handles all the heavy lifting, and your receiver has a lighter load on it, giving you more headroom, and better integration.

In my opinion the 10.2s + SB-2000 will sound better than the 10.7s with their matching sub.

OK, as far as I know, my Luxman R117 does not have a sub woofer out just has a set of " pre-outs" so I'm not seeing how the receiver will know how to direct (so to speak) low level signals from the Diamond 10.7's to the subwoofer ? Forgive my terminology cause I'm new at all this stuff. I could see if my receiver had some sort of low frequency filter, but to my knowledge it doesn't. I understand the subwoofer does, but I'm not seeing how that will effect the receiver wanting to put out a full range of frequencies top to bottom. My receiver does have a "sub sonic" switch on the front of the receiver but I have no clue as to what that does.

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post #9 of 10 Old 04-11-2014, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDFinn View Post

OK, as far as I know, my Luxman R117 does not have a sub woofer out just has a set of " pre-outs" so I'm not seeing how the receiver will know how to direct (so to speak) low level signals from the Diamond 10.7's to the subwoofer ? Forgive my terminology cause I'm new at all this stuff. I could see if my receiver had some sort of low frequency filter, but to my knowledge it doesn't. I understand the subwoofer does, but I'm not seeing how that will effect the receiver wanting to put out a full range of frequencies top to bottom. My receiver does have a "sub sonic" switch on the front of the receiver but I have no clue as to what that does.

Right, that receiver does not have bass management, which I why I recommended a sub with a high-pass filter. Your receiver sends the full-range signal to the sub, the sub sends everything above the filter to the speakers, and handles then just handles the content below.

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post #10 of 10 Old 04-11-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I'm a little slow but now I understand what you're talking about. I didn't realize that the signal, so to speak, was going through the subwoofer first and being split from there. You guys have me thing about the 10.2's and a subwoofer so I'm wondering what if anything I'd be losing sound wise by going with the smallish 10.2's (2 way speakers) compared to the 3 way 10.7's. I've read great things about both of them and I'm wondering if the 10.7's might have a better mid-range than the 10.2's.

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