Best Speakers for a Loud, Crisp (Crystal Clear) Sound? (under $1000 / 2014) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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This will be used for a houseparty system in a 4mx5m room with wooden floors.

Any suggestions on a whole setup ideally under $1500 (including amp, woofs etc) would be appreciated!

 

 

I thought about these (Monitor Audio RX6 AV 12 package) as they have been used here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij_oI1Q5cfk&list=WLirD5KP2vxJnJ8IRRTtquQA&index=4

 

They sound AMAZING! But I'm wondering if I can get an even better setup (For a better price) - from the knowledge of everyone around here?

 

Would love some suggestions, as so many options out there I'm lost! 

As will be for a houseparty, the setup will need to handle bass well - but for me personally a crisper, quality sound wins any day.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

=== NOTE I'M IN THE UK ==== 

Some of the less known speakers can be double the US list price - so bare that in mind (but if still worth it at double the current price, I'm even more excited to hear your suggestion)

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post #2 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Speakers can be any size, honestly open to anything.

 

 

 Help please! 

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post #3 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 07:24 PM
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Klipsch.
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Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
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post #4 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 07:51 PM
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The rx6 is good, I have the rx8 and love them. Just get a good sub (hsu vtf15h maybe?) and you'll be fine.
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post #5 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 09:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterwhite View Post

This will be used for a houseparty system in a 4mx5m room with wooden floors.
Any suggestions on a whole setup ideally under $1500 (including amp, woofs etc) would be appreciated!


I thought about these (Monitor Audio RX6 AV 12 package) as they have been used here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij_oI1Q5cfk&list=WLirD5KP2vxJnJ8IRRTtquQA&index=4

They sound AMAZING! But I'm wondering if I can get an even better setup (For a better price) - from the knowledge of everyone around here?

Would love some suggestions, as so many options out there I'm lost! 
As will be for a houseparty, the setup will need to handle bass well - but for me personally a crisper, quality sound wins any day.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Walter

If you want the best loud, accurate sound on a budget you need to forget about the usual home audio suspects. For your intended use, I would seriously consider something like a pair of these:



KRK ROKIT Powered 10-3
Tri-amplified mid-field studio monitor

Product page: http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-rp10-3.html

Specs here: http://www.krksys.com/manuals/rokit/Rokit103_cutsheet.pdf

The Rokits featured at a big speaker shootout about a year ago. Comments re-capped, feedback given and comparisons made starting from here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468211/ne-spring-speaker-shootout-results-thread-april-13-2013/420#post_23346593

At the shootout, the stereo pair measured 110dB peak; 97.5dB max. at 18ft distance with an Omnimic. Measurements are here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468211/ne-spring-speaker-shootout-results-thread-april-13-2013/390#post_23257197 (bottom of post)

They can be readily found for US$500 each + shipping: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/krk-rokit-powered-10-3-monitor-system or http://www.amazon.com/KRK-Mid-Field-10-Inch-Powered-Monitor/dp/B005NKNSV0/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt.

For $1000 you get a pair of speakers that have a adjustable LF and HF response, will play accurately at very loud levels, extend to about 30Hz and pack about 300W of matched on-board amplification.
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post #6 of 91 Old 04-20-2014, 10:24 PM
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Loud? Accurate? Large? Under a grand? Check, check, check, and check,
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post #7 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 12:17 AM
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house party system?




Guys did you saw the video ?

Panasonic 65VT60 / Marantz SR7005 / Marantz UD7007 /PSA XS30 /Revel Performa3 F206 / Revel Performa3 C205 / Revel Surrounds/Sonos Connect/ Roku 3 / Amazon Fire tv / Xbox One / HTPC / Darbee 5000 /Sonos play:1 for bedrooms,kitchen,bathroom/Master bedroom Sonos sound bar/Sonos sub and Sonos play 1 surrounds.
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post #8 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 04:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

house party system?




Guys did you saw the video ?

I did losservatore. (Well about as much as I could stand... about 3 minutes.) biggrin.gif

Am I heading up a dry gully? The OP's room is only 5m x 4m.


@walterwhite: You've given metric measurements. Where are you located?
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post #9 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 05:30 AM
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I'll throw Axiom into the mix as they lean bright and have good sensitivity.
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post #10 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 07:33 AM
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How do you get that nightclub sound in a domestic setting?

 

Where the drums crack like an approaching lightning storm and the bass throbs like the tread of the approach of doom.

 

Power. Lots of power. More than $1000worth. Probably more than the $3000 the OP's proposed system costs.

 

So I reckon these are your best bet at ~$1,000 the pair.

 

http://www.mackie.com/products/srm350/

 

Only 500mm x 300mm x 300mm. Capable of an SPL of over 120dB. Very clean sound.

 

They don't go that low but there isn't much musical information below  40Hz anyway. Not in modern music. Those enormous bass stacks with twin 18" drivers as big as an American fridge you see at gigs and at clubs are rarely specced below 40Hz. Put the power into the mid and high bass rather than try to go low and boomy. 

 

Add the matching sub if you maintain an interest and you could rock a pub or small venue above the legal limit. Bear in mind that a lot of the expense in hi-fi goes into the appearance. There is no reason these Mackies don't sound great even for as little as $1,000.

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post #11 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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@Kini62 (Klipsch)

I've read great things about Klipsch around the forum and have been tempted to get the set-up. I'm wondering how a $3,000 setup in comparison to a $1,000 others have mentioned would compare (For a non-audiophile) would I really notice a x3 increase in sound quality?


@ambesolman (Monitor Audio RX8)
They seem to be quite hard to source, second hand on ebay I think I could grab a pair of RX8 for just under $1,000 this week. Would you advise?


@GIEGAR (KRK ROKIT Powered 10-3)
Great reply, thank you! In my country a pair of these are $1500 including postage. Still worth it? I'm located in a small town in the UK (so going and trying speakers out myself is out of the question - nothing for hundreds of miles)


@datranz (Diysoundgroup.com)
Problem with getting speakers here is postage + tax can often double price. As shipping to UK. A little more advice on the site would be appreciate for a non-audiophile.


@rnatalli (Axiom)
More details would be great.


@LeightonBeck (mackie / srm350)
"Where the drums crack like an approaching lightning storm and the bass throbs like the tread of the approach of doom?" - Haha, I love this! A sentence has never got me so excited before. $1,000 is the lower end of the budget, could stretch to 2/2.5$.. but risk of drunken spillage's so would rather not hit the end of it.

Is this the same one? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mackie-SRM350-Active-Powered-Speaker/dp/B003ELY3NC/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1398096208&sr=1-1&keywords=Mackie+SRM350

They only seem to sell the V2 now and a long-time Mackie fan says the V1 was a lot better and all the V2s he has got have broken. I'm not sure which one you linked too V1/V2. Thoughts?

 

@@@veryone
Really appreciate all the comments from you guys. I'll repay you guys with a video set-up of the final system via youtube. However I'm still torn. Anyone like to weigh-in on the best setup from all those mentioned (above in brackets)

-Thanks

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post #12 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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- double post -

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post #13 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 09:54 AM
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$1k for rx8s is a great price. You could also check audiogon to see if there's anything in the uk for sale too. There's a pr of rx6 on audiogon for $550, but doesn't look like he wants to ship for now. He only has two days left in his listing so he may relist with a shipping option if he doesn't make a sale. Also check out avs classifieds as well, seems to be a bunch of uk folks here.
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post #14 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterwhite View Post



@GIEGAR (KRK ROKIT Powered 10-3)

Great reply, thank you! In my country a pair of these are $1500 including postage. Still worth it? I'm located in a small town in the UK (so going and trying speakers out myself is out of the question - nothing for hundreds of miles)


@datranz (Diysoundgroup.com)

Problem with getting speakers here is postage + tax can often double price. As shipping to UK. A little more advice on the site would be appreciate for a non-audiophile.



-Thanks
This is why it is REALLY helpful if you at least put in your profile what country you are from. This is a primarily US-based forum, so you will get primarily US recommendations, unless you indicate right away that you are from an other country! wink.gif
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post #15 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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@ambesolman - Very tempted to buy RX6/8 (can't find any in UK on class, but some on eBay) - waiting for input for some more guys around here + guys above to see if they think one of their suggestions would impress me more. Have you any experience of the speakers they mentioned? If I do go with the RX6/8, what amp should I get to drive it? + what else would I need to make the sound really improve? Thanks!

 

@jdcrox - Good idea :) profile updated!

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post #16 of 91 Old 04-21-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterwhite View Post

@ambesolman - Very tempted to buy RX6/8 (can't find any in UK on class, but some on eBay) - waiting for input for some more guys around here + guys above to see if they think one of their suggestions would impress me more. Have you any experience of the speakers they mentioned? If I do go with the RX6/8, what amp should I get to drive it? + what else would I need to make the sound really improve? Thanks!

@jdcrox - Good idea smile.gif profile updated!

Wish I could help more, but don't have any experience with the other suggestions so I wouldn't want to try. Here's a link to the monitor audio owner's thread, maybe start half way through. Your looking for impressions of the rx6/8 not the Rs.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/679047/monitor-audio-owners-thread

Edit: the rx6 is 8ohm and could be driven easily by a receiver. The rx8 is 4ohm and my be harder for a receiver to push unless it's stable to 4ohm. Mine isn't and couldn't keep up if it was too loud for too long. I use an Emotiva upa200 which outputs 200w at 4ohm and it does a good job.
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post #17 of 91 Old 04-22-2014, 04:06 AM
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Of course that said, I notice I do not have my residence in my profile!
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post #18 of 91 Old 04-22-2014, 09:54 AM
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For the OP - I highly suggest you listen before you buy...especially if you go with studio monitors. Not sure if there is a Guitar Center in the UK but that is where I demo'ed a bunch of studio monitor speakers. I listened to Mackie, Adam, KRK, Yamaha, and Tannoy. The Adams were the most expensive at $700 per speaker. The KRK sounded like garbage. Yamaha was very nice but literally no bass. Mackie were okay. And the Tannoy stood out well over all the rest at less than $200 per speaker. All were hooked up to the same amp via balanced output. I'm not sure what the others sound like via unbalanced connection, but the Tannoys take a serious dive going from balanced to unbalanced. Btw, the Tannoy501a is what I got and they are extremely loud and very good sound. The will start to distort only after you you are hearing loss range. For your room they would do great. However, you will need a sub to really rock things. I went with a SVS pc12-nsd and it couldn't keep up with the tannoys.
Here's what I'd try and get...an external DAC with balanced outs. You can use a Focusrite 2i4 even. Connect it via USB to your PC or Mac. Get a sub with balanced in and out with a built in crossover that takes out the low-end at 80hz. The SVS pc12+ is an example and does this. Run the balanced out from the DAC to the sub, then run the balanced out from the sub to you studio monitors (taking out the low end.) All together you're looking at around $1800 but that is u.s. prices. Trust me though, this system would play so loud, and so damn clear. You'll impress a lot of people. The downside is there isn't a built in eq in the DAC I mentioned.

I have yet to compare the above system to something ran from an AVR via unbalanced out. I hear the difference isn't much but a loss of SPL. Idk, all I know is that those tannoys screamed and the pc12-nsd did a decent job too. Optimally, I'd get the tannoy 601a instead of the 501a and a sub that can keep up with them like the pc12+ or SVS sb13u. My nsd sub didn't have balanced crossover :/.

Trust me though, listen before you buy. I was all excited about the KRK Rockets until I heard them.
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post #19 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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@Trace79 - Best reply yet, thank you so much! The problem for me is I'm in rural Ireland and the stores within traveling distance have very little selection, so the option of listening before buying is next to impossible. I'd have to cross my fingers and go with what's most recommended. Going to do some digging on your suggestions - thanks so much

 

 

@everyone else - please keep the advice coming! 

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post #20 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 12:24 PM
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Here's a review of the Tannoy 601a. These are around $250 each btw. I had the little brother 501a and my room was about the same size as yours. When I had friends over, they always wanted to show people who haven't heard those speakers how loud they could go. The 601s should be that much better. Here's a small review of them. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/reviews/673900-tannoy-reveal-601a.html

Keep in mind these studio monitors are designed for musicians so they are designed to play the music exactly as it is recorded. So good recordings sound amazing, but bad ones will have all kinds of imperfections you can pick out. I've found in my random collection of 60,000+ songs there aren't too many bad recordings that are worth a skip.

Too be fair the 3-way KRKs mentioned in this thread weren't the ones I listened to, they were the cheaper 2-ways. I forget the name but they were in the $200-$300 range. Here's another small thread asking about Tannoy 601vs cheaper KRKs. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-geso-little-time/606698-krk-rokit-8-g2-vs-tannoy-reveal-601a-active-monitors.html

If you're going to pull the trigger without listening then I'd decide if you are going to go passive speakers with an AVR, or active (amps built in the speakers,) with an external DAC. Oh, btw, you can also use a pre/pros as a DAC and connect your active speakers to that too. However, the cheapest pre/pros I can think of is the UMC-200 by Emotiva.

If you go the AVR/passive speaker route, I think the Ascend Acoustics 340-SE would be a god choice. They get all kinds of praise here on these forums. They have a 92db @ 1 meter sensitivity rating so will play loud with less power. They also have two 5" drivers and are around $500+ for the pair.

I can't recommend a 2-channel AVR but I imagine you can save some coin by getting something basic here. You shouldn't need anything more than 100watts per channel with two channels driven. Should be able to find something for a couple hundred here.

Now for the sub, since you really want to rock out...DON'T go cheap here. In fact, you should spend a large part of your budget here. Being that I went with a $750 SVS pc12-nsd and still wanted more, I think you should go with nothing smaller than a pc12+ if you go SVS. I think a 15" driver will be better suited in your case though so PSA XS15 might be better. Higher output than the SVS I had and same price. This would be the minimum for sub I would get...trust. Good subs are expensive but you'll know exactly where your money went the second the bass drops in that nasty dub step lol.

So, this route will be a bit cheaper than going with studio monitors but would be a great system for house parties.
Ascend 340-SE - $500+
PSA XS15 - $750+shipping
2-channel AVR $200.
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post #21 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Again @Trace79, I can't thank you enough. Brilliant recommendations - exactly what I was looking for. I've looked up every bit of kit you mentioned, with one major problem - the majority  of it is not available in the UK. 

I managed to find some second hand Tannoy 501a's - should be able to get a pair for under $250 - but haven't herd back from seller yet.

Ascend 340-SE,PSA XS15 - can't seem to find any UK distributers

2-channel AVR  - Sorry for my lack of understanding here, this is just an AMP to power the speakers right? Will the UMC-200 make a $750 difference to the sound?


Seems a real shame that most of your suggestions don't seem to be available in the UK - I guess this a problem when you want top quality.

I have to say Trace, the way you explain things is great! I'm very grateful you took the time to reply. I was about to ask you a few things and you explained them in the next paragraph :) 

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post #22 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 06:18 PM
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There are lots of good British speaker companies like KEF.

http://www.kefstore.co.uk/

Shouldn't be hard to rock out in a room that size.
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post #23 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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@Gmash - Anything that stands out from that site? All seems very expensive. 

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post #24 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 10:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterwhite View Post

.
.
@GIEGAR (KRK ROKIT Powered 10-3)

Great reply, thank you! In my country a pair of these are $1500 including postage. Still worth it? I'm located in a small town in the UK (so going and trying speakers out myself is out of the question - nothing for hundreds of miles)
.
.

Amazon UK have the KRK Rokit 10-3's for £800/pair (free UK shipping). Does that work out to around $1500? I guess the price would be relative to all other options available to you. Bear in mind that these are active speakers, so you don't have the outlay of separate amplification. They can be run directly off a 2 channel DAC hooked up to a digital source, as described by Trace79 above. They have a 10" woofer, so they're capable of pretty reasonable bass without the need for a subwoofer. (Adding a sub later would still improve the overall performance though.)

Given your difficulty in auditioning speakers and your intended use, I reckon that a studio monitor speaker (preferably powered) is the way to go for you. These types of speakers are designed to be accurate and maintain low distortion at sustained loud levels. They are "tools of trade" for content creators so they must perform as specified or the product will fail in the pro marketplace. Many powered monitors also have built in DSP controlled frequency response adjustments to enable the specific room and placement situation to be taken into account.
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post #25 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 10:23 PM
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If you can get a used pair of tannoys (or other,) for cheap then it might be worth the risk to pull the trigger without listening as opposed to buy expensive and new and not liking what you got.

If you get the tannoys, remember an xlr balanced connection is a must. Get a used audio interface (used for musicians but have good DACs,) like the focusrite I mentioned earlier. Focusrite makes quality AI and going used shouldn't be a problem at all. http://www.amazon.co.uk/audio-interface/b?ie=UTF8&node=407821031 Should be able to save some cash here too.

Now you have about $1000 left for a wicked sub. If you can stretch your budget a bit, and get the SVS pc12-plus, you'll get more out of those tannoys because this is the entry level sub that has a L/R channel xlr balanced in and out that cuts out the 80hz and below. So, hook up the sub to the audio interface using the balanced connection, then run the balanced out from the sub to the tannoys. Now you have the sub doing all the low end and those tannoys won't be stressed at all at really, really loud levels. I ran mine with the low end not taken out loud and long periods with no issues for over a year fwiw.

The reason I say to do this is because it is hard to find an external audio interface with more than one set of balanced xlr outs. There are pre/pros that have multiple but this is very costly.

I know there aren't SVS dealers in your area but they are one of the better ID sub companies out there and may be worth the international shipping. The pc12+ is also a cylinder so its smaller footprint for your room and not as heavy reducing shipping cost. Its $1200 but I can't think of a better sub to match a pair of studio monitors in a 2.1 setup. SVS is known for putting limiters on their products so you will never be able to distort the sub or run it too hard on accident and cause stress to the amp. This is why they have such long warranties.
You can go with a cheaper sub that doesn't have balanced in/out and just use the unbalanced connection here and the balanced going to the tannoys. This was how I ran mine but I was left wanting to use the potential I knew they had, but couldn't unless I got a better sub with balanced connections.

Side note: there are subs made for studio monitors and I think Mackie makes one that has the balanced in/outs I talked about. However, you will not get anywhere near the performance of the SVS. It'll do, but it won't make people go "wow." If the budget is close, save a bit more and then pull the trigger...you'll be glad you did.

As far as the Emotiva umc-200, I wouldn't get this with the tannoys...no balanced out. It will have room correction and eq, so there's a plus there. But you'll need an amp or "other" powered speakers.

The audio interfaces don't give the eq option. You'll be listening to how the musicians recorded the music. So this is preferred for "purests." I honestly never felt the need to eq ever with my tannoys, SVS sub, and focusrite 2i4...but that is my subjective opinion. Oh, and not once when I was throwing a party or even watching movies did someone say, "you know, your system could use some eq'ing" lol.

Try the used tannoys and an audio interface alone for cheap. You may be happy with them alone but you will see what I mean with low end needed with a sub.
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post #26 of 91 Old 04-23-2014, 11:38 PM
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To answer you question about the 2-channel AVR (audio/video receiver): this just a basic 2-channel (L/R) stereo receiver that has eq and amps built in to power speakers. Some will have sub connections too. The home theater AVRs have 5.1 or more channels (speakers.) They are more expensive but since you're mastly just needing it for music, 2-channel will do and will be cheaper.

Another note if you go with studio monitors. A few problems I came across: 1) Y-splitters don't work with balanced outs. They'll turn your balanced connection to unbalanced if you use them.
2) My first audio interface was a cheap $100 one and worked fine with the balanced signal to the tannoys but the unbalanced RCA to the sub was too weak of a signal and the sub sounded like crap. Replaced it for the Focusrite and problem was solved. Can't remember the brand or model unfortunately...sorry. It could have been a defected unit too.
3) most studio monitors don't have grill covers on them and people will want to put their greasy fingers on them after they see that driver fluttering like crazy. The tweeter is very soft so don't let drunk idiots touch them lol.

Now, if you want to add more speakers later on, I believe you can "daisy-chain" the studio monitors if they have balanced outs (and I think the tannoys do.) This will give you more output and also that "club" feeling with speakers all around.

To correct myself; it's M-Audio that I listened to at guitar center and not Mackie. M-Audio is also the company that makes the sub with balanced connections. Maybe Mackie does too but I got these two brands mixed up, sorry.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trace79 View Post

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Too be fair the 3-way KRKs mentioned in this thread weren't the ones I listened to, they were the cheaper 2-ways. I forget the name but they were in the $200-$300 range. Here's another small thread asking about Tannoy 601vs cheaper KRKs. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-geso-little-time/606698-krk-rokit-8-g2-vs-tannoy-reveal-601a-active-monitors.html
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Thanks, I appreciate that clarification. In the G2G thread I linked above, the owner of the Rokit 10-3's made this comment:
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Originally Posted by rush2049 View Post

While they are in the same product family from KRK (Rokit) The Rokit Powered 8 Gen2 (RP8G2) and the smaller ones as well (RP6G2 and RP5G2) are nowhere near as good with sound quality or freq response. The 10-3 is in a league of its own

The KRK 10-3 is what I brought (own), I really wouldn't recommend anything else KRK makes.... sad to say it.....

When I asked about the smaller Rokits for surrounds he said:
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Originally Posted by rush2049 View Post

I do not have time to respond properly right now (7 hour road trip in 39 minutes).

I truly meant what I said With the 10-3 being a league above the other rokits. I wouldnt spend money on them......


As a word of warning. The 10-3s are very very sensitive to being properly grounded and to having a truly 0 volt ground. I had to buy a power conditioner and wire my recievers grounding post to it to solve the issue.....

This appears to gel with your impressions of the smaller 2-way Rokits. The 10-3's however appear to be a much better speaker, possibly due to their 4" midrange.
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post #28 of 91 Old 04-24-2014, 12:31 AM
 
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@walterwhite, @Trace79

The good news is that SVS have a UK distributor: Karma AV (link).
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post #29 of 91 Old 04-24-2014, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Amazon UK have the KRK Rokit 10-3's for £800/pair (free UK shipping). Does that work out to around $1500? I guess the price would be relative to all other options available to you. Bear in mind that these are active speakers, so you don't have the outlay of separate amplification. They can be run directly off a 2 channel DAC hooked up to a digital source, as described by Trace79 above. They have a 10" woofer, so they're capable of pretty reasonable bass without the need for a subwoofer. (Adding a sub later would still improve the overall performance though.)

I agree. These have a reputation on AVS for putting out a heck of a lot of volume for the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

@walterwhite, @Trace79

The good news is that SVS have a UK distributor: Karma AV (link).

BK is an Internet direct subwoofer vendor in the UK. Check out this 12" ported sub, the Monolith DF. Downfiring would be nice for parties so no one messes with the driver. smile.gif
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post #30 of 91 Old 04-24-2014, 08:05 AM
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Q acoustic concepts are worth auditioning, I just got a pair of concept 20 bookshelf's and they are a very, very good budget speaker. They beat my 2 year old Monitor audio Bronze Bx2's comfortably and yet they sell for around the same price. I was intending to stay with the Monitor Audio range and upgrade to the new silver 1's but lost interest once I heard the cheaper q acoustics concepts 20's
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