are high-end speaker wires bunk? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 492 Old 07-18-2002, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricbayer

However, since this is avsforum and some audiophiles also watch TV, let's talk about video cables for a minute. When this skeptic hooked up AT&T analog cable TV, I was shocked to see that the video signal was awful especially low number channels had ghosting and noise after the standard cable tv hookup. I called the cable tv company (ATT) who described the problem as signal interference, put on better cables, and a device at the cable box. It was better but still pretty bad. Encouraged that some improvement had occurred with "better cables", I put on some of Monster's best coaxial cables and the TV reception markedly improved. Wow. I had to rethink things. The cable company said they couldn't fix it but the Monster coaxial cables fixed the problem. That was analog cable a couple of years back and in spite of switching now to digital cable and getting a cable box, it still looks good. :D

Rick

Rick,

RF (Radio Frequencies) are affected by the type of cable used. Quality coaxial cable like Belden are better because they contain more braid, better foil wrap and a better dielectric around the center conductor. You have to remember that RF radiates as well as being conducted along the wire. The more braid there is, the less space it has to escape. (this is as simple as I can put it). The cable also has a certain impedance, which if mismatched will cause the signal to reflect back down the line, the net effect of which will be wasted power (signal loss), and in severe cases, ghosting.

Audio frequencies on the other hand, are so low in frequency that they do not radiate, and are therefore not affected by the quality of the shielding on the cable.

Ryan, N2RJ

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post #92 of 492 Old 07-18-2002, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Socio
What the!

Looks like according to the general consensus here I wasted a lot of money on cables! All my cables are top of the line Monster Cable brand, i.e speaker wire, RCA, S-Video, Digital, Fiber and Component cables.

However according to the sales reps they were virtually a must have for best performance and the ones included with equipment were throw aways.

For the amount of money I have spent this comes as quite a disheartening reality check.
I just had to laugh when circuit city put up a display with monster cable versus standard cable. They had two DVD players and HDTV's side by side , one using cheap cables and one using monster, and had a big sign that said "compare the difference..".

I would always tell the sales reps that I can't see the difference between the two, and they would somehow try to convince me that (the more expensive) monster was better. As you can see, the emperor's new clothes are still being worn!

I am using lamp cord for all my speakers and RCA/Radioshack/generic interconnects and I am perfectly happy with the sound and picture. I never bought into the monster cable hype and never will.

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post #93 of 492 Old 07-18-2002, 03:55 PM
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raj2001

What I absorbed from your educational post is that better shielded video cables may improve accuracy in video signals but better shielded cables are unlikely to improve accuracy in audio? Is that close? :D

This would certainly support my observations and reading. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)

Rick
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post #94 of 492 Old 07-20-2002, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by clau


OK, fair enough. So to answer your original question, assuming it was not rhetorical, the "saturation point" depends on the lengths of the cables used and the impedances of the speakers. .
clau,

The original question IS rhetorical!

I'm pointing out that the original review contains an internal contradiction or inconsistency.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist

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post #95 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 06:52 AM
 
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Point everybody is missing is the sourcegear. If your using a low end/low power receiver and some Cerwin vegas or Jbl's don’t bother with expensive wires. You simply cannot produce dynamics, detail etc that isnt there to start with. Ill be the first to say good wires like audioquest, transparent are grossly overpriced. But that’s why I never bought a new cable in my life and shopped for all used or demo wire. Low impedance speakers and high power amps definitely warrant some experimentation with wires, cables Imo. Anyone in the area can come over here and listen to the vast difference between cabling. No Dbts necessary at all.. I’ve tried expensive powercords for my amp and haven’t noticed squat but running seperate dedicated circuits for both analog & digital gear with some 6 dollar hospital grade outlets changed things dramatically. Just don’t buy anything and bring it home and expect magic, somehow you need to demo (borrow) a set of cables and check them out and see if they are for you before buying. If you look back through this thread you will notice 90% of the posters who own 70 watt receivers feel expensive cabling is bunk in their situation and that’s true but it certainly doesn’t apply to me or others.


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post #96 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 08:05 AM
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So Shaun, if I understand you correctly you must have sufficiently high powered amplifiers and sensitive speakers to hear the differences between cables?
Or maybe one must have deep enough pockets to have sufficiently developed hearing?

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has passed.
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post #97 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 08:09 AM
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My problem with cabling is that it's very hard to test. I just purchased a fancy digital interconnect along with three balanced interconnects. I wanted to do testing between the fancy interconnects and the regular interconnects I have, but this turns out to be very hard to do. For instance, for me to connect a new interconnect to an amp, I have to disconnect everything from the sources and speakers, then alternately push the speaker wire through a whole in my rack and pull the amp out. All the cables are basically exactly the length they need to be (not by design -- accident; the left speaker wire, for instance, has zero leeway). So, there's no way for me to easily switch back and forth between two wires. Even the RCA digital interconnect is hard for me to test, because you have to turn the power off to switch interconnects (I can test RCA versus optical, but I don't know how valid of a test this would be).

Ideally, I'd like to be able to instaneously switch back and forth between two wires. I did this when I compared the DACs of my Proceed AVP (using my CD player as transport) to the analog output of my Pioneer Elite CD player. I liked the Proceed better, so I now use it exclusively.

I realize that sometimes back-and-forth testing isn't necessary. My friend and I dropped my Jeff Rowland amp into his system, listened to it for a while, then I took the JR home. The next weekend, when he had his Proceed amp in his system, it was easy to tell then that there's a tremendous differences in the amps. But cables are (or should be) much harder to compare differences.

Also, I moved everything around this weekend. This movement has caused a tremendous improvement in low bass for my system. Previously, the bass was anemic. Now, it's quite good (almost too good -- it might be a bit bass heavy, but I'm using AV speakers). How much of that was the cables? Got me. I knew about the bass problem (I have before and after test results measured with a RS meter and test tone disk), but I didn't buy the cables to address the bass problem.

I guess my point is that it's hard for us consumers to verify claims of cable manufacturers. In my case, it's darn near impossible for me to test the cables. When I move, I might leave things on the floor for a while to have better access to components and cables; this way, I can test to see if the cables I bought make any difference. As of now, I'm reluctant to say that they made any difference. All I can say is that the room change made a huge difference (unless a cable can provide a 14dB difference at 40Hz, and a 7dB difference at 31.5Hz).

By the way, why is it that I have to login every time I want to post? This occurs even if I've logged in before. I have cookies enabled (although I throw them away when the browser closes).
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post #98 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 08:30 AM
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Shaun,

If it's so obvious a difference, then why aren't there any DBTs to back up these claims by the cable manufacturers. They would definitely sell more of the expensive cables by being able to advertise this rather than a lot of subjective verbiage and pseudoscientific hooey (in some cases).

Azistoohot,

This is why people are inclined to just accept claims that certain cables are so great, especially if it's only a fraction of the cost of their great audio system. In regards to your last paragraph, by the way, the website needs the info in your cookie to log you back in automatically.

M
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post #99 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 09:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by moore
Shaun,

If it's so obvious a difference, then why aren't there any DBTs to back up these claims by the cable manufacturers. They would definitely sell more of the expensive cables by being able to advertise this rather than a lot of subjective verbiage and pseudoscientific hooey (in some cases).
M
I don’t believe that at all, in that case the Dbt's would be questioned, or the people performing the dbt's etc, it would be never ending. The bottom line is *your* ears. Like I said, I would suggest to anyone interested in cabling not to buy them without a thorough audition. Depending on the dealers you know and how well, that might be difficult. The only reason I have some of my cables is because they were dirt cheap for me to get. Specifically my interconnects which cost a fortune at retail and return very little improvement over ratshack stuff. On the other hand speaker wire has made a big improvement.
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post #100 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 10:02 AM
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Kidd Digital wrote

Quote:
Him: Well, on the Recoton, the light can be reflected around in the cable, causing poor quality sound.
What he's describing is refraction, and it's not likely to happen unless the cable is bent enough to cause a radius. In other words: He's full of crap.
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post #101 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricbayer
raj2001

What I absorbed from your educational post is that better shielded video cables may improve accuracy in video signals but better shielded cables are unlikely to improve accuracy in audio? Is that close? :D

This would certainly support my observations and reading. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)

Rick
That would be correct, and here is a more detailed explanation.

Signal loss on cable goes up with the frequency transmitted and increased length of the cable. For example, RG-6 coax cable is rated at 2.8dB loss per 100 feet at 200MHz. That's almost half your signal. But, at 1MHz, you only get 0.2dB per 100ft. Audio signals only range from 20Hz to 20KHz, therefore the signal loss is virtually nil. Video signals on the other hand, range from DC (0Hz) to 4.2MHz, which means that you are going to have significantly more signal loss per 100 feet of cable than you are going to have with audio. The lower loss cables have more shielding and less dielectric than do the inferior (cheap) ones. Some have foam dielectric and some have plastic.

Now you have to understand that you are going to lose 0.2 to 0.6 dB of signal per hundred feet of RG-6 cable, which means that for 6 to 12 feet you are going to lose virtually nothing. Even if you use the lossiest super thin RG-174 cable, (let's get ridiculous here) at 10MHz you are going to lose 3.3dB per 100 feet. Divide that by 100 and you are going to lose practically nothing at 3 to 6 feet, at 10MHz. Bear in mind again that audio is at highest 20KHz and video tops out at 4.2MHz.

For digital signals it's even better, because not only is the loss in the cable insignificant, but the digital error correction picks up where the cable left off.

Ryan, N2RJ

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post #102 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaun
Point everybody is missing is the sourcegear. If your using a low end/low power receiver and some Cerwin vegas or Jbl's don’t bother with expensive wires. You simply cannot produce dynamics, detail etc that isnt there to start with. Ill be the first to say good wires like audioquest, transparent are grossly overpriced.
Basic electronics:
Power=Voltage*Current

Resistance=Voltage/Current

Since your resistance in your load (speakers) doesn't change when you crank your amp, more power means more voltage and current.

You therefore need thicker wire for higher current. It doesn't have to be made by monster cable or be made of pure gold or glow in the dark or anything like that. As long as it's thick enough to handle the current you are putting through it you'll be fine.

It's amazing how easy many audiophiles can be duped into buying totally useless and expensive products (nope I am not talking about your gear :D ) Anyone remember the speaker wire platforms, directional speaker wire or the magic green marker for CD's?

Ryan, N2RJ

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post #103 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by raj2001


That would be correct, and here is a more detailed explanation.

Signal loss on cable goes up with the frequency transmitted and increased length of the cable. For example, RG-6 coax cable is rated at 2.8dB loss per 100 feet at 200MHz. That's almost half your signal. But, at 1MHz, you only get 0.2dB per 100ft. Audio signals only range from 20Hz to 20KHz, therefore the signal loss is virtually nil. Video signals on the other hand, range from DC (0Hz) to 4.2MHz, which means that you are going to have significantly more signal loss per 100 feet of cable than you are going to have with audio. The lower loss cables have more shielding and less dielectric than do the inferior (cheap) ones. Some have foam dielectric and some have plastic.

Now you have to understand that you are going to lose 0.2 to 0.6 dB of signal per hundred feet of RG-6 cable, which means that for 6 to 12 feet you are going to lose virtually nothing. Even if you use the lossiest super thin RG-174 cable, (let's get ridiculous here) at 10MHz you are going to lose 3.3dB per 100 feet. Divide that by 100 and you are going to lose practically nothing at 3 to 6 feet, at 10MHz. Bear in mind again that audio is at highest 20KHz and video tops out at 4.2MHz.

Actually the loss is even less, because the audio interconnects do not work like transmission lines. The stated losses for the coax cables were for connections between correctly matched impedances. In audio, the impedances are mismatched (low output impedances driving high input impedances), so the cable loss is even less critical. For example, if the cable between the preamp and the output amp has 10 ohms of resistance, the loss in signal level is totally insignificant, since the power amp has an input impedance much higher than 10 ohms.

In video and digital audio, the losses have a greater effect, because the interconnects are used as transmission lines between matched impedances (75 ohms). Component video cables carry the highest frequencies, so that's where you should have the lowest loss. But low loss cables are not expensive: Radio Shack cables are perfectly adequate.

CLau
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post #104 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by raj2001

It's amazing how easy many audiophiles can be duped into buying totally useless and expensive products (nope I am not talking about your gear :D ) Anyone remember the speaker wire platforms, directional speaker wire or the magic green marker for CD's?
Believe it not RJ, I choose my system for two ch music many years ago and only added the AV equipment the last two. I’m sure you’re curious to what a two channel system is so just head down to Singer since you’re in the neighborhood. If I need any advice on av receivers or a heads up on sales at Supreme Video ill keep you in mind.

Thanks in advance
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post #105 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 06:04 PM
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It is obvious that Shaun did not read the thread very closely. There were multiple posts from people who own very expensive equipment and several posts about how DBTs were conducted on expensive audiophile gear and people repeatedly failed to distinguish between cables and interconnects. Such as the Dunlavy comparisons where numerous audiophiles and audio magazine reviewers failed to tell the difference between several high-end speakers cables vs standard #12 wire, being used on Dunlavy's own Stereophile Class A speakers.

The cry of "your system doesn't have sufficient resolution" is a common one amongst the pro-magical wires crowd. It is one that I have heard first-hand over 20 times from people who then proceeded to fail DBTs between various speaker cables, interconnects, digital cables and power cords conducted on high-end audio systems.

Shaun says that no DBTs are necessary to hear the difference. I agree. The only way you are going to "hear" the difference is to stay away from DBTs. Personally I'll admit to "hearing" the differences without DBTs on many, many occasions. Well, I'll admit my language is a bit strong, perhaps some people can tell a difference. I'm about 0 for 20'something so far in trying to find such a person, but that doesn't mean it is impossible. And I know there are others who are about 0 for 50, but still not impossible.

That said, you do have a nice system. You own several pieces that I've used in DBTs and the Dynaudio 3.3's were on my own final list of three before I bought my Von Schweikerts. I'm sure your system sounds wonderful.

Tom B.
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post #106 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shaun


Believe it not RJ, I choose my system for two ch music many years ago and only added the AV equipment the last two. I’m sure you’re curious to what a two channel system is so just head down to Singer since you’re in the neighborhood. If I need any advice on av receivers or a heads up on sales at Supreme Video ill keep you in mind.

Thanks in advance
I'm not quite sure what you meant..... As a matter of fact I am really really lost. I know what a 2 channel system is, but what does singer (sewing machines???) have to do with it?

Anyway, I'll probably be seeking some advice when I am building my home theater in my new house next year. So far I have been lurking and reading the forums here (among other places) an learning alot about A/V gear.

Thanks

P.S. I wasn't referring to you when I said "so many audiophiles... etc etc", unless you fall into the "magic CD marker" category.

Ryan, N2RJ

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post #107 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 06:17 PM
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I just went through this ordeal with my new speakers. I took in my old receiver (an old H-K 795i - we are still using it - great piece of equipment) and went through the various types of wires and listened to the same music with the same speakers, same sound level, different wires. There were differences I could discern, some had more highs, others had more lows - we settled on Naim wire which seemed to give a better balance to the speakers.

Dave

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post #108 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
but what does singer (sewing machines???) have to do with it?
His reference is to "Sound by Singer", a firm that caters to the needs of the 2 channel crowd, and I am quite sure, by his condescending attitude, that he has spent quite a bit of time there.
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post #109 of 492 Old 07-21-2002, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by botrytis
I just went through this ordeal with my new speakers. I took in my old receiver (an old H-K 795i - we are still using it - great piece of equipment) and went through the various types of wires and listened to the same music with the same speakers, same sound level, different wires. There were differences I could discern, some had more highs, others had more lows - we settled on Naim wire which seemed to give a better balance to the speakers.

Dave
Were all the wires the same thickness/gauge? If not then there's your problem. I also don't quite see why the wires would cause a difference in the highs and the lows. I'm also curious, did you just use your ears or did you use instruments? I am really curious as to what the instruments say.

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post #110 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 05:54 AM
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Raj,

One of the wires was thicker, the rest were around 14 gauge wire. The difference was the thickness of the copper wire in the bundle and how the wire was put together - braided, stranded, etc.

We did not use any instruments. It was by ear only. Instrument readings would have been interesting to see, but unimportant as your ears are the final judge. It still is a subjective decision, you buy what you like.

I have worked in science for many years and have learned that instruments don't tell the whole story. Take light, for example. Our eyes are very sensitive towards blue light, such that our eyse can see blue before a spectrophotometer can detect it.

Dave

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post #111 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 07:14 AM
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Let me preface my question by stating that I'm in the "give me adequate gage at a decent price and I'll be happy" camp, although I've only formulated this opinion by doing lots of reading and being an experienced electrical engineer, and not by experience with audio equipment and cables. I am mostly seeking comments from those in the same camp (i.e, I'm getting away from the camp wars and I'm happy in mine).

As I intend to provide in-wall speaker wires in my basement HT, I've heard a few radicals suggest that 12/2 Romex works just fine for speaker wire and is obviously rated for in-wall use. This is certainly the easiest way to go, but I wonder if there are any drawbacks that I cannot think of? My original idea was to use landscape wiring as it is weatherproof (longevity is important for in-wall wires, IMHO), but that would require conduit to satisfy code, I think.

Anybody have experience with this ridiculously cheap and easy approach?
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post #112 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tim_S
One quick comment:
Reading through this thread the word "belief" came up far too many times. In particular it came up in sentences like "I believe because I read article y" or "I believe because of argument x". It would seem that if you subtracted off the posts of people throwing out their opinions based on no actual listening tests of their own this would have been down to maybe 4-5 posts. Strikes me as interesting, that people can have such vehement opinions on either side of this debate without ever actually trying more than 1 or 2 cables for themselves. Myself, I'm more humble about my ability to observe things and think I should actually do a lot of research and testing before making such bold statements. I'm impressed by those who can reach such conclusions without doing so. . .

Tim
What an arrogant and short sighted attitude. I presume you don't think the earth is round. You don't believe that atoms and sub atomic particles exist. You don't believe a word you read in the newspaper.

Somehow I don't think that's the case. You take other people's words to be fact all the time. You (most likely) believe the earth to be round, but have you personally seen it from space to know it for yourself? I bet you believe that atoms exist, but have you ever seen one? Have you ever used an electron microscope and taken a look at an atom? Probably not, but you "believe" other's words about these all the time. Why are audio cables any different?

Oh, and I'd never go so far as to consider someone humble after they brag on it to the world in a thread on the internet.

Stereodude
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post #113 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ssabin
As I intend to provide in-wall speaker wires in my basement HT, I've heard a few radicals suggest that 12/2 Romex works just fine for speaker wire and is obviously rated for in-wall use. This is certainly the easiest way to go, but I wonder if there are any drawbacks that I cannot think of? My original idea was to use landscape wiring as it is weatherproof (longevity is important for in-wall wires, IMHO), but that would require conduit to satisfy code, I think.
This is A/C electrical wiring, isn't it?
No reason why it wouldn't work, but it wouldn't be my first choice. The thick plastic insulation and the solid wire are not very flexible and are difficult to work with. Even though they are in-wall, the ends are in the room and you will have to work with them from time to time.
No need to worry about the electrical code. The electrical code is concerned with 120/240 VAC safety, and doesn't apply to speaker cables. Building fire safety code might apply, but I would think that ordinary 12 ga speaker cable would be fine.

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has passed.
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post #114 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 08:29 AM
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There is added value to quality speaker cables. I don't "buy" into the excessively expensive cables, but I do like the value and durability of quality materials and workmanship. I had purchased 12ga Monster-type cable for my home theater for approx. $0.50/ft. I later purchased Audioquest GR-8 SST cables (discontinued) from a company advertising in Stereophile. A 12ft pair with quality WBT connections cost about $100. I think the aggregate wire size was 9ga. So for approx $3.00/ft I got 24ft of 9ga wire, expertly terminated with quality connectors, with an outside wozen cover in my choice of colors (good when attempting to find the correct channels, my mains, center and surrounds are all different colors). The audioquest are easier to handle, doesn't curl or twist, the connections are secure and they really do sound somewhat better. I have them connected in bi-amp to my Legacy Focus, Silver Screen center, and T&A P30 speakers I use for surrounds. I felt it was such an excellent deal I purchased a set for my bedroom system. So for me, it's not all about the sound. They did sound better, but the quality and durability was also a big part of it. I have to admit I would have to hear a much more significant improvement in sound and considerably more improvement in material quality to pay more than this, but for a few extra buck I have excellent quality cables I can use for many years to come.
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post #115 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by botrytis
I have worked in science for many years and have learned that instruments don't tell the whole story. Take light, for example. Our eyes are very sensitive towards blue light, such that our eyse can see blue before a spectrophotometer can detect it.
Eyes are most sensitive to green light, not blue. Spectrophotometers are designed for measuring spectra with precision, not necessarily for 'detecting light', although that is part of the process they use. Nonetheless, a spectrometer with PMT doing single photon counting with good optics will easily detect light that no person could. Extrapolate to the IR and human eyes are toast in comparison to a $5 'instrument' from RatShack. In the end, human senses tell far less of the story than instruments.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that human senses are remarkably good. But they unfortunately are coupled with human emotions. Hence the need for some form of objective measurement. I also agree that simple charts of power spectral density don't describe all audible differences in sound, but they are a decent first cut. Double blind testing removes all instruments from the picture. So why are people who advocate premium cables afraid of DBT?

M
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post #116 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 10:14 AM
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1) Yes, Romex can be used as speaker wire. There have been many positive reports on it working fine, and it was quite popular in England as far back as the 70s. However it is not recommended to be used to drive electrostatic speakers.

2) To repeat myself from an earlier post, if a speaker cable produced more bass (or "lows") in a system, then that effect would be measurable. That is, if you set up a system to produce a sound level of 80dB at 1000Hz and then measured the response below 100 with Cable A. Then did the same again for Cable B, which was claimed to produce more bass, then the frequency curve below 100Hz would be higher for B. Otherwise there could not be more bass with B. Either you can measure more bass or it isn't there.

However if you read the audiophile magazines that publish equipment benchtest measurements and also review cables, you will notice that they don't produce frequency curves for cables. The reason is that they all measure the same. At least all reasonable cables that don't load up the inductance or capacitance and thus vary the signal away from being 100% accurate.

I'm not saying that everything that measures the same, sounds the same. There could be other audible differences. But for the claims that certain cables produce stronger bass or smooth out the highs, nearly all of them are preposterous.

3) I am a strong advocate of DBT as it allows me to compare and select equipment based solely upon my ability to hear real differences. And to focus my money upon those things that improve the listening experience. A very valuable tool for anyone who treasures audio.

Tom B.
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post #117 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by raj2001

Anyone remember the speaker wire platforms, directional speaker wire or the magic green marker for CD's?
Remember?

All of that stuff, and a lot more, is still out there. At one high-end show people were buying a machine that cut the edges of their CDs at 37 degree angles - so as to minimize internal reflections. And Bedini continues to roll out bigger and more expensive CD demagnetizers all the time. And the little wood discs to set on your equipment & magical Shakti stones for your interconnects too.

There is no end of snake oil in high-end audio. And the amazing thing is that nearly every reviewer for nearly every major audiophile magazine buys into nearly all of these wild claims.

Tom B.
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post #118 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 12:02 PM
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I have to confess that I have not read any of the previous post.

My best recommendation for you would be to contact anyone of a number of cable manufacturers that allow a home trial. There are no shortage of companies that will allow a 30 Day home audition.

This will help you answer your main question to your satisfaction. Who cares what conclusions anyone else has reached? I suspect that you & your family & friends are the ones who will be doing the listening. Is Harry Pearson of the Absolute Sound a neighbor or something?

Having demo'd these cables in your own home-set up , you can more accurately make a purchase (if this is your conclusion supports this choice)
based on sound improvement versus cost.

This last step by the way is the hardest determination to make. Good luck with your project!

PS: I do not want to push any single companies products but perhaps a good place to start your search is with the following link.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/twe...akercable.html

The interesting thing about this company is that they primarily make audiophile recordings & as a sideline market audio products based on improvements they have observed. BTW if you read their biographies you will see that they are by no means intellectual lightweights!

Mark Conner
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post #119 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 12:33 PM
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I'm surprised noone has posted this yet:

http://users.htdconnect.com/~djcarlst/abx_wire.htm

You'll note that the sample sizes are somewhat indadequate, but the results are pretty consistent - P values were statistically insignificant.

But see:

http://www.wireworldaudio.com/

What concerns me about this site is the lack of published data they claim to have.

To those that say choosing cables are subjective or that one should "follow his ears", or that some things aren't measurable, thats hooey (that's right, I'm breaking out the big words). Double blind testing was designed specifically to determine if a human can discern audible differences in 2 cables. If you can't hear the difference, there is no discussion.

Now if you want to talk about differences in amplifiers.... :D
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post #120 of 492 Old 07-22-2002, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by damon


PS: I do not want to push any single companies products but perhaps a good place to start your search is with the following link.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/twe...akercable.html

The interesting thing about this company is that they primarily make audiophile recordings & as a sideline market audio products based on improvements they have observed. BTW if you read their biographies you will see that they are by no means intellectual lightweights!
I would be very suspicious of this company's products. CD sprays that eliminate "static hot spots"? Contact "Enhancer" that improves your sound as much as doubling your amplifier investment? Cable Lifts? Power Strips with "low internal skin effect conductors"? Cables that add "half an octave" to your bass? Antit-static zappers for CD's? Seem like classical snake-oil products to me.

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