New Erskine home theater -- Need advice on Klipsch vs. Procella - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
There are definitely much better subs out there in the price vs. performance category than the KA-1000's. This comes up time and time again. The ID approach is definitely your friend here.

I would, however, stay away from their KS-525 surrounds since dipoles and object surround formats don't really go together. Perhaps all KL-525's for the wall and ceiling surrounds (if your columns can handle their size) since you can get such a good deal on the Klipsch's. They may need to be angled just like in a commercial theater, though maybe Dennis has more information on proper speaker installation given Dolby Atmos' requirements than us lay people.
In stage one, I'm going to skip worrying about Atmos, other than to have ceiling coffer/beams wired and AT fabric in spots that will house the ceiling speakers later (without having to penetrate the ceiling).

I'm probably going to go with four KS-7800 (in wall) dipole speakers short term in the columns, but I'm looking at those as disposable, and then in 12-18 months when I have EG back to install DSPs and some other equipment, I'll replace the di-poles with monopoles (six instead of four) and by then we should know the direction to go on the ceiling speakers. The big thing I want to do in terms of Atmos in the room is make sure i'm wired and have a place to mount them inside the coffer beams easily later.

On the sub, I'm going to do some looking. Most of the ID sub options I've seen are more than going the KS-120 route, but I have a little time to decide, so I'll keep looking and then make a decision.
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post #152 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 10:47 AM
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In stage one, I'm going to skip worrying about Atmos, other than to have ceiling coffer/beams wired and AT fabric in spots that will house the ceiling speakers later (without having to penetrate the ceiling).

I'm probably going to go with four KS-7800 (in wall) dipole speakers short term in the columns, but I'm looking at those as disposable, and then in 12-18 months when I have EG back to install DSPs and some other equipment, I'll replace the di-poles with monopoles (six instead of four) and by then we should know the direction to go on the ceiling speakers. The big thing I want to do in terms of Atmos in the room is make sure i'm wired and have a place to mount them inside the coffer beams easily later.

On the sub, I'm going to do some looking. Most of the ID sub options I've seen are more than going the KS-120 route, but I have a little time to decide, so I'll keep looking and then make a decision.
Don't forget the wiring for the front wide side wall surrounds. Perhaps even wire for six or more ceiling speakers depending on Dolby recommendations for spacing given your room dimensions.

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post #153 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't forget the wiring for the front wide side wall surrounds. Perhaps even wire for six or more ceiling speakers depending on Dolby recommendations for spacing given your room dimensions.
I thought in the Atmos info I was reading, they weren't using wide sides, but instead front and rear ceiling (could be more than that, but that being the minimum recommended). I bed I was looking at what the first crop of receivers will support and not what will be coming.

I have an empty column halfway between the front row and screen, I bet that could be used for front side wides, and maybe wire and put fabric in place for 6 ceiling speakers. I'm guessing that's all I can do without some fairly major changes to my room design.
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post #154 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 11:57 AM
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I can't say I agree with all of Doug's opinions in his posts here. Lots of good stuff, but some stuff that I don't agree with. One in particular is large room verses small room regarding ease of design. One is no easier than the other. Both have their issues, and once addressed, will result in terrific performance. It comes down to scale; the quality of the sound over x number of seats. The smaller the room, the tougher it is to deliver a uniform experience, especially with regards to low frequency acoustic response. It's a matter of math. The math helps a larger room in the LF range.


Tnedator, listen to Dennis. This is a room of very good size and proportions. You can get a good-sized screen in there, and at least two rows with very good low frequency acoustic response.

Dennis is totally right to suggest horn designs in this room ... for one reason. As rooms get larger, they have more influence. To know which type of speaker to use, you must be able to anticipate or design for "critical distance." If your LCRs to primary/reference seat distance reaches or exceeds critical distance, you will have an imprecise front stage at that seat. Since home-sized theaters can be so easily over-absorbed with treatments, it becomes advantageous to choose speakers with higher directivity index (some call it controlled directivity) in rooms this size and larger. Horn designs (and good waveguides) have higher directivity therefore it is easy to keep the listener inside "critical distance." The challenge can be covering the primary seats smoothly with speakers with high directivity (especially smaller rooms with shorter throws). Those LCRs must be aimed (including KL-650-THX).

The theater in the attached photos is almost exactly the size of yours. I designed the basics, but used Dennis as a consultant, and to generate the plans. I chose the speakers and designed the acoustic treatments with another colleague to have broadband absorption but retain acoustic life and have a low noise floor. Klipsch KL-650-THX LCRs, KS-7800 THX surrounds (two on each side wall, and two on the back wall), and the two subs from that line. All were concealed behind fabric.

I've used that Klipsch line a lot and still have them at home (a much larger family room). They sound great for all types of sound. I'm sure the big 212s and such will out scream them, but that's not my benchmark in any room.


The Procellas would also be awesome, but pricey.



If it's a big room, these are okay. They have the ISO roll-off ("SMPTE/ISO2969 Curve X high frequency de-emphasis")... which is inappropriate for a smaller acoustic environment. That is not a problem in a large volume and/or acoustically lively room.
that room looks to be similar size to mine, ive searched high and low for the speakers for my ht within my budget but i keep coming back to the klipsch kl 650, how does it sound in that room?
The procellas are very pricey i was quoted £2100 for a single p8
I narrowed my selection down to the klipsch 650, qsc sc-1120 or the jbl 3677, something tells me the klipsch would suffice in my room @ 5.9m deep 4mwide 2.7m high
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post #155 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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that room looks to be similar size to mine, ive searched high and low for the speakers for my ht within my budget but i keep coming back to the klipsch kl 650, how does it sound in that room?
The procellas are very pricey i was quoted £2100 for a single p8
I narrowed my selection down to the klipsch 650, qsc sc-1120 or the jbl 3677, something tells me the klipsch would suffice in my room @ 5.9m deep 4mwide 2.7m high
PM me so that I don't bore everyone to sleep or sound like a fanboy.
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post #156 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 12:10 PM
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With two solid subs up front, you may find you don't need the balancing subs.

I have four 15's that I custom built myself running off a DSP amp and I could honestly gotten away with two of them and been happy (my room is larger than yours).
I agree, I was lucky enough to get away with 2 stacks of subs up front. I have 8 18" driver subs, and have tried any and all placements in the room - and I don't mean once or twice. I'm kind of OCD about this, so I have spent a ton of time with sub placement over the past 15 months or so and more than once I've measured every new position for the 8 subs in all my seating positions.

In the end the sweet spot seat measured the best with the subs stacked in the corners from floor to ceiling - that measured even better than having them in 2 stacks in the quarter positions along the front wall and better than some subs in the back of the room, some on the sides, some nearfield, etc., etc.

Now, when I had some subs in the back of the room the 2nd row and bar table area measured closer to the front row and sweet spot - but subjectively I like the bass better in the back row and bar table area with the subs stacked in the front corners. You get a better *slam* and tactile feel.

So in the end if they measure and sound/feel better in my main LP and measure worse BUT sound/feel better in the other seating areas then it's a no brainer for me even if the subs end up in a position that most say is horrible for smooth frequency response because it excites the peaks and nulls.


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post #157 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 12:21 PM
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Tnedator -

I HIGHLY recommend looking at Seatonsound and JTR for your subwoofer. Send a PM to Craig John, he has Triad Platinums (which are AWESOME) and he loves them of course but for him when it comes to subs he will only go with Seaton Submersives. He has 3 of them and I think loves them every bit as much as the Platinums and I've heard him say he is glad he didn't go with Triad subs.



You get so much for your money with Seaton and JTR, especially with subs. DIY gets you more for your money which is why I sold 2 Seaton Submersives for 8 DIY subs, but I did love those Submersives. My 8 is equal to roughly 5 of the Submersives I would guess since 2 of mine slightly outgun a single Submersive. Impressive since the Submersive is so "tiny".

If you need ported you can look at JTR Captivator 2400's or if you really want maximum output (and they sound great too) JTR Orbit Shifters have the most output of any sub you can buy. They are huge of course, but their horn design has so much output it's really impressive. 2 Orbit Shifters would crush my 8 18" subs above 20hz.


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post #158 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, FWIW, while I'm not making the purchase tomorrow (I still have a little time), this is what I'm pretty sure I'm going to do first my first phase.

KL-650 LCRs
KS-7800 surrounds & rear
Two subs that aren't Klipsch (need to figure out best bang for buck here, hopefully in the $1,500 give or take range per sub, including amp/dsp).
I'll drive it all with an Auddissey Pro receiver

Thanks for all the help and insight.

Later on, probably after things are clearer on Atmos and my wallet is healthy again, I'll ditch the KS-7800's and go to monopole surrounds/rear, and three more in-column subs and maybe ceiling speakers, and upgrade the equipment with amps and DSPs and a proper calibration.
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post #159 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Ok, FWIW, while I'm not making the purchase tomorrow (I still have a little time), this is what I'm pretty sure I'm going to do first my first phase.

KL-650 LCRs
KS-7800 surrounds & rear
Two subs that aren't Klipsch (need to figure out best bang for buck here, hopefully in the $1,500 give or take range per sub, including amp/dsp).
I'll drive it all with an Auddissey Pro receiver

Thanks for all the help and insight.

Later on, probably after things are clearer on Atmos and my wallet is healthy again, I'll ditch the KS-7800's and go to monopole surrounds/rear, and three more in-column subs and maybe ceiling speakers, and upgrade the equipment with amps and DSPs and a proper calibration.
Seems like a great plan. You could also start with one sub if it stretches past your $1500 per sub budget, but I would also consider PSA, SVS, Hsu, and Rythmik. You can easily get multiples in that price range that would be far superior to the Klipsch subs.

A pair of these would do nicely with a pro Audyssey receiver to EQ.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/colle...oducts/xv30fse
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post #160 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 04:40 PM
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Two subs that aren't Klipsch (need to figure out best bang for buck here, hopefully in the $1,500 give or take range per sub, including amp/dsp).
You can very easily beat this budget number. If you're not going the DIY route and are looking for a branded sub with high value, consider HSU Research's VTF-15. They are highly rated and can certainly fill your room with satisfying base. NYGiantsFan23 (Ralwingsway Theater) has a pair in his large theater room and loves them. Impressions from others have also been very positive.

HSU offers a dual VTF-15 package for $1709. With shipping you are just under $2K. More or less just plug and play. They're also quite popular on the secondary market if you go to sell them on when Phase II begins.
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post #161 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 04:42 PM
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You can very easily beat this budget number. If you're not going the DIY route and are looking for a branded sub with high value, consider HSU Research's VTF-15. They are highly rated and can certainly fill your room with satisfying base. NYGiantsFan23 (Ralwingsway Theater) has a pair in his large theater room and loves them. Impressions from others have also been very positive.

HSU offers a dual VTF-15 package for $1709. With shipping you are just under $2K. More or less just plug and play. They're also quite popular on the secondary market if you go to sell them on when Phase II begins.
I owned a VTF-15H. It is a solid sub. I think two of the PSA subs for under $2900 shipped is a better deal, but you are spot on with regards to resale. I sold mine within days of putting it up for sale and did not lose very much from the purchase price.
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post #162 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 06:51 PM
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I thought in the Atmos info I was reading, they weren't using wide sides, but instead front and rear ceiling (could be more than that, but that being the minimum recommended). I bet I was looking at what the first crop of receivers will support and not what will be coming.

I have an empty column halfway between the front row and screen, I bet that could be used for front side wides, and maybe wire and put fabric in place for 6 ceiling speakers. I'm guessing that's all I can do without some fairly major changes to my room design.
Some units will utilize the front wides in future generations. Currently, only the Trinnov processors allow for more than a 7.1.4 configuration... and one model looks like it will do all 34 discrete outputs.

With the front wides, they need to be angled towards the MLP. Your empty column would be an ideal place for them.

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post #163 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, spent the evening trying to do some research on subs, mostly the ones mentioned, but some others. And I thought LCR opinions were all over the place. My head is spinning, glad I'm not making a decision today. Read a bunch of threads, and reviews off of AVS, and several of the GTG's dedicated to subs.

Seems to be a ton of love for the Seaton Submersive HP, which is also more expensive. If I went this route, I would probably have to get one, and then maybe in short order at a slave to it. Not sure how one of these would stack up against two (both located up front, behind the screen) of the $1000-1500 range subs.

Seemed to be a little less info on the PSA30fse than some others.
The SVS PB-13 Ultra and Rythmik FV15HP seemed to mostly get high marks.
Seemed to be a little less love for the HSUs.

There were others of course, but those seemed to be mentioned the most.

Like I said, head spinning. A couple things that might help some of you guys point me in the right direction.

1. As mentioned, music (2 channel) is of zero concern, only movie sound tracks.
2. Extending way down deep, below 20hz with oomph, isn't my number one objective, because quite honestly even with the heavily treated room, I have some concerns about loud, deep bass escaping and bothering neighbors. I don't want to be the guy that has the neighbors hearing/feeling/sensing deep bass, like a teenager driving around town with his thumper going in the car.
3. What I want is good, clean movie sound, which obviously includes crisp, room filling bass, but I don't need it to feel it punch me in the chest and such. Hope that makes sense, I want/need it to be powerful and room filling, but I would be willing to sacrifice some of the ultra low for clarity above 20hz and to keep more of the bass in the room (hopefully, with the room build I'm getting, I'm more concerned about this than I should be).
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post #164 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 08:16 PM
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Orbit shifter

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #165 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Wow, spent the evening trying to do some research on subs, mostly the ones mentioned, but some others. And I thought LCR opinions were all over the place. My head is spinning, glad I'm not making a decision today. Read a bunch of threads, and reviews off of AVS, and several of the GTG's dedicated to subs.

Seems to be a ton of love for the Seaton Submersive HP, which is also more expensive. If I went this route, I would probably have to get one, and then maybe in short order at a slave to it. Not sure how one of these would stack up against two (both located up front, behind the screen) of the $1000-1500 range subs.

Seemed to be a little less info on the PSA30fse than some others.
The SVS PB-13 Ultra and Rythmik FV15HP seemed to mostly get high marks.
Seemed to be a little less love for the HSUs.

There were others of course, but those seemed to be mentioned the most.

Like I said, head spinning. A couple things that might help some of you guys point me in the right direction.

1. As mentioned, music (2 channel) is of zero concern, only movie sound tracks.
2. Extending way down deep, below 20hz with oomph, isn't my number one objective, because quite honestly even with the heavily treated room, I have some concerns about loud, deep bass escaping and bothering neighbors. I don't want to be the guy that has the neighbors hearing/feeling/sensing deep bass, like a teenager driving around town with his thumper going in the car.
3. What I want is good, clean movie sound, which obviously includes crisp, room filling bass, but I don't need it to feel it punch me in the chest and such. Hope that makes sense, I want/need it to be powerful and room filling, but I would be willing to sacrifice some of the ultra low for clarity above 20hz and to keep more of the bass in the room (hopefully, with the room build I'm getting, I'm more concerned about this than I should be).
SVS PB-13 Ultra and Rythmik FV15HP

Either of these choices would be quite good. You'd need multiples, of course.

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post #166 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Wow, spent the evening trying to do some research on subs, mostly the ones mentioned, but some others. And I thought LCR opinions were all over the place. My head is spinning, glad I'm not making a decision today. Read a bunch of threads, and reviews off of AVS, and several of the GTG's dedicated to subs.

Seems to be a ton of love for the Seaton Submersive HP, which is also more expensive. If I went this route, I would probably have to get one, and then maybe in short order at a slave to it. Not sure how one of these would stack up against two (both located up front, behind the screen) of the $1000-1500 range subs.

Seemed to be a little less info on the PSA30fse than some others.
The SVS PB-13 Ultra and Rythmik FV15HP seemed to mostly get high marks.
Seemed to be a little less love for the HSUs.

There were others of course, but those seemed to be mentioned the most.

Like I said, head spinning. A couple things that might help some of you guys point me in the right direction.

1. As mentioned, music (2 channel) is of zero concern, only movie sound tracks.
2. Extending way down deep, below 20hz with oomph, isn't my number one objective, because quite honestly even with the heavily treated room, I have some concerns about loud, deep bass escaping and bothering neighbors. I don't want to be the guy that has the neighbors hearing/feeling/sensing deep bass, like a teenager driving around town with his thumper going in the car.
3. What I want is good, clean movie sound, which obviously includes crisp, room filling bass, but I don't need it to feel it punch me in the chest and such. Hope that makes sense, I want/need it to be powerful and room filling, but I would be willing to sacrifice some of the ultra low for clarity above 20hz and to keep more of the bass in the room (hopefully, with the room build I'm getting, I'm more concerned about this than I should be).
Look for the CEA-2010 measurements. Based on your description, I think Seaton and JTR subs would be overkill. Honestly, consider starting with a single Rythmik or PB-13. But if it was me, based on what you described, you could go with a pair of these:
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv15se

This guy is a really trusted reviewer and posts here:
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...v-15-subwoofer

He loved the above PSA subs and measured them using the CEA-2010 guidelines.

They are going to have more than enough output based on your description above. And remember, you will be able to control the bass output. And don't mistake good clean bass with muddy distorted bass. In fact you may want to look at the PSA XS15. Sealed sub. Smaller. Less output, and a pair of them might be exactly what you are looking for.

That said, I don't think you are the bass head many of us are here, so I would not overspend if you are not looking for ultra low frequency and high output.
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post #167 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Another issue in sub selection is that I only have 28" from screen wall to front wall and about 2" will be burned on the treatment on the front wall.

So, that leaves me with only 26" of usable depth behind the screen. Can a front ported or sealed sub be placed basically up against the front wall? If not, how much Gap do I need?

Ideally, I don't want to move the screen farther into the room.
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post #168 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 09:54 PM
 
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...

Like I said, head spinning. A couple things that might help some of you guys point me in the right direction.

1. As mentioned, music (2 channel) is of zero concern, only movie sound tracks.
2. Extending way down deep, below 20hz with oomph, isn't my number one objective, because quite honestly even with the heavily treated room, I have some concerns about loud, deep bass escaping and bothering neighbors. I don't want to be the guy that has the neighbors hearing/feeling/sensing deep bass, like a teenager driving around town with his thumper going in the car.
3. What I want is good, clean movie sound, which obviously includes crisp, room filling bass, but I don't need it to feel it punch me in the chest and such. Hope that makes sense, I want/need it to be powerful and room filling, but I would be willing to sacrifice some of the ultra low for clarity above 20hz and to keep more of the bass in the room (hopefully, with the room build I'm getting, I'm more concerned about this than I should be).
If your only option is a pair of subs up the front, take a look at dual (sealed) Rythmik F25's for $3060 shipped. I'm a fan of Rythmik's DirectServo implementation and the range of controls on their amps is impressive too.

If you have some flexibilty in placement, a worthwhile alternative (although perhaps beyond your budget) is quad Rythmik F15's for $3870 shipped.

Also, at the moment you can pick up five Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX's for $2995 shipped. These are a well regarded downfiring version of Dr. Hsu's VTF-3 MK4 sub and are a great deal at that price. The variable port tuning might be a useful feature for you.
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post #169 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 10:19 PM
 
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Another issue in sub selection is that I only have 28" from screen wall to front wall and about 2" will be burned on the treatment on the front wall.

So, that leaves me with only 26" of usable depth behind the screen. Can a front ported or sealed sub be placed basically up against the front wall? If not, how much Gap do I need?

Ideally, I don't want to move the screen farther into the room.
Sorry T, saw this after I posted. Both Rythmiks will fit within the 26" depth facing forward. (Although sideways makes no difference if the acoustic source is at the same point.) The Outlaw will also not be a problem, but will fit better sideways

Yes, a sub can be placed right up to the wall. Assuming the plate amp is on the rear face though, you will need a few inches clearance for cables.
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post #170 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Another issue in sub selection is that I only have 28" from screen wall to front wall and about 2" will be burned on the treatment on the front wall.

So, that leaves me with only 26" of usable depth behind the screen. Can a front ported or sealed sub be placed basically up against the front wall? If not, how much Gap do I need?

Ideally, I don't want to move the screen farther into the room.
4x identical subs in each corner is ideal, IMO.
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post #171 of 228 Old 07-17-2014, 11:24 PM
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I know you say you don't want a lot of bass but you might be surprised how addicting low CLEAN bass is and eventually you will want more. Hmmm maybe best not to start down that road to begin with, you could end up like some of the crazy guys in the DIY forum....
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post #172 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I know you say you don't want a lot of bass but you might be surprised how addicting low CLEAN bass is and eventually you will want more. Hmmm maybe best not to start down that road to begin with, you could end up like some of the crazy guys in the DIY forum....
I was this way at one time. 18 months ago I was "blown" away by my three HSU VTF-15H's and thought any additional bass would be too much....

Today I have 8-18" SI subs and thought about one more.
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post #173 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Another issue in sub selection is that I only have 28" from screen wall to front wall and about 2" will be burned on the treatment on the front wall.

So, that leaves me with only 26" of usable depth behind the screen. Can a front ported or sealed sub be placed basically up against the front wall? If not, how much Gap do I need?

Ideally, I don't want to move the screen farther into the room.
Marty cube would fit perfectly; load it with uxl18. 4 will pound senselessly compared to a mfg made sub for the price ($2400). Not even a contest.

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post #174 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I know you say you don't want a lot of bass but you might be surprised how addicting low CLEAN bass is and eventually you will want more. Hmmm maybe best not to start down that road to begin with, you could end up like some of the crazy guys in the DIY forum....
I might not have been clear on that, it's not that I don't "want" a lot of bass, it's that I want to be a good neighbor. I'm going down the room treatment route, not only to have a great sounding room, but to keep the sound in the room (the same treatment to keep the noise floor low, are the things to keep the sound in).

That's the reason I talked about ultra-deep bass. I know some strive for getting down into the low teens or lower, even at times willing to sacrifice some clarity for the absolute loudest and lowest bass possible. That's clear reading through all of the subwoofer threads.

So, I want good bass, I just don't want the neighbors feeling my bass like when a teen driving down the road with his trunk loaded with sub drivers. I want to "feel it" when the T-rex is walking or the Black Hawk Down helicopter is flying over, I just don't want my neighbor to "feel it." That was my main point, along with clarity of sound being more important than volume of sound. Again, reading through the threads, it's clear that some are willing to sacrifice some clarity for the ultimate in SPL.
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post #175 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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If your only option is a pair of subs up the front, take a look at dual (sealed) Rythmik F25's for $3060 shipped. I'm a fan of Rythmik's DirectServo implementation and the range of controls on their amps is impressive too.

If you have some flexibilty in placement, a worthwhile alternative (although perhaps beyond your budget) is quad Rythmik F15's for $3870 shipped.
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4x identical subs in each corner is ideal, IMO.
Initially, my only option will be two subs (or three lesser priced for that matter) up front. This is primarily due to room design. I will have no exposed subs, and no wall penetrations (besides hvac/wiring behind soffits/columns), so placing subs around the room isn't an option initially. Longer term, I will add three balancing subs (one on each side and one in the back) that will go in the columns, they will either have to be small subs like the Procella P10Si or more likely in wall subs (that won't really be in the wall, but instead in the 7" deep column, so no wall penetration).

The reasons for not doing it now, is more about not wanting to go down the amp/DSP route than anything. Once I start mixing two full powered subs up front, and three different passive subs in the walls, it not only raises the costs, but also the complexity of properly calibrating the room. I'll do that in phase II.
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post #176 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
I might not have been clear on that, it's not that I don't "want" a lot of bass, it's that I want to be a good neighbor. I'm going down the room treatment route, not only to have a great sounding room, but to keep the sound in the room (the same treatment to keep the noise floor low, are the things to keep the sound in).

That's the reason I talked about ultra-deep bass. I know some strive for getting down into the low teens or lower, even at times willing to sacrifice some clarity for the absolute loudest and lowest bass possible. That's clear reading through all of the subwoofer threads.

So, I want good bass, I just don't want the neighbors feeling my bass like when a teen driving down the road with his trunk loaded with sub drivers. I want to "feel it" when the T-rex is walking or the Black Hawk Down helicopter is flying over, I just don't want my neighbor to "feel it." That was my main point, along with clarity of sound being more important than volume of sound. Again, reading through the threads, it's clear that some are willing to sacrifice some clarity for the ultimate in SPL.
ULF bass at decent levels you'll notice have no respect for sound proofing. None. I don't care if you buy a semi truck of green glue and do 4 layers of drywall. Expect some sound leakage.

If it's enough to disturb a neighbor on another house ? Idk. But it won't be contained.

In order to appreciate or even realize ULF bass (20hz and down) it will need to be at a decent SPL level. Your ability to hear or sense it is dependent upon this. At the level you'd appreciate or enjoy it then it will make itself known to others too. You won't probably know the extent of this being a problem till it's happening though.

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post #177 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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ULF bass at decent levels you'll notice have no respect for sound proofing. None. I don't care if you buy a semi truck of green glue and do 4 layers of drywall. Expect some sound leakage.

If it's enough to disturb a neighbor on another house ? Idk. But it won't be contained.

In order to appreciate or even realize ULF bass (20hz and down) it will need to be at a decent SPL level. Your ability to hear or sense it is dependent upon this. At the level you'd appreciate or enjoy it then it will make itself known to others too. You won't probably know the extent of this being a problem till it's happening though.
I understand, hence my original comment about the bass in the teens.
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post #178 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 08:18 AM
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I understand, hence my original comment about the bass in the teens.
Where is this (media room) room located in your house? Do you have shared walls with your neighbors (condo/townhouse?)

I have a decently treated room (basement) and I can play pretty flat to 15hz in my room with my 4 subs and, even with it cranked, it is a non-issue with neighbors. The bedrooms are two floors above, and even at night when if I crank up a movie I have never woken any of my three kids up. Point being, you may be overanalyzing this unless you are talking about shared walls or having something like 10+ 18" subs in your house.
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post #179 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
I might not have been clear on that, it's not that I don't "want" a lot of bass, it's that I want to be a good neighbor. I'm going down the room treatment route, not only to have a great sounding room, but to keep the sound in the room (the same treatment to keep the noise floor low, are the things to keep the sound in).

That's the reason I talked about ultra-deep bass. I know some strive for getting down into the low teens or lower, even at times willing to sacrifice some clarity for the absolute loudest and lowest bass possible. That's clear reading through all of the subwoofer threads.

So, I want good bass, I just don't want the neighbors feeling my bass like when a teen driving down the road with his trunk loaded with sub drivers. I want to "feel it" when the T-rex is walking or the Black Hawk Down helicopter is flying over, I just don't want my neighbor to "feel it." That was my main point, along with clarity of sound being more important than volume of sound. Again, reading through the threads, it's clear that some are willing to sacrifice some clarity for the ultimate in SPL.
If you have an Erksine design, taking into account SPL and sound leakage with properly balanced speakers and subs for the room (not too much, not too little... just right), and the contractor doesn't muck it up, and you still disturb your neighbors... then you will be playing movies loud enough to have permanent hearing damage. And that would be just plain stupid.

Some of these bass heads will rue the day they chased the "nth degree" of bass response and reference levels. They'll be practically deaf come retirement age. Home theater rooms are not large commercial auditoriums.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!

Last edited by Dan Hitchman; 07-18-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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post #180 of 228 Old 07-18-2014, 10:00 AM
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have you seen this option? the sub 3x12 http://www.xtzsound.com/cinema-series you might catch the pre order price which is very good, they are being released in aug/sep uk price is about £----- i think
Sorry but $2500us for one of those subs? ...lol


His money could easily be better spent on other subs.

Last edited by jbrown15; 07-18-2014 at 10:11 AM.
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