The OFFICIAL Pioneer Dolby Atmos Speaker Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 721 Old 07-08-2014, 10:38 AM
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If we are talking about putting things on top of speakers to make it domestically acceptable, then I think it will probably have to look like a plant pot...;-)

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Perhaps Pioneer-KK would be interested?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/...speakers_x.htm

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post #272 of 721 Old 07-08-2014, 10:47 AM
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Electronic Control Unit.
As strange as it may seems, I buy my car depending on the sound system quality. Sound is very important thing to me but with the engine's ECU, HVAC, etc linked directly to the head unit, I got no choice but doing things the backwards way.

Outside of that, the only things I can change will only be speaker drivers

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post #273 of 721 Old 07-08-2014, 11:53 AM
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How do the Atmos speakers behave in 2 ch music listening? Are the extra drivers not activated at this point?
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post #274 of 721 Old 07-08-2014, 11:54 AM
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They are not. The speaker enclosure comes with 2 sets of speaker terminals. One set for the regular front firing drivers, one set for the top firing drivers .

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post #275 of 721 Old 07-08-2014, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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They are not.
..but one hopes the receiver will have an Extra Extra Stereo setting to send each channel up as well as around.

My SP-FS91-LR based bedroom theater takes good advantage of Extra Stereo on my VSX-521-K.

My new home theater will be a zero gravity sphere, the membrane of which will be both a continuous speaker surface and polymorphic screen, but I'm not buying until at least the third generation.
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post #276 of 721 Old 07-09-2014, 09:11 AM
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Hello Chris

Will the Pioneer SC-89 be THX ULTRA2 certified and if not why did Pioneer drop the certification?

Also is there any white paper on Class D3 amplification, I am interested in switching to digital amp to save energy, and generate less heat but don't want to trade Audio Quality for my seven KEF LS50
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post #277 of 721 Old 07-09-2014, 09:58 AM
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Any projection as to how long it will take before we see a non Atmos version of these Elite speakers? As I have a cathedral ceiling, I am realizing that I will not be able to make full use of the current version but I am still considering these and just not using the up firing speakers, though this seems like a bit of a waste.
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post #278 of 721 Old 07-09-2014, 01:34 PM
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I was wondering how the towers or bookshelves would sound with the top speaker powered on all the time along with the normal front facing speakers. Would it add to the spaciousness similar to a bipolar speaker?
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post #279 of 721 Old 07-09-2014, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
As strange as it may seems, I buy my car depending on the sound system quality. Sound is very important thing to me but with the engine's ECU, HVAC, etc linked directly to the head unit, I got no choice but doing things the backwards way.

Outside of that, the only things I can change will only be speaker drivers
The Acura RLX Krell system is my favorite so far for OEM systems. But the user interface on the infotainment is really annoying. Jaguar Meridian systems are good too but the pure touch screen setup on a luxury car is disappointing.
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post #280 of 721 Old 07-09-2014, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Hello Chris

Will the Pioneer SC-89 be THX ULTRA2 certified and if not why did Pioneer drop the certification?

Also is there any white paper on Class D3 amplification, I am interested in switching to digital amp to save energy, and generate less heat but don't want to trade Audio Quality for my seven KEF LS50
If your existing AVR has pre-outs, why not purchase a separate amp? If energy efficient amps are important, Nuforce makes two 8-channel versions that look interesting. The MCA-18 (55W/channel) and MCA-20 (150W/channel). Details of the larger unit can be found here: https://www.nuforce.com/index.php?op...20&Itemid=2650

Believe the number of amp channels in AVRs are limited from 5 to 9 channels. Most of these amps cannot handle 4 ohm or below loads. I'm thinking of pairing the Nuforce with a good Atmos receiver that's got pre-outs for the full 13 channel use in the main zone. There would be enough amp channels left over for Zone 2/3 use...

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post #281 of 721 Old 07-10-2014, 09:50 AM
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One or More Subwoofers

Given the recent discussion about subwoofers, Sound and Vision had this piece:

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-or-two
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post #282 of 721 Old 07-10-2014, 10:40 PM
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For those who might've missed it, here's a link to AJ on Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks podcast from a few hours ago:

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/214

For a while, there's just basic Atmos info. and info about Pioneer's new products (so, at first, some of it may be "old hat" to some of us, but still presented well). But, it was particularly interesting, later, to hear Andrew talk about how he got motivated to really get into the project and produce a superior loudspeaker system to match Atmos's potential; the design choices and parameters, some of which are mutually fortuitous (e.g. CST development for both front and height); the CST development itself (which I'm most excited about); and just generally AJ's firm belief (along with SW's), in his no-B.S. way, that Atmos in the home is a serious evolutionary step towards heightened HT realism--and, one hopes, heightened music-venue realism for music-based performance, too.

AJ stresses that he designed these to be serious speakers...for music, firstly. With the pinpoint imaging I expect from the CST in terms of front soundstage 3D realism, plus the ambiance of the recorded reverberant space delivered via Atmos's steering and (matching) surround and ceiling speakers...man, I'm so hoping the programming/media options include lots of Atmos music-venue content...but, hey, I'm hoping most of all that these new speakers are just fantastic for plain jane stereo, too. IIx and z. 5.1. Whatever. Cake and eat it, too.

P.S. The video is worth watching, alone, for the money shot of AJ hefting the crossovers for inspection. Serious coils. Serious crossover networks. Serious speakers. Also, the cutaway demo of the CST, if you haven't seen it, with the dual neodymium magnets, drivers and surrounds, spider and basket laid bare, is cool; love to see a big blowup.

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post #283 of 721 Old 07-10-2014, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Hello Chris

Will the Pioneer SC-89 be THX ULTRA2 certified and if not why did Pioneer drop the certification?

Also is there any white paper on Class D3 amplification, I am interested in switching to digital amp to save energy, and generate less heat but don't want to trade Audio Quality for my seven KEF LS50
Hi WSE,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

We have decided not to support THX on this years receivers for a couple of reasons.

1. Price. This year we have added quite a few new features (HDMI 2.0, new Higher Speed DACS, Roku Ready, Dolby Atmos, etc). to the receivers that have added quite a bit of cost and we have kept the same retail price. Every year I have the task of offsetting the cost of new features by removing lesser used/relevant features (Not saying that THX is not relevant, however it has become less relevant over the past few years).

2. Engineering Resources. The addition of all of the above features required a huge amount of engineering resources. We simply did not have enough resources and time for the certification process.

In a perfect world I would have kept THX certification, unfortunately it just was not possible for this year.


I do not have a white paper on our class D3 amplification, however I do have some good information. I will see if I can get a technical reference guide for our SC class receivers posted on our website.

Thanks,

Chris Walker
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post #284 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 09:17 AM
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willdao-

Thanks for posting the interview. It was very informative, and answered many questions.

It was also great, in an era of stridency and self vaunting, to see two gentleman enthusiastically sharing information on their favorite subject. And really, sharing it with us.

We can count Andrew as one of our most valuable British imports. (Don't forget the 60s!)
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post #285 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 09:26 AM
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willdao-

Thanks for posting the interview. It was very informative, and answered many questions.

It was also great, in an era of stridency and self vaunting, to see two gentleman enthusiastically sharing information on their favorite subject. And really, sharing it with us.

We can count Andrew as one of our most valuable British imports. (Don't forget the 60s!)
It is because of Andrew that I am considering these speakers over more expensive speakers for some of my projects, even though I may not be about to use the top firing speakers.
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post #286 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 09:33 AM
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For those who might've missed it, here's a link to AJ on Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks podcast from a few hours ago:

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/214
Thanks. Definitely recommended.

It was interesting to find out from the interview that the up firing speakers are spec'd down to 180 Hz per Dolby, so I assume the mid and low-bass are rolled off. That would eliminate much of the omnidirectional frequencies.

Also, note that Andrew actually preferred the sound of the up firing speakers to the in ceiling speakers, so many assumptions that the up firing speakers are a compromise may be need to be reconsidered.

I'm looking forward to actual reviews of the production speakers.
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post #287 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 09:42 AM
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It was interesting to find out from the interview that the up firing speakers are spec'd down to 180 Hz per Dolby, so I assume the mid and low-bass are rolled off. That would eliminate much of the omnidirectional frequencies.
No, it would NOT "eliminate much of the omnidirectional frequencies". The radiation pattern of a 4" driver is typically more like this:



(Source: http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zub...nd/fr10_4.html)

It's perfectly omnidirectional way over 1000Hz. It will always represent at least two sound sources (direct radiation and ceiling reflection).

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post #288 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:18 AM
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Also, note that Andrew actually preferred the sound of the up firing speakers to the in ceiling speakers, so many assumptions that the up firing speakers are a compromise may be need to be reconsidered.
He's not the only one...

I know of one mixer who mixed one of the best Atmos "pieces" to date and he prefers them too...

It's more diffuse and enveloping in many ways... in a good way.

I am happily going with the Pioneers for my setup (where I can't do the in ceilings...)

Again, it may not be for everyone, but it's a great solution that Dolby has come up with for a great percentage of people who want to upgrade without drilling holes in their ceiling...
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post #289 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:27 AM
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I know of one mixer who mixed one of the best Atmos "pieces" to date and he prefers them too...

It's more diffuse and enveloping in many ways... in a good way.
You guys should get rid of all the acoustic treatments in dubbing stages and "upgrade" to omni speakers. Will certainly sound more diffuse and enveloping...

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Again, it may not be for everyone, but it's a great solution that Dolby has come up with for a great percentage of people who want to upgrade without drilling holes in their ceiling...
I agree.

Markus

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post #290 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:30 AM
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No, it would NOT "eliminate much of the omnidirectional frequencies". The radiation pattern of a 4" driver is typically more like this:



(Source: http://www.visaton.de/en/chassis_zub...nd/fr10_4.html)

It's perfectly omnidirectional way over 1000Hz. It will always represent at least two sound sources (direct radiation and ceiling reflection).
That doesn't represent omnidirectionality, only hemispherical omnidirectionality.

But your point is still valid, apparently there is some kind of secret sauce way that it's handled digitally in the AVR. I can't really think of way to do that but that certainly doesn't mean it there is none. I guess we will just need to hear it and see.

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post #291 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:33 AM
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But your point is still valid, apparently there is some kind of secret sauce way that it's handled digitally in the AVR. I can't really think of way to do that but that certainly doesn't mean it there is none. I guess we will just need to hear it and see.
Yes, we will need to hear it and see. In the meantime everybody remain steady in your belief into unicorns...

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post #292 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:41 AM
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You guys should get rid of all the acoustic treatments in dubbing stages and "upgrade" to omni speakers. Will certainly sound more diffuse and enveloping...
And who do your propose pays for that, all of the hundreds of other dubbing stages and tens of thousands of movie theaters all over the world?

While there may be better solutions for almost every part of sound production, and reproduction, out there, what we have works and can produce spectacular, and fairly predictable, results.
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post #293 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:43 AM
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He's not the only one...

I know of one mixer who mixed one of the best Atmos "pieces" to date and he prefers them too...

It's more diffuse and enveloping in many ways... in a good way.

I am happily going with the Pioneers for my setup (where I can't do the in ceilings...)

Again, it may not be for everyone, but it's a great solution that Dolby has come up with for a great percentage of people who want to upgrade without drilling holes in their ceiling...
I think these new speaker types will not be that popular here. Maybe I'm wrong but the concept really seems convenience based.
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post #294 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:45 AM
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Thanks. Definitely recommended.

It was interesting to find out from the interview that the up firing speakers are spec'd down to 180 Hz per Dolby, so I assume the mid and low-bass are rolled off. That would eliminate much of the omnidirectional frequencies.

Also, note that Andrew actually preferred the sound of the up firing speakers to the in ceiling speakers, so many assumptions that the up firing speakers are a compromise may be need to be reconsidered.

I'm looking forward to actual reviews of the production speakers.
Will the spec have full range signals possible for ALL speakers? (Like 7.1)

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post #295 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 10:49 AM
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I think these new speaker types will not be that popular here. Maybe I'm wrong but the concept really seems convenience based.
There aren't many out there that can install ceiling speakers Jeff..

It costs a lot of money, the room may not support it, etc..

You might have the resources and motivation, but there are a lot of those who don't.

I imagine it wouldn't work in your room.

While it may not be a popular idea here, at least they offered a solution..

And again, I've heard it, and think it will work well for those with the proper room setup and inability to fly speakers overhead...

If they hadn't developed Elevation, I can see all the posts of "what do you mean Dolby wants me to put speakers in my ceiling.. are they crazy..."
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post #296 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 11:01 AM
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And who do your propose pays for that, all of the hundreds of other dubbing stages and tens of thousands of movie theaters all over the world?
The consumer, as always

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post #297 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 11:06 AM
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I think these new speaker types will not be that popular here. Maybe I'm wrong but the concept really seems convenience based.
You might say practicality rather than convenience, although both may be the impetus to great invention. There are many great, and better ideas born out of "convenience."

Somehow when Andrew Jones gives his opinion about how it actually sounds, particularly given his skepticism about the concept in the beginning, I tend to believe him.

Given that there will be a move towards Atmos, particularly among people wanting heightened home theater realism, I would think that they would sell more of these than ceiling speakers.

Time will, of course, tell.
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post #298 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 11:08 AM
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The consumer, as always
Well said...and true.
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post #299 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 12:03 PM
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You guys should get rid of all the acoustic treatments in dubbing stages and "upgrade" to omni speakers.
Why do you take things to extremes when someone mentions more envelopment? More doesn't mean at the expense of everything else.
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post #300 of 721 Old 07-11-2014, 12:06 PM
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There is no removal of acoustic treatments necessary if you use ceiling speakers. Also the speakers used are NOT omni directional. Even dipolar and bipolar speakers are a "no-no".

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