The OFFICIAL Pioneer Dolby Atmos Speaker Thread - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 142Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 587 Old 06-23-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
AJCxZ0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Virginia, U.S.A.
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 37
The OFFICIAL Pioneer Dolby Atmos Speaker Thread

Announced today is Pioneer's Dolby Atmos home theater collection including the Andrew Jones-designed Elite speakers.

Image provided by and thread created at the kind prompting of Chris Walker, Pioneer Electronics
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rear Panel.jpg (14.5 KB, 285 views)
hyghwayman and Nikwasi like this.
AJCxZ0 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 587 Old 06-23-2014, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Nikwasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nantahala
Posts: 423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Thanks for the startup!
Nikwasi is offline  
post #3 of 587 Old 06-23-2014, 09:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Concentric drivers?

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 
DS-21 is offline  
post #4 of 587 Old 06-23-2014, 09:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
Concentric drivers?
Seems so
KLee is offline  
post #5 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 78
According to Chris Walker the new speaker are utilizing concentric drivers, which Andrew Jones helped refine and develop at KEF, and which Pioneer worked with decades ago.
taichi4 is offline  
post #6 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 10:08 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 301
More pictures please
wse is online now  
post #7 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
According to Chris Walker the new speakers are utilizing concentric drivers, which Andrew Jones helped refine and develop at KEF, and which Pioneer worked with decades ago.
I don't think of the mid-late 2000s* as "decades ago".









*Early-mid 2010s if one counts TAD.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 

Last edited by DS-21; 06-24-2014 at 06:18 PM.
DS-21 is offline  
post #8 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 07:01 PM
Senior Member
 
BuddTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
They DO LOOK NICE!!!


Cannot wait to find out how they sound, and what the "drive out" price is!
BuddTX is offline  
post #9 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 07:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 12,076
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked: 839
Those arent them.
Bond 007 is online now  
post #10 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 07:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
DS-21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post
They DO LOOK NICE!!!
Sorry for disappointing. Those are older Pioneer speakers with concentric drivers.

Unless the prices are stratospheric don't expect that grade of cabinet on the Atmos ones.

The top speakers are the old Pio S-1EX. See Prof. Rubinson's 2007 Stereophile review. The current TAD Evolution One is more-or-less a Pio S-1EX Mk. II.

The middle ones are the old Pio S-4EX. They're discussed, along with the rest of the line, in this older AVS thread.

The bottom ones are the S-iw691L in-wall. See this review from S&V. Or the "multichannel music *** system" link below.

--
"In many cases there aren’t two sides unless one side is 'reality' and the other is 'nonsense.'" - Phil Plait
Serious Audio Blog 
Multichannel music (and video) urban loft living room system 

Last edited by DS-21; 06-24-2014 at 07:32 PM.
DS-21 is offline  
post #11 of 587 Old 06-24-2014, 08:50 PM
Senior Member
 
BuddTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Houston TX
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Bummer!


They are nice looking, but for 6000/pair or 9000/pair (2006 prices) they better be nice!
BuddTX is offline  
post #12 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 05:23 AM
Newbie
 
Michael Rauh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Live on Pioneer Site

The new Atmos line is live on Pioneer's website. No pricing listed for the speakers though.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home
zieglj01 and SyntheticShrimp like this.
Michael Rauh is offline  
post #13 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 06:16 AM
Senior Member
 
SyntheticShrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Thanks for posting that.

They dont strike me as very expensive speakers, but instead upgraded versions of the affordable models.

I'm curious how much cabinet bracing was done. That was always the weakness of the affordable model.
SyntheticShrimp is online now  
post #14 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If I am reading it correctly, the Elite center channel is a 3-way design, which makes me really happy

At any rate, here are the details I could find about the concentric driver



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer Electronics
Its Concentric Driver Hits the Spot.
At the heart of the Elite Home Theater Speaker System is the CST (Coherent Source Transducer), a revelation in accurate sound. This driver dramatically reduces interference between the midrange and tweeter, precisely controlling sound directivity at all frequencies and ensuring that direct and reflected sound arrive at the listening position with identical timing and timbre. It does this with a 1-inch tweeter positioned centrally at the apex of the 4-inch midrange drive unit. Unlike a coaxial driver, which positions its high-frequency driver further forward of a larger cone, the CST concentric design eliminates audible time domain errors which cannot be avoided when drivers are not aligned on the same axial or vertical plane. Such distortion is readily apparent but is virtually eliminated in the sophisticated, proprietary CST used in the Elite Home Theater Speaker range.

The 1-inch soft-dome tweeter delivers smooth, extended response, positioned in the center of an aluminum midrange cone that exhibits true pistonic action and eliminates break-up modes within its range of operation. Cone profile is optimized for both midrange performance and wave-guide directivity. A matching horn around the tweeter seamlessly integrates both drivers and creates a continuous surface for the expansion of sound waves. Driving both transducers are dual Neodymium magnets that provide powerful and stable flux fields in their gaps. The midrange cone terminates in a double-roll surround designed to minimize wave front disruption while also allowing maximum excursion of the midrange cone.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eakers/SP-EC73
KLee is offline  
post #15 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 06:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rlindo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 4,739
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 135
Here are the alleged prices:

SP-EBS73-LR Bookshelf Speakers - $749 (Pair)

SP-EFS73 Floorstanding Speaker - $699 (Each)

SP-EC73 Center Channel Speaker - $399

SW-E10 Subwoofer - $599


I'm curious how necessary it is to have a 8-14 foot ceiling height like it says on the webpage. Does this also mean the speakers should all be at ear height? My home theater room doesn't have an 8 foot high ceiling and my speakers aren't at ear height so I'm wondering how well these speakers would work for me.

ROB
rlindo is online now  
post #16 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 06:59 AM
Senior Member
 
wyattroa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lombard, IL
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Maybe this is a dumb question. But, this design with the driver at the top aiming towards the ceiling. Wont this give the same effect as the axial qs8? Or am I wrong..still learning the ropes with speakers in general, but it seams like the same concept to me. Or mince it has the tweeter on the sides and an extra driver on the bottom it would be very different.

Sub build http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...et-r-done.html
Center - JBL LC2
Mains - JBL L820
Surrounds - JBL L820
Sub -Updating to Duals with UXL-18"s A bit different
wyattroa is offline  
post #17 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 07:08 AM
Advanced Member
 
TCARCIO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Massachussetts
Posts: 848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Well now to get Atmos we need to get a new receiver and now new speakers in order to have it work correctly. That isn't happening for me.
TCARCIO is offline  
post #18 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 07:11 AM
Senior Member
 
SyntheticShrimp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyattroa View Post
Maybe this is a dumb question. But, this design with the driver at the top aiming towards the ceiling. Wont this give the same effect as the axial qs8? Or am I wrong..still learning the ropes with speakers in general, but it seams like the same concept to me. Or mince it has the tweeter on the sides and an extra driver on the bottom it would be very different.
These have separate inputs for the new drivers. A different signal is fed to the height drivers that has adjustable delay and SPL.

Also I think the intention with those Axiom surrounds is to disperse sound into the room with an ambiguous location. Whether or not that works is another discussion. The idea with these Atmos speakers is to replace traditional ceiling speakers by angling the new driver so that it reflects off of the ceiling and arrives at the listeners.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603
SyntheticShrimp is online now  
post #19 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 07:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fatbottom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,616
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 341 Post(s)
Liked: 176
The number of speakers is getting a bit daft.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

fatbottom is offline  
post #20 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 07:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
TCARCIO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Massachussetts
Posts: 848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Ok I have a question. How will Bipole/monopole/dipole surrounds work with Atmos. I won't be changing anything in the near future but I am curious.
TCARCIO is offline  
post #21 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 12:12 PM
Senior Member
 
coli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Will be interesting how the new bookshelf compares to the KEF LS50.
coli is offline  
post #22 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 12:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
action_jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post
Well now to get Atmos we need to get a new receiver and now new speakers in order to have it work correctly. That isn't happening for me.
You can use the speakers that you have now, but will just have to purchase some height speakers. To get the optimum effect would be to get 4 speakers mounted to the ceiling or in the ceiling. This is in addition to the 7.1 speakers that you already have and will give you a 7.1.4 setup. The speakers that Pioneer is offering are aimed towards people that don't want to be bothered with installing additional speakers on the ceiling and would rather bounce the sound off the ceiling. This is like how a sound bar bounces the sound off of the walls to achieve a simulated surround experience.

Epson Home Cinema 3010 Projector____Paradigm 9SE MK II Main LR
Yamaha RX-V667 AVR_______________Paradigm CC-270 V.3 Center
Emotiva UPA-5 Amplifier______________Paradigm PS-1200 Sub
Sony BDP-570 Blu Ray_______________Polk bookshelf for Surrounds
action_jackson is online now  
post #23 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 02:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
TCARCIO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Massachussetts
Posts: 848
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post
You can use the speakers that you have now, but will just have to purchase some height speakers. To get the optimum effect would be to get 4 speakers mounted to the ceiling or in the ceiling. This is in addition to the 7.1 speakers that you already have and will give you a 7.1.4 setup. The speakers that Pioneer is offering are aimed towards people that don't want to be bothered with installing additional speakers on the ceiling and would rather bounce the sound off the ceiling. This is like how a sound bar bounces the sound off of the walls to achieve a simulated surround experience.
Ok, That is good to know. But I have 4 surrounds that are bipole/monopole/dipole so what setting do they need to be on if they will be used?
TCARCIO is offline  
post #24 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 04:46 PM
Advanced Member
 
Walkamo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 552
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post
Ok, That is good to know. But I have 4 surrounds that are bipole/monopole/dipole so what setting do they need to be on if they will be used?
Here is Andrew and his new Children
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMAG0056.jpg (176.0 KB, 209 views)
Walkamo is offline  
post #25 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 04:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
taichi4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,317
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Should we call him Pop or Da?
FilmMixer likes this.
taichi4 is offline  
post #26 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Reefdvr27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 2,440
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked: 346
Atmos speakers, now that is funny.
Reefdvr27 is online now  
post #27 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 05:21 PM
Senior Member
 
esappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Poulsbo, Washington
Posts: 242
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCARCIO View Post
Ok, That is good to know. But I have 4 surrounds that are bipole/monopole/dipole so what setting do they need to be on if they will be used?
Nobody is quite sure yet. There is some consensus that monopoles all around would be best for Atmos and object based audio because you are supposed to localize the sounds. Dipole surround speakers were intended to make the surround effects harder to localize (aka diffuse) on purpose to help simulate cinema surround (which are typically several monopoles down each side of the auditorium) in the home environment. After discrete 5.1 formats became available (DD & DTS) the lines blurred on the topic of surround speakers. Depending on who you ask you will get different answers as to what type of speaker was best for surrounds. Some people like it staying diffuse, and others like to be able to pinpoint where the sounds are coming from. When the 5.1 audio formats hit the market (SACD & DVD-Audio) the general consensus from my experience was that most people preferred monopoles as the surround speaker. The bigger problem there was that while 'typical' positioning for side surrounds for movies is 90-110 degrees, a lot of people (myself included) liked going out to about 135 degrees when listening to 5.1 music. Then you add in surround back speakers for 7.1 audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA) and again depending on who you talk to as to what is recommended for those. In my experience again, while I have seen people use dipoles and/or bipoles for both side and back surrounds, the majority of the people I know use dipoles for side surrounds and monopoles for rear surrounds (this is what I personally have). So I too am very curious how dipoles will fit into the Atmos equation. If you have the ability to select which method your surround speakers play back, you should be golden, but best GUESS at this point would be monopole. Hopefully we get these answers soon.
TCARCIO likes this.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
esappy is offline  
post #28 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 05:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
filecat13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 87
MiGosh! Talk about cheapening a brand. I'm writing about the Dolby Atmos brand, not Pioneer in this case.

Usually it takes a little while for a technological innovation like Atmos to work its way into the consumer market, first at the high end then eventually to the bottom, but this seems to be a direct leap to the bottom.

Atmos systems are installed in carefully sized and treated environments with a lot of technical expertise, but hey! now I can buy an "Atmos" system-in-a-box so to speak and stick it in my living room. Somehow I'm not seeing the "bounce the heights off the ceiling" as part of the original design.

Sorry if that assessment seems harsh, but...

What I can afford, when I can afford it...

Last edited by filecat13; 06-25-2014 at 09:30 PM.
filecat13 is offline  
post #29 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 05:46 PM
Member
 
The Murderousone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post
Here is Andrew and his new Children
Can you give us any new info or price on the speakers?
The Murderousone is offline  
post #30 of 587 Old 06-25-2014, 06:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,519
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 496
Only monopole speakers are permitted for an Atmos system presently. Dipoles/bipoles and others do not work for an Atmos system. For this I am glad, because perhaps will will help hasten bipole/dipoles long-overdue and richly deserved death.
shadyJ is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
andrew jones , dolby atmos , Pioneer

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off