Need high WAF speakers for HT. (B&W, Def Tech, Focal, MartinLogan, or…) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 01:08 PM
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Hello. I was in the same position a few years ago. This is the thread I started to get input from the AVS community about small home theater speakers - you may find it helpful:
Focal Dome vs. Morel Soundspot vs. Cambridge Audio Minx

I ended up going with the Paradigm MilleniaOne. Based on your budget, you could buy two of the speakers now for $499, and add more speakers later. I have been very happy with the speakers - they are very small so they fit with my decor, but they sound great. I bought the matching sub due to space constraints, but a larger and less expensive sub would also do nicely.

You will need to go to an authorized retailer, which is generally a high-end brick-and-mortar AV store. Ask for discounts as well - it should not be hard to negotiate 10% or so off of MSRP.

Feel free to ask me any questions, since I think my experience was similar to yours in terms of the target products. Good luck!
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post #62 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo1 View Post
Hello. I was in the same position a few years ago. This is the thread I started to get input from the AVS community about small home theater speakers - you may find it helpful:
Focal Dome vs. Morel Soundspot vs. Cambridge Audio Minx

I ended up going with the Paradigm MilleniaOne. Based on your budget, you could buy two of the speakers now for $499, and add more speakers later. I have been very happy with the speakers - they are very small so they fit with my decor, but they sound great. I bought the matching sub due to space constraints, but a larger and less expensive sub would also do nicely.

You will need to go to an authorized retailer, which is generally a high-end brick-and-mortar AV store. Ask for discounts as well - it should not be hard to negotiate 10% or so off of MSRP.

Feel free to ask me any questions, since I think my experience was similar to yours in terms of the target products. Good luck!
Thanks for posting. These look like fantastic speakers. I looked into them earlier, but didn't realize they came in white (which is a big plus for me). Now that I see they do, I am definitely considering them. It looks like Sound & Vision goes back and forth between naming the MilleniaOne and the B&W M-1 HT systems their product of the year. They are both the same price per speaker. I'm guessing that these are both top notch speakers, but some things about the MelleniaOne bother me and I'm hoping you can offer some insight.

There seems to be a large contradiction between the S&V test graphs here: and here http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-page-4. I wonder which one is more representative of the speakers actual performance.

When you ran your AVR's room correction, what did it set your speakers crossovers to? Paradigm claims a frequency response of +/- 2 dB 120 Hz - 20 kHz. I don't know what the difference is between the 2 dB that they are using and the 3 db measurement I usually see, but I think I need a speaker that can crossover around 90 Hz in order for it to integrate well with a subwoofer. I suspect that the Paradigms can do that, but some of this data seems to say "no".

It looks like there is a dealer not too far away. I'll plan on giving them a call.
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post #63 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to give a quick update where I am. I think I've narrowed it down to 3. Paradigm MillenniaOne, B&W M-1, and KEF 301s. I think that I will order a PB-1000 and SB-1000 from SVS and keep whichever I like better.

I'm moving into the house tomorrow. I'll post some pictures of the room and confirm measurements sometime in the next few days to see if you guys think that I'm on the right track.

The number one critique I've gotten is that these small speakers won't cut it for the mains and I'll regret it. So here is what I'm thinking: Buy three speakers now and setup a 3.1 system. When I'm ready to add surrounds, I'll know if I need to go bigger (in which case I will move two of the small speakers to the surround position and add larger fronts and center) or just add two more small speakers to complete the 5.1 setup. I'm already busting my budget anyway so this is a fiscal decision as well as a practical one.

I'm thinking that I could I poll 100 people and around 1/3 would prefer each of the three speakers I've honed in on (meaning they are all very capable and so it would be completely subjective). If that is the case I'll probably end up making the decision based on price...which would mean KEF. I maybe able to audition the B&Ws and Paradigms, but I will have to make some calls and check return policies to confirm.

Alright. Thanks again everyone. More data to come in the next few days.
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post #64 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 05:53 PM
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^^ Exciting time for you! Let us know how everything works out.
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post #65 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cu_shane View Post
Thanks for posting. These look like fantastic speakers. I looked into them earlier, but didn't realize they came in white (which is a big plus for me). Now that I see they do, I am definitely considering them. It looks like Sound & Vision goes back and forth between naming the MilleniaOne and the B&W M-1 HT systems their product of the year. They are both the same price per speaker. I'm guessing that these are both top notch speakers, but some things about the MelleniaOne bother me and I'm hoping you can offer some insight.

There seems to be a large contradiction between the S&V test graphs here: and here http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-page-4. I wonder which one is more representative of the speakers actual performance.

When you ran your AVR's room correction, what did it set your speakers crossovers to? Paradigm claims a frequency response of +/- 2 dB 120 Hz - 20 kHz. I don't know what the difference is between the 2 dB that they are using and the 3 db measurement I usually see, but I think I need a speaker that can crossover around 90 Hz in order for it to integrate well with a subwoofer. I suspect that the Paradigms can do that, but some of this data seems to say "no".

It looks like there is a dealer not too far away. I'll plan on giving them a call.
When I ran Audyssey on my Denon AVR-X3000 it came up with 120 Hz for the sides, 110 for the surrounds, and 100 for the center. I'm not sure why this would happen - room dynamics, or the direction the speakers are facing maybe.

My subwoofer is located just "outside" of my right front speaker, and I do not notice any localization issues. In fact the effect is remarkable - it sounds like the massive bass is coming out of the tiny speakers.

I think most places will let you "audition" speakers for a few days, if that is not too much hassle. I am very pleased with my setup, and I get compliments on it all the time when people come over to watch movies or I'm playing music for a party. However, if you poll the owners of the other sets you are considering, I imagine they're quite happy as well. I did specifically choose MilleniaOne for its flat frequency response curve and its ability to play deeper than some of the other speakers I was considering, especially the Minx.

I previously owned an Anthem AVR, which comes with software to display the frequency charts for your speakers. I posted the results here (same speakers, same room as now):
Anthem MRX Receivers - 300, 500, 700 Owners Thread & Tweaking Guide

Keep us updated!
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post #66 of 86 Old 07-16-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cu_shane View Post
...The number one critique I've gotten is that these small speakers won't cut it for the mains and I'll regret it. So here is what I'm thinking: ...
Maybe its the same critics who would recommend a pair as shown in the attachment for stereo reproduction in your listening room?

I would gently remind them of the Schroeder Frequency issue and ask how did they deal with it in the room?
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post #67 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cu_shane View Post
Just to give a quick update where I am. I think I've narrowed it down to 3. Paradigm MillenniaOne, B&W M-1, and KEF 301s. I think that I will order a PB-1000 and SB-1000 from SVS and keep whichever I like better.

I'm moving into the house tomorrow. I'll post some pictures of the room and confirm measurements sometime in the next few days to see if you guys think that I'm on the right track.

The number one critique I've gotten is that these small speakers won't cut it for the mains and I'll regret it. So here is what I'm thinking: Buy three speakers now and setup a 3.1 system. When I'm ready to add surrounds, I'll know if I need to go bigger (in which case I will move two of the small speakers to the surround position and add larger fronts and center) or just add two more small speakers to complete the 5.1 setup. I'm already busting my budget anyway so this is a fiscal decision as well as a practical one.

I'm thinking that I could I poll 100 people and around 1/3 would prefer each of the three speakers I've honed in on (meaning they are all very capable and so it would be completely subjective). If that is the case I'll probably end up making the decision based on price...which would mean KEF. I maybe able to audition the B&Ws and Paradigms, but I will have to make some calls and check return policies to confirm.

Alright. Thanks again everyone. More data to come in the next few days.
EDIT: !!!!!!!!!! Ignore ... not available in the US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just found these ... WAF up the wazoo!

http://www.trustedreviews.com/q-acou...-System_review

Check 'em out!

Last edited by RayGuy; 07-17-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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post #68 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 02:50 AM
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^RayGuy,

Great find on the Q-Acoustics 7000i satellite and sub combo. The British speaker manufacturers are a creative bunch; the pill shaped design of the satellite and rectangular (briefcase?) shaped sub is unique to say to least. These are a re-fresh of a the popular 7000 model.

I like their satellite specification of 95Hz (-3dB?) in a sealed enclosure with dual 3"drivers. Q-Acoustics doesn't appear to cheat in reproducing low frequencies with a port - unlike a lot of other speaker manufacturers. Would be interested to know the THD frequency response.

The bad points are the low sensitivity of 85dB/W/m and nominal impedance of 6 ohms. Would need to check that the AVR can drive this. Won't be a problem if one sits 8' to 10' from them.

The pros are each satellite can be purchase individually and price seems reasonable. This maybe a key factor if starting with just two units and building out to a full 7.1 system.

I would put these on the short list for a listen. Something for cu_shane to consider.

P.S. Across the pond, the sister forum and a nice review of the 7000i carried out by Ed Selley.

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post #69 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 10:58 AM
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Have you considered using a phantom setup? You might be able to get away with larger L and R speakers if you don't use a center. WAF is usually higher the fewer speakers you get.


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post #70 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^RayGuy,

Great find on the Q-Acoustics 7000i satellite and sub combo. The British speaker manufacturers are a creative bunch; the pill shaped design of the satellite and rectangular (briefcase?) shaped sub is unique to say to least. These are a re-fresh of a the popular 7000 model.

I like their satellite specification of 95Hz (-3dB?) in a sealed enclosure with dual 3"drivers. Q-Acoustics doesn't appear to cheat in reproducing low frequencies with a port - unlike a lot of other speaker manufacturers. Would be interested to know the THD frequency response.

The bad points are the low sensitivity of 85dB/W/m and nominal impedance of 6 ohms. Would need to check that the AVR can drive this. Won't be a problem if one sits 8' to 10' from them.

The pros are each satellite can be purchase individually and price seems reasonable. This maybe a key factor if starting with just two units and building out to a full 7.1 system.

I would put these on the short list for a listen. Something for cu_shane to consider.

P.S. Across the pond, the sister forum and a nice review of the 7000i carried out by Ed Selley.
The review: http://www.avforums.com/review/q-aco...-1-review.9691

I find the review's description of the smooth character, coupled with the excellent reproduction of detail, to be intriguing. Performance is excellent in terms of bass extension, assuming the specs can be believed. The two 3" mid-woofs are roughly equivalent to a 4.25" single driver, which is in the same ballpark as the others.

As far as WAF, I can't imagine a speaker being any higher than this one, while still delivering quality sound. Although not particularly efficient (speakers this size always have a compromise), a careful selection of receiver can compensate for that (and the 6 ohm rating).

This set has the most glowing reviews I've yet read for a "lifestyle" system. Shane has a tough choice to make!

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post #71 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 12:46 PM
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Are they available in the US though?

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
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post #72 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 01:53 PM
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Are they available in the US though?
You can get them in Lebanon!

Geesh, worldwide distribution that does NOT include the USA? Sad

Nevermind!
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post #73 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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So here are some pictures of the space where everything is going to go. The TV is going to go above the fireplace. The catch will be in front of the windows (directly across from the TV), but about 3' off of the wall. Eventually, we plan to put build-in shelving on either side of the fireplace, which would give me a great place to conceal my AVR, cable box, etc. As you can see on the floor plan in the OP, the room is 18' wide and 16' deep and you have two wide doorways on either side of the room. We'll add a large rug so that should help with the room acoustics.

I've got movers, contractors, my mother-in-law, and God knows how else in and out of the house for next several days so there will likely be radio silence on my end for a bit. In the meantime, if seeing the room gives you guys any new ideas/opinions, post away.

Also, if anyone is going to Lebanon anytime soon, pick up a set of Q-Acoustics for me, will ya
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post #74 of 86 Old 07-17-2014, 08:30 PM
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Also, if anyone is going to Lebanon anytime soon, pick up a set of Q-Acoustics for me, will ya
You could drive to Canada .....
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post #75 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 03:14 AM
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Have you considered using a phantom setup? You might be able to get away with larger L and R speakers if you don't use a center. WAF is usually higher the fewer speakers you get.
Bacon13,

I'm a little suspect on the missing center speaker for movies when the the studio has mixed the dialogue to a dedicated center channel within the soundtrack. For most movies, I've read somewhere in AVS that is where 60% of the soundtrack is (not certain of this number) - so it is important and significant part of the movie experience. When one doesn't have a center channel, the AVR will down mix the dialogue and combine into the left and right channels. The down mixed track is then sent the left and right speakers which has to reproduce the 3 channels using just 2 transducers (speakers). This is effectively creating what's called a phantom center image.

Assuming there is no loss of information in the down mix, while the correct stereo setup will give a phantom image in the center - it is very dependent on the sweet spot. If you're not sitting in the sweet spot, the phantom center collapses and one cannot here the dialogue within the movie. This may ruin the experience, be distracting or pull one out of the immersion of the movie. It's not easy to get the correct stereo image in a room due to acoustics. You may have solved the room acoustics problem (via room treatments, placement, position, etc.) that allows this to be possible, but most wont know or have the time/money to carry this out.

Having a separate center speaker is a neater solution. Means no down mixing, allows flexibility in placement and for directivity in aiming the dialogue to the listening position or covering a larger listening area.

I'd rather pay the extra cash, get the front sound stage correct by having 3 identical speakers (Left, Center and Right) and set the foundation right for sound reproduction.

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Last edited by steveting99; 07-18-2014 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Clarification on some wording.
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post #76 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 06:49 AM
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Ultimate in WAF is these.

http://www.sonance.com/in-wall-in-ce...visible-series

And you will need a tilt on your tv mount if you ate putting it that height. Maybe even a fancy pull down one to get a better viewing height.

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post #77 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Bacon13,

I'm a little suspect on the missing center speaker for movies when the the studio has mixed the dialogue to a dedicated center channel within the soundtrack.

I'd rather pay the extra cash, get the front sound stage correct by having 3 identical speakers (Left, Center and Right) and set the foundation right for sound reproduction.
steveting99,

I totally get what you are saying, but the original poster is working with a limited budget, is considering smaller speakers that don't quite have the frequency response he wants, and most importantly has to get his wife to buy off on the setup.

The phantom center would help with all three of his criteria; fewer speakers to buy means he could get better speakers with the budget, also it would seem a wife would be more willing to put up with larger speakers if you don't have that center one that usually stands out, and looks out of place.

This may not be the best option, but when someone puts WAF in their topic title, they are willing to make compromises and I was trying to offer an out of the box solution.


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post #78 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 08:45 AM
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In these kind of severely WAF-constrained situations, I'm struck on-wall speakers don't get mentioned more. Presumably there are lots of folks who don't want to put holes in their walls for in-wall speakers, but want something mounted as much out of the way as possible. There seem to be a number of on-wall speakers from reputable companies, but they don't get mentioned much on here as best I can tell. Given WAF and kid-constraints, that seems a bit surprising. Just something I've been thinking about as I try to advise a friend with serious space and kid constraints.
I was thinking the same thing. DefTech has some nice on-wall speakers that look good, too.

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
- Klipsch RW-12D
- Sony HW50es
- Firehawk G3
- Denon 2113
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post #79 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 06:55 PM
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steveting99,

I totally get what you are saying, but the original poster is working with a limited budget, is considering smaller speakers that don't quite have the frequency response he wants, and most importantly has to get his wife to buy off on the setup.

The phantom center would help with all three of his criteria; fewer speakers to buy means he could get better speakers with the budget, also it would seem a wife would be more willing to put up with larger speakers if you don't have that center one that usually stands out, and looks out of place.

This may not be the best option, but when someone puts WAF in their topic title, they are willing to make compromises and I was trying to offer an out of the box solution.
Hi Bacon13,

Apologies if there was any misunderstanding. Agree with your thinking that it is a question of compromise once budget limitations are in. Hopefully it can lead to creative thinking in problem solving and finding solutions, as you've suggested - part of the fun / discovery...

In terms of sound quality, I would rate the following from lowest to highest:

TV speakers --> soundbar --> 2.1 --> 3.1 --> 5.1 --> Dolby Atmos using mutliple transducers

By the way (BTW) your home theater setup in a difficult room is very nice - particularly the wood finish around the screen area / speaker stands. It must have been challenging and fun to build. Your experience would help Shane as he's starting out with his right now.

Has got me thinking of what I'd like to do if I get the opportunity.

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post #80 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cu_shane View Post
So here are some pictures of the space where everything is going to go. The TV is going to go above the fireplace. The catch will be in front of the windows (directly across from the TV), but about 3' off of the wall. Eventually, we plan to put build-in shelving on either side of the fireplace, which would give me a great place to conceal my AVR, cable box, etc. As you can see on the floor plan in the OP, the room is 18' wide and 16' deep and you have two wide doorways on either side of the room. We'll add a large rug so that should help with the room acoustics.
Hi Shane,

If you're planning to place the TV above the fireplace (along the 18' long wall), try the following Main Listening Positions (MLPs) to minimize standing bass waves.

Position 1:
From the front wall = 0.32 x 18' = 5.76'
From the side wall = 0.32 x 16' = 5.12'

Position 2:
From the front wall = 0.45 x 18' = 8.1'
From the side wall = 0.45 x 16' = 7.2'

Position 3:
From the front wall = 0.55 x 18' = 9.9'
From the side wall = 0.55 x 16' = 8.8'

Position 4:
From the front wall = 0.68 x 18' = 12.24'
From the side wall = 0.68 x 16' = 10.88'

For correct stereo image, the left and right speakers need to be in an equilateral triangle to the MLP. Tweeters pointed pointed to the ears. If you're going with LCR arrangement, try to keep the maximum vertical displacement between the center and left + right speakers to be under 2'.

Position 1 is near field. Obviously the further away from the transducers, the higher the sensitivity needs to be to get the max value of 105dB. Position 4 might be a stretch with small satellites. A lot will depend on your Denon room eq results. Generally, like to see a negative number for the SPL levels.

For the sub placement, try out the front corners of the room first to excite all room modes. If this causes too much variation in the bass response at the MLP, try the following alternative sub locations along the 18' length wall: 4.5' & 13.5'. If this doesn't work, place the sub near the MLP. Later on and when funds are available, a 2nd sub will do a much better job of smoothing out the bass.

For your window, please consider using broadband sound absorption curtains/drapes, this will help reduce reflections from the back wall and improve the image from the front sound stage.

If you give me your ceiling height, I can post your room modes graphs.

Edit: Shane's listening room mode graph attached. Room volume is just over 2,300 cu. ft. The first mode is due to the ceiling of 71Hz. The width (31Hz) and length (35 Hz) modes are much lower.
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Last edited by steveting99; 07-18-2014 at 08:06 PM. Reason: room mode for shane's room
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post #81 of 86 Old 07-18-2014, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Shane,

If you're planning to place the TV above the fireplace (along the 18' long wall), try the following Main Listening Positions (MLPs) to minimize standing bass waves.

Position 1:
From the front wall = 0.32 x 18' = 5.76'
From the side wall = 0.32 x 16' = 5.12'

Position 2:
From the front wall = 0.45 x 18' = 8.1'
From the side wall = 0.45 x 16' = 7.2'

Position 3:
From the front wall = 0.55 x 18' = 9.9'
From the side wall = 0.55 x 16' = 8.8'

Position 4:
From the front wall = 0.68 x 18' = 12.24'
From the side wall = 0.68 x 16' = 10.88'

For correct stereo image, the left and right speakers need to be in an equilateral triangle to the MLP. Tweeters pointed pointed to the ears. If you're going with LCR arrangement, try to keep the maximum vertical displacement between the center and left + right speakers to be under 2'.

Position 1 is near field. Obviously the further away from the transducers, the higher the sensitivity needs to be to get the max value of 105dB. Position 4 might be a stretch with small satellites. A lot will depend on your Denon room eq results. Generally, like to see a negative number for the SPL levels.

For the sub placement, try out the front corners of the room first to excite all room modes. If this causes too much variation in the bass response at the MLP, try the following alternative sub locations along the 18' length wall: 4.5' & 13.5'. If this doesn't work, place the sub near the MLP. Later on and when funds are available, a 2nd sub will do a much better job of smoothing out the bass.

For your window, please consider using broadband sound absorption curtains/drapes, this will help reduce reflections from the back wall and improve the image from the front sound stage.

If you give me your ceiling height, I can post your room modes graphs.

Thanks! Room height is 8'
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post #82 of 86 Old 07-23-2014, 04:08 PM
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I have been searching for speakers for a room a couple inches over 13 feet x a couple inches short of 10 feet with ceilings about 8 ft high. I listened to the B&W M1 at 3 different places because the first 2 places they sounded so disappointing and they were just as bad at the 3rd. The 3rd being an independent specialist. I alos listened to the Golden Ear Sub Sat 3 and those were unimpressive as well.

Mark Flesichmann for Sound and Vision who has reviewed a lot of compact speaker systems and takes note of them had a lot of good things to say about the Millenia One saying they were the best satellites he had heard and if you don't want satellites they might change your mind. That was October 2012.

In May of 2013 he reviews the Minx S325v2 and says he has never heard a better satellite and that ones that were as good he could count on one hand and have a few fingers left over. He went on to say if he was buying a compact system he would buy the Minx. So he had already listened to the Millenia One and also classified that as a compact system but he would choose the Minx. Most on here seem to take them off the list and I realize that everyone has different tastes and they are entitled to but the Minx must be pretty good.

It has been very frustrating, I call a place and ask if they have Def Tech Pro Monitor 800 hooked up so I can hear music and movies and they say yes. I arrive after an hour drive and they put it on a movie and it is the Pro Monitor 1000s playing. He looks at the hook up and says he can let me hear a cd through the 800 but not a movie. Other stores only have them hooked up for surrounds. The Minx S325v2 were an hour and a half ride and once again I could only hear 2 speakers and the sub.

Another thing with the Minx is they require quite a while to break in. Who knows if they are even broken in yet when listening at these places.That goes for any speakers.

I heard the Millenia ones at a specialty shop and they sounded very good but they did not seem to be playing well outside the speakers. Maybe that is why he would choose the Minx because they filled the room better. That was one of his observations.
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post #83 of 86 Old 07-23-2014, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been searching for speakers for a room a couple inches over 13 feet x a couple inches short of 10 feet with ceilings about 8 ft high. I listened to the B&W M1 at 3 different places because the first 2 places they sounded so disappointing and they were just as bad at the 3rd. The 3rd being an independent specialist. I alos listened to the Golden Ear Sub Sat 3 and those were unimpressive as well.

Mark Flesichmann for Sound and Vision who has reviewed a lot of compact speaker systems and takes note of them had a lot of good things to say about the Millenia One saying they were the best satellites he had heard and if you don't want satellites they might change your mind. That was October 2012.

In May of 2013 he reviews the Minx S325v2 and says he has never heard a better satellite and that ones that were as good he could count on one hand and have a few fingers left over. He went on to say if he was buying a compact system he would buy the Minx. So he had already listened to the Millenia One and also classified that as a compact system but he would choose the Minx. Most on here seem to take them off the list and I realize that everyone has different tastes and they are entitled to but the Minx must be pretty good.

It has been very frustrating, I call a place and ask if they have Def Tech Pro Monitor 800 hooked up so I can hear music and movies and they say yes. I arrive after an hour drive and they put it on a movie and it is the Pro Monitor 1000s playing. He looks at the hook up and says he can let me hear a cd through the 800 but not a movie. Other stores only have them hooked up for surrounds. The Minx S325v2 were an hour and a half ride and once again I could only hear 2 speakers and the sub.

Another thing with the Minx is they require quite a while to break in. Who knows if they are even broken in yet when listening at these places.That goes for any speakers.

I heard the Millenia ones at a specialty shop and they sounded very good but they did not seem to be playing well outside the speakers. Maybe that is why he would choose the Minx because they filled the room better. That was one of his observations.
Thanks for the info. You have put in a lot of effort to listen to several different types of speakers -- what were your impressions? I see you weren't a fan of the B&Ws and you liked the MilleniaOnes, but did you like the Def Tech 800s and 1000s and the Minx?

I'd have to drive a fair distance to hear the Minx so I don't plan on auditioning them. I know they get good reviews, but Cambridge Audio recommends setting the crossover to 140Hz and that is a bit of a turn off to me. I've had Mirage Nanosats in the past and I'm guessing the Minx are someone similar...especially since Cambridge talks about their wide sound dispersion.
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post #84 of 86 Old 07-23-2014, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to give a quick update where I am. I think I've narrowed it down to 3. Paradigm MillenniaOne, B&W M-1, and KEF 301s. I think that I will order a PB-1000 and SB-1000 from SVS and keep whichever I like better.

I'm moving into the house tomorrow. I'll post some pictures of the room and confirm measurements sometime in the next few days to see if you guys think that I'm on the right track.

The number one critique I've gotten is that these small speakers won't cut it for the mains and I'll regret it. So here is what I'm thinking: Buy three speakers now and setup a 3.1 system. When I'm ready to add surrounds, I'll know if I need to go bigger (in which case I will move two of the small speakers to the surround position and add larger fronts and center) or just add two more small speakers to complete the 5.1 setup. I'm already busting my budget anyway so this is a fiscal decision as well as a practical one.

I'm thinking that I could I poll 100 people and around 1/3 would prefer each of the three speakers I've honed in on (meaning they are all very capable and so it would be completely subjective). If that is the case I'll probably end up making the decision based on price...which would mean KEF. I maybe able to audition the B&Ws and Paradigms, but I will have to make some calls and check return policies to confirm.

Alright. Thanks again everyone. More data to come in the next few days.
A week later and I have pretty much settled on this gameplan. New M1s and MelliniaOnes are $250+/each. Its tough to find them used in white. I can get a pair of KEF E301s open-box for $250. All things being equal, I probably wouldn't go with the KEFs especially since they have a very limited range of side-to-side mount movement, which could be a disadvantage depending on where I put them. But, all things aren't equal so I'm likely going to order two pairs and an SVS sub to setup a 3.1 system for $1000 out-the-door.

When I'm ready to go to 5.1, I will either order another pair of E301s or bump it up to something like the KEF Q300s for the fronts if I think it is needed.

So that's pretty much it. If anyone things I'm headed down the wrong path (and haven't already said so), feel free to chime in. Otherwise, I'll post some pictures once I have a system in place

Thanks again for all the great advice! The fun part comes next and I'm looking forward to it

Last edited by cu_shane; 07-23-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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post #85 of 86 Old 07-24-2014, 05:38 AM
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I was not interested in the ProMonitor 1000 system so I really did not pay attention. The ProMonitor 800 sounded good with the music but I was unable to hear a movie and that is where the B&W sounded so bad. The B&W and Golden Ear Sub Sat 3 were rated well also so I can't figure it out. The ProMonitor 800 satellites were spaced far, I would say 10 to 15 feet apart and mounted on the wall with swivel mounts up high pointing down.

Couldn't hear a movie with the Minx either. I think there was someone earlier on in this post that has the ProMonitor 800 I would be interested to hear how they are with movies. In my situation being forced into smaller speakers there are only so many options. The Boston Acoustics A25 system was rated good too but I can't hear them. Too bad because they have some at reduced prices on their website.

As much as I like great sound for music, smaller speakers are going to sacrifice something due to physics. I want something that sounds as good as possible for music but I want something that is going to be very good at movies too. Without being able to hear movies and music through a speaker system it is hard to narrow it down, especially since some of the ones I have heard did not sound good for movies.

I am going to listen to the Millenia One again because I don't recall them playing beyond the speakers and I want to make sure of that. If it comes down to them I definitely won't be buying the Millenia One sub. Probably go with the SVS SB1000.
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post #86 of 86 Old 07-24-2014, 05:52 AM
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...
When I'm ready to go to 5.1, I will either order another pair of E301s or bump it up to something like the KEF Q300s for the fronts if I think it is needed...
This is a logical up-grade path when funds become available.

I'm also thinking along the same line, except eyeing the KEF LS50 for the front sound stage. Might take me awhile to save up for these.
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Maranatz NR1504, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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