Finally I assembled my 5.0 home theater system. Now is time for the sub. - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
My receiver has only one sub output, what should I do in the case I want to get the Minidsp?
That is all you need. The Minidsp can be configured a number of ways, but basically, input one can control two of the outputs, and input 2 the other two. If you had a single output from the receiver, but had say 3 subwoofers, you could use a y-adapter from the single output from the receiver to send a signal to both inputs which would allow control up to 4 subs. My receiver has two outputs, and I use 3 of the 4 outputs from the Minidsp. If you only wanted to control 1-2 subs, you only need one input. For 3-4 subs, you need to use both inputs, but again, it's easily accomplished with a y-adapter if needed.
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post #32 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:14 PM
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As someone who has lived with and extensively used many Polk Subwoofers like the 8" with the RM6750, Polk PSW10's and PSW12's and listened to subwoofer like the $600 HSU VTF-2 Mk3.

No amount of equalization will improve the Polks to reach the performance of a $500 subwoofer from SVS, and Reaction Audio.

Currently the only $500 options are the Reaction Audio BPS-212 or SVS Sound PB-1000. If you got some more money like $600 we can recommend the Rythmik LV12r.

There is a reason I sold all my Polk subwoofers and now saving my pennies until I can aford a $500 subwoofer. The difference is huge!

Last edited by crazyrob425; 07-14-2014 at 08:21 PM.
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post #33 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
Do you know of any alternative in that price range that go that low?
The SVS is the least expensive manufactured sub to be flat down to just below 20hz.

You would need to go DIY to so it for less.
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post #34 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post
As someone who has lived with and extensively used many Polk Subwoofers like the 8" with the RM6750, Polk PSW10's and PSW12's and listened to subwoofer like the $600 HSU VTF-2 Mk3.

No amount of equalization will improve the Polks to reach the performance of a $500 subwoofer from SVS, and Reaction Audio.

Currently the only $500 options are the Reaction Audio BPS-212 or SVS Sound PB-1000. If you got some more money like $600 we can recommend the Rythmik LV12r
How are you comparing the two, by listed specs, and non-room correction?
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post #35 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
The SVS is the least expensive manufactured sub to be flat down to just below 20hz.

You would need to go DIY to so it for less.

Flat to 20hz where? Not in most listening rooms. I'm not trying to be argumentative with anyone, but listed specs are worthless once the room takes over...and it always will until you address it.

Again, I'm talking about 3 corrected Polks over any single non-corrected sub. I'm not comparing head to head, the Polks vs whatever. In addition, the Polks are just an example, I'm not trying to pimp them or anything.
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post #36 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:42 PM
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If you don't start with a sub that has an
Accurate response chances are you will
Have a very difficult time achieving good
Accurate response after factoring in room.

Rooms freq response can be corrected,
Sometimes it's as simple as proper placement.
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post #37 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
How are you comparing the two, by listed specs, and non-room correction?
My buddy had the same apartment I did with the same furniture lay out. Like same floor plan and all.

He went from a Bic H100 to HSU VTF-2 Mk3. We did a side by side comparison with the Polk PSW12. Calibration was done my Audyssey MultiEQ. Not a true subwoofer equalizer but this is not a simple spec sheet comparison this is a person with real in person listening experience.

Seriously you are doing the OP a huge disfavor by pushing $50 dollar subwoofers with an eq claiming his performance will equal that of a serious subwoofer IMHO.
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post #38 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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You're convincing me to get the SVS. If I'm happy with the system as it is now that means that I can patiently save the money to get the SVS and finally be able to go down to 20 Hz. I always had cheap speakers. The Polk Audio speakers I have now are by far the best speakers I ever had. Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer me.
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post #39 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow the whole line of SVS speakers look fantastic but they are way out of my budget. Hopefully in a distant future I will have speakers like that.
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post #40 of 88 Old 07-14-2014, 09:51 PM
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^^ That's something to strive for down the road, but in the meantime you can do well with a top budget sub, such as those first mentioned (the NX-BAS-500 or BIC PL-200).
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post #41 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
You're convincing me to get the SVS. If I'm happy with the system as it is now that means that I can patiently save the money to get the SVS and finally be able to go down to 20 Hz. I always had cheap speakers. The Polk Audio speakers I have now are by far the best speakers I ever had. Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer me.
Keep your eye on SVS' Outlet Specials too Louis. There's a blemished SB-1000 (Black Ash) there at the moment for $449. It would be ripper little sub. You could pick up a mate for it in future when finances permit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
Wow the whole line of SVS speakers look fantastic but they are way out of my budget. Hopefully in a distant future I will have speakers like that.
Yes the SVS Ultras are beautifully (over)engineered speakers that perform at a high level. As dsrussell said; something for the future. Because you now have a full complement of Polks, you can take your time and just start with a pair of Ultra (or whatever) bookshelves and move the Polks to rear duty or perhaps a second system. Centre channel next, then eventually new mains. All the while repurposing the Polks to make way new speakers.
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post #42 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post
My buddy had the same apartment I did with the same furniture lay out. Like same floor plan and all.

He went from a Bic H100 to HSU VTF-2 Mk3. We did a side by side comparison with the Polk PSW12. Calibration was done my Audyssey MultiEQ. Not a true subwoofer equalizer but this is not a simple spec sheet comparison this is a person with real in person listening experience.

Seriously you are doing the OP a huge disfavor by pushing $50 dollar subwoofers with an eq claiming his performance will equal that of a serious subwoofer IMHO.
I don't think I am doing the OP a disfavor. I'm relaying real world experience. You may not agree with my assessment, but it is real world use, measurements and to me, success.

I won't apologize for doing that.

No offense, but actual measurements should trump "a buddy with the same apartment". Wouldn't you agree?

For the record, I'm not pimping the Polks, they are just an example, and I do own 3 of them, so I know a little about them, but they aren't the cats ass in subs and I know that, but with proper eq, they can perform much higher than expected.

Last edited by 89grand; 07-15-2014 at 12:35 AM.
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post #43 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
You're convincing me to get the SVS. If I'm happy with the system as it is now that means that I can patiently save the money to get the SVS and finally be able to go down to 20 Hz. I always had cheap speakers. The Polk Audio speakers I have now are by far the best speakers I ever had. Thanks everybody for taking the time to answer me.
This is how I see it, since you weren't planning on getting one, you aren't in a hurry. Take some time to save up a little more and get the sub that is actually worth the money. One big advantage to a good sub is that is sounds good at low volumes. In an apartment, this is very advantageous because you don't need to crank it to hear the bass. With my BIC F-12, I have to really turn it up to get much out of it and then it just sounds boomy.

Please stay away from the Polk subs, I owned the PSW10 back in the day, and it's not worth even half what they charge. Even if you had 8 of them, you would just have poor bass throughout the room.

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post #44 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 07:12 AM
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^^^Your problem is exactly what happens when the room acoustics are bad. It's easier to blame the subs, but it's the room, not the subs. I used to have the problems you describe.

Basically what happens is you have very uneven response in the room, and probably really bad right at the listening position, so when something like a certain song has bass centered at the null, you try to crank up the sub, only to make the already present peaks even louder. Or other times, a song may have bass centered at one of the peaks, and then the sub sounds way too loud. It's the room, because I don't have that problem any more now that it has been corrected at the listening position. It's a night and day difference that I can't stress enough.
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post #45 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 07:13 AM
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My room isn't ideal, but I have spent a while trying to find the best place. I find myself having to turn it up for music more so than movies, I feel like it doesn't really do anything and honestly it sounds better just running my towers in direct mode. The best place to put it is smack dab in the middle of my room, but I can't keep it there, so until I can get additional subs I have to make do.

The Polk sub was not in the same location, that was in a small bedroom.

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post #46 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
My room isn't ideal, but I have spent a while trying to find the best place. I find myself having to turn it up for music more so than movies, I feel like it doesn't really do anything and honestly it sounds better just running my towers in direct mode. The best place to put it is smack dab in the middle of my room, but I can't keep it there, so until I can get additional subs I have to make do.

The Polk sub was not in the same location, that was in a small bedroom.
Your exactly right. That's the main reason I don't recommend single subs, because you generally can't put them where they sound the best because it will probably be some stupid spot like right in the middle of the room, so we put them where they make the most sense, but probably where they sound bad. When I went from 1 to 3 subs, the response was better and more even through out the room, but it wasn't until I got the Minidsp and did measurements, that I realized just how bad my room was. The response was worse when I measured each individually, while better with all 3 playing, it still wasn't good at all. Measurements also really helped set the right phase of each sub, which is kind of hard to do by ear.

After using REW and the Minidsp, I'm not kidding, my bass response improved immensely. I no longer find myself fiddling with the sub levels, and it sounds just like my mains are producing all of the bass. I used to walk in another room and have booming bass that was much louder than in the listening position, and that's a common problem with people in apartments, someone below them or next to them complain about the bass, when the owner thinks "It's not even that loud in here". That problem went away as well.
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post #47 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 07:56 AM
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Yeah nothing beats a good EQ, but I guess the point we were making is there are still physical limitations of the budget subs. In order to get that ULF bass in movies, you need something that can get you there, and the PB-1000 is the first sub that will get you good sub-20Hz output.
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post #48 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 08:02 AM
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True. My emphasis is on music, where 20hz isn't a priority, but for those that it is, you need something capable of producing it at decent levels.
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post #49 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Somebody mentioned that to get similar or better results than the SVS subs you need to go DIY. I was browsing parts-express.com and after some analysis I came with the following configuration: 1) Sub/enclosure combo 2) plate amplifier. Both the combo and amplifier have great reviews by their users. The plate amplifier is nice because it has an integrated EQ. How do you think this will compare with the SVS subs? I think that the amplifier is a little bit expensive, do you know of any similar alternatives?
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post #50 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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This kit also looks good: Dayton Audio RS1200K
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post #51 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 03:10 PM
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For Speaker Cable / Wire


Buy 12 gauge Monoprice.com speaker wire and be done with it. Great quality, low price, untold thousands of recommendations on AVS forums, and others. What more could you ask for!


For cables in general, both monoprice.com and AmazonBasics (amazon.com) are great high quality cables at very nice prices.
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post #52 of 88 Old 07-15-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
This kit also looks good: Dayton Audio RS1200K
When we say DIY we mean complete DIY build and design your own box. Not a kit. There is a forum to help with that.

If you are looking for a subwoofer with $500 the SVS-PB-1000 is proven subwoofer. Now since you are looking at a $580 subwoofer kit I would be silly not to suggest the Rythmik LV12r for $599 which is the proven subwoofer for those with $600 to spend. The Rythmik LV12R is the proven subwoofer for those on that budget,

One AMAZING option you have available now is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, currently on sale for $599 shipped. Or there is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus slightly less performing than the EX currently on sale $499 shipped. Both of these subwoofers are tunable meaning you can tune them to have really deep bass or not so deep bass but high output.

Given the currently sale prices of either Outlaws those would be my choice.

Since you are stuck on what subwoofer to buy, why not make a thread in the Subwoofer section that way you will get the Bassheads of the forum to chime in.
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post #53 of 88 Old 07-16-2014, 11:53 AM
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^^^^ All very good ID sub options.
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post #54 of 88 Old 07-16-2014, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post
When we say DIY we mean complete DIY build and design your own box. Not a kit. There is a forum to help with that.

If you are looking for a subwoofer with $500 the SVS-PB-1000 is proven subwoofer. Now since you are looking at a $580 subwoofer kit I would be silly not to suggest the Rythmik LV12r for $599 which is the proven subwoofer for those with $600 to spend. The Rythmik LV12R is the proven subwoofer for those on that budget,

One AMAZING option you have available now is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX, currently on sale for $599 shipped. Or there is the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus slightly less performing than the EX currently on sale $499 shipped. Both of these subwoofers are tunable meaning you can tune them to have really deep bass or not so deep bass but high output.

Given the currently sale prices of either Outlaws those would be my choice.

Since you are stuck on what subwoofer to buy, why not make a thread in the Subwoofer section that way you will get the Bassheads of the forum to chime in.
Wow, those Outlaws look really nice. Make you feel they are worth the investment. I think I'll go for one of them over the SVS.
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post #55 of 88 Old 07-16-2014, 04:24 PM
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+1 on the Outlaw EX, at $600 you can not do better for a commercial sub.
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post #56 of 88 Old 07-16-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
Wow, those Outlaws look really nice. Make you feel they are worth the investment. I think I'll go for one of them over the SVS.
No doubt that the Outlaw is impressive for its price. See Josh Ricci's review here: http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...fm-1-ex-review

Hmmm, I wonder if Dr. Hsu had any input here.
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post #57 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

The facts:
Hello, is me again. I've been thinking again and came with some more questions. I thought about having two sub-woofers eventually. I was thinking to add one to the high level outputs of the receiver to extend the Polks frequency range and try to make them sound like a bigger tower. The analysis I made is that the towers would have cost me about $380 vs $140 for the Monitor 40s. That's a difference of $240 that I can use to get a sub-woofer. For the same investment I can have a pair of nice bookshelf speakers and a sub and that combo will have way more bass than the towers alone for the same investment. The second sub can be hooked to the sub preamp out of the receiver to provide whatever bass comes from that additional channel.
Now the questions:
Is there a difference between what I just said and use a splitter to hook up both subs to the sub out of the receiver? Since I'm no expert all I can do is guess. I guess that since the first sub is actually hooked to the high level output of the receiver, that sub will enhance the bass that's supposed to come from the front/right channels. The one connected to the sub out will provide whatever bass was added by the filmmakers to that channel and will be a different bass channel. I guess that hooking 2 subs the way I say I'll have two different channels of bass as opposed than using a splitter to hook up the 2 subs to the sub out of the receiver because that way I'll have just one channel coming from 2 subs. I would like some other member here to confirm what I was guessing.
One last question. I was browsing Amazon and found this 15" sub from a brand I know that's been around for a few decades but I never heard before that they were building subs. The brand and model are: Pyle Home PDSB15A and I was wondering if somebody here have any experience with that particular sub. Thanks in advance.
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post #58 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 10:28 PM
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^^ Nope, never auditioned (nor heard about) them. Looked them up on the Pyle website and found they really gave no specs for it … at least none I could find. And if specifications aren't readily available, there is probably a good reason for it. My advise is to stick with those already listed that actually have real specifications.
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post #59 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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What about my 2 sub idea?
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post #60 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:00 PM
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^^ Two subs? If you mean getting a good sub now and saving for another (same brand and model), then two subs is a good idea. SVS will give you a discount on a second sub if it is purchased within one year. Two subs will help smooth out room modes (peaks and nulls) at the listening position (should that be a problem). It also has a side benefit of providing 3 - 6 dB more output depending upon where they are placed. The main requirement is getting a "good" sub.

As far as hooking up the second sub, normally it is daisy-chained off the first sub.
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