Finally I assembled my 5.0 home theater system. Now is time for the sub. - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you mean by daisy-chained?
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post #62 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:09 PM
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^^ Running a cable from receiver's sub output port(s) to sub 1 input port(s). Daisy-chaining is when you then run a cable from sub 1 output port(s) to sub 2 input port(s).
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post #63 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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What affordable subs have sub out feature?
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post #64 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:36 PM
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From those mentioned, the SVS. For the NXG and BICs you'd use a "Y" splitter from the receiver (one line going to each sub).
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post #65 of 88 Old 07-21-2014, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
I thought about having two sub-woofers eventually. I was thinking to add one to the high level outputs of the receiver to extend the Polks frequency range and try to make them sound like a bigger tower ... The second sub can be hooked to the sub preamp out of the receiver to provide whatever bass comes from that additional channel.

Is there a difference between what I just said and use a splitter to hook up both subs to the sub out of the receiver? Since I'm no expert all I can do is guess. I guess that since the first sub is actually hooked to the high level output of the receiver, that sub will enhance the bass that's supposed to come from the front/right channels. The one connected to the sub out will provide whatever bass was added by the filmmakers to that channel and will be a different bass channel.
The great thing about using the AVR (receiver) sub output is that you can configure it for true bass management - you configure the front, center, and surround speakers as "small" with say a 80Hz crossover frequency. The AVR will strip all the low bass below 80Hz out of the signal being fed to all those speakers so now they don't have to strain to produce lows at the very bottom of their range (the most difficult frequency for them to reproduce) and at the same time this frees up a lot of amplifier power (those low frequencies take the most power) for the mid-bass and mids. This allows your other speakers to sound better.

The sub will then get this bass below 80Hz from the other 5 speakers (along with the LFE information added to movie soundtracks) It is much better at reproducing those low frequencies because that is what it is designed to do. So your other 5 speakers will sound better in the highs and the mids and your bass will sound better coming from the sub - this is the magic of bass management. As you said, the bookshelf speakers with a sub will sound like (or even better) than tower speakers without a sub.

The second advantage of a sub (and even greater advantage of multiple subs) is that it can be placed in better "bass friendly" locations. It is almost never true that the best place in the room for bass is the same location as your main speakers, so it is a huge advantage to be able to move the subs where they give the best in-room bass response for your room. As others mentioned, when you have two subs in more ideal locations (and EQ them), you get even better and smoother in-room bass response.

Finally, to answer your questions, you want both subs reproducing the exact same bass so that it is more even throughout the room - this makes the other 5 speakers sound better and gives you the best LFE by giving you the best, most uniform bass in your room.

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post #66 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 02:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I decided to get the NXG Technology NX-BAS-500 from Radioshack. I'm not ready for anything more expensive right now. That one seems to be better than Bic in my situation so I'll pick that one. Consider this case closed. Thanks for your help.
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post #67 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
I decided to get the NXG Technology NX-BAS-500 from Radioshack. I'm not ready for anything more expensive right now. That one seems to be better than Bic in my situation so I'll pick that one. Consider this case closed. Thanks for your help.
Good choice. Enjoy the bass!
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post #68 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry guys but I keep browsing and reading and I found a sub I would like to compare with the NX-BAS-500. Is the Cadence CSX-12 Mark II that I found on eBay for $299.99. As you can see the price difference is about $40 and I was wondering if the extra investment is worth it. Does anybody knows anything here about that sub?
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post #69 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I found a review here.
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post #70 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 11:46 AM
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^^ Looks like a very nice find! But like anything used, one needs to be a bit careful. It's not like you can return it if there are problems, or the person didn't pack it correctly and it comes to you damaged.
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post #71 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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They have a 30 day return policy and the sub is brand new. I think I'll give this one a try over the NXG.
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post #72 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 12:05 PM
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http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-page-2

The NXG is going to be better at 20-31.5Hz, whereas the Cadence has the edge in the 40-63Hz range. Personally I would take the NXG, you get better performance where it matters for movies.

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post #73 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
They have a 30 day return policy and the sub is brand new. I think I'll give this one a try over the NXG.
My mistake. Sounds like a great deal and is certainly worth the audition. If it doesn't please you, then you can always send it back. I think both subs are very good choices, and many times the frequency where the Cadence shines (with surprising output) is the type of bass that hits you in the chest.
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post #74 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-page-2

The NXG is going to be better at 20-31.5Hz, whereas the Cadence has the edge in the 40-63Hz range. Personally I would take the NXG, you get better performance where it matters for movies.
I agree. The Cadence is not going to be as good for movie watching.

Just to throw a wrench into your plans, Outlaw Audio has a sale on their LFM-1 Plus subwoofer for $499 shipped. This is the best deal on a subwoofer at that price and a much better than the NXG and Cadence.

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post #75 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
They have a 30 day return policy and the sub is brand new. I think I'll give this one a try over the NXG.
Just flip a quarter and decide - neither one is bad for the price
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...bwoofer-page-4

However, if you can afford the Outlaw - then go for it

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post #76 of 88 Old 07-22-2014, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't want to spend $500 in a sub. At most I can get the NXG for $259 shipped in Radioshack. If in like 10 years my budget gets better and I can afford a better sub then maybe yes, but right now with my present budget I'm happy enough that I was able to find the NXG. The fact that I found a sub better than both Bics I was about to get for the same price is enough of a find to keep me happy for now. Let's say maybe tomorrow to all those $500 subs that are way out of my budget right now. Thanks everybody.
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post #77 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Question

People I received a complaint by some neighbors here in my building because of loud music. That means that now I can go now even less for an expensive sub. I won't even pick the NXG sub. I'll go for the Dayton Audio SUB-1200 because of the free shipping offer and additional $10 discount coupon. That will put my total shipped in $127.37 including taxes for a 12" sub. Now that's what I call a budget sub.
My next step now is to add surround back speakers. I'll pick the Monitor 30s for the task but I need an amplifier. A preliminary pick will be the Pyle PVA3U. Do you know of any that I can pair with the Pioneer VSX-822-K?
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post #78 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 06:23 PM
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People I received a complaint by some neighbors here in my building because of loud music. That means that now I can go now even less for an expensive sub.
I don't quite follow your logic. My understanding is that the NXG is a better sounding sub than the Dayton, not just a more powerful one. But I could be wrong.

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post #79 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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My logic is that due to neighbors complaints now I can go even less than before for an expensive sub. I don't even plan to get the NXG for $259 because I know is loud. I'll go for the Dayton Audio SUB-1200 for $127.37 and save some money in the process. That will leave me enough budget to get a pair of Monitor 30s for the surround rear speakers I plan to add for a more complete home theater. Now all I need is a budget amp that can power the Monitor 30s as loud as I'm allowed to run them here.
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post #80 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 07:15 PM
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When you setup your system, you will be adjusting the gain (volume) on the back of the sub to integrate with the speakers. So the NXG will get no louder than you want it to be. At lower volumes, my guess is that it's the better sounding sub.

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post #81 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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When you setup your system, you will be adjusting the gain (volume) on the back of the sub to integrate with the speakers. So the NXG will get no louder than you want it to be. At lower volumes, my guess is that it's the better sounding sub.
I don't care for that anymore because of the neighbors. I'm almost happy with my sound as it is right now. I just want my present speakers go a little bit deeper but since I don't wanna mod them I'll go for the sub. I don't want to become too nerdy with this. Let me ask you a question. If I add a sub that go deeper, will I be hearing additional sounds or will it be the same sounds but extended? Is just that when I read about sub upgrades people talk about stuff vibrating all over the house and that they didn't have that with the budget sub. That's precisely what I want to avoid because of the neighbors.

If adding an expensive sub will not help to hear additional sounds then I don't want it. If all I'm going to hear with the expensive sub is the same explosions but louder, then I don't want the expensive sub. My neighbors complained and the only two reasons to go for the sub anyway is that I read that I can set a crossover point so my speakers don't have to reproduce bass and use the power to enhance the mids and highs. The other reason is that a sub go deeper and I'm curious about how my system will perform with a sub. I'll try the Dayton and if I'm not satisfied with it I can always return it for a refund.

The other day I read an article saying that most music don't go deeper than about 40Hz. I have a feeling that with movies is not any different. If that's true then why do I need to even bother to get a sub that go deeper than that. I don't believe in spending money for equipment that at the end you barely use. I don't want to spend money to score high in some test. I'll try this with the Dayton and if I'm not happy I'll return it. Thanks for reading.
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post #82 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 08:00 PM
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Let me refer to what I said,

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At lower volumes, my guess is that it's the better sounding sub.
Sound better = better sound quality, not louder. Buying a sub is not just about how loud or how deep it goes. There is also a difference in how the bass sounds, particularly at the low end with budget subs. Drums sound more accurate. Special effects sound more realistic.

Take it as you will. That's my suggestion. You could ask others what they think that have heard both, or ignore it.

BTW: unless you buy a receiver with Audyssey MultiEQ, or have some other bass EQ capability, the Dayton may actually produce deeper bass sounds better depending on how the subs interact with your room.

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post #83 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Let me refer to what I said,



Sound better = better sound quality, not louder. Buying a sub is not just about how loud or how deep it goes. There is also a difference in how the bass sounds, particularly at the low end with budget subs. Drums sound more accurate. Special effects sound more realistic.

Take it as you will. That's my suggestion. You could ask others what they think that have heard both, or ignore it.

BTW: unless you buy a receiver with Audyssey MultiEQ, or have some other bass EQ capability, the Dayton may actually produce deeper bass sounds better depending on how the subs interact with your room.
You mentioned something really important I don't wanna loose and that thing is accuracy. If the NXG is more accurate than the Dayton then I'll get the NXG. But $259 is as expensive as I'll go buying a sub.

I don't have an Audyssey receiver buy I plan to get the nanoAVR 8x8 which I believe is as good as an Audyssey receiver. I'll have to wait a couple of months to get it but I'll eventually get it.

I was daydreaming a few months about a HDMI equalizer capable of equalizing every channel and the nanoAVR 8x8 does that and even more so I'll get it.
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post #84 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 08:55 PM
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Yes. The MiniDSP is very good.

I do not know for certain that the NXG is more accurate as I have not compared them. My best guess is that it would be. You might consult the NXG thread on AVS and see what people think. NXG Technology NX-BAS-500 12"

Yep. The mini DSP is very good. I would be interested to see how well the Nano works

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post #85 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 10:14 PM
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Well, living in an apartment with the neighbors complaining already, you might want to reconsider getting a sub at all. The bass frequencies are the ones that travel through walls the easiest by far. If people are complaining now, a sub will likely make you very unpopular in the apartment building.

If you insist on the sub, the Dayton should be worth it as an experiment for its low price. I would recommend placing it nearfield next to your main seating position so you can set the volume as low as possible.

Last edited by Gmash; 07-24-2014 at 10:17 PM.
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post #86 of 88 Old 07-24-2014, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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The complaint came because I wanted to test the system and let the music louder than usual for too long. From now on I plan to use it at the volume levels I usually use it. I plan to use the sub the same way. I had the receiver with the center and two front speakers for about 6 months and never had a complaint before. I think I'll have no more problems at the volume levels I plan to use the sub.
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post #87 of 88 Old 07-26-2014, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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People I decided for two Dayton Audio SUB-1200. I can get two of those for the price of the NXG. I was also thinking about adding a 31 band equalizer to my sub out. All of the 31 band EQs I have seen so far have 11 keys between 20 and 200Hz. That should help a lot to even the response of the subs, don't you think so? Can somebody share their experiences with EQs and/or tell me your opinion about adding an EQ?
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post #88 of 88 Old 07-27-2014, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLouis1971 View Post
People I decided for two Dayton Audio SUB-1200. I can get two of those for the price of the NXG. I was also thinking about adding a 31 band equalizer to my sub out. All of the 31 band EQs I have seen so far have 11 keys between 20 and 200Hz. That should help a lot to even the response of the subs, don't you think so? Can somebody share their experiences with EQs and/or tell me your opinion about adding an EQ?
A mini-dsp would be much better for a sub EQ.

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