In-Ceiling speakers for a new place - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 07-14-2014, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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In-Ceiling speakers for a new place

*Newbie*

Hi AVS Forum experts and team -

I apologize if I may not be posting to the correct location or may not be framing my question properly however I figured I would poll the forum to get some feedback.

I am moving condos in Chicago due to a need for more space for kiddo #2 and I am moving into a brand new construction which happens to have the pre-wiring completed for in-ceiling speakers that I would like to take advantage of. This is primarily due to space, the wiring and overall convenience. The builders dropped off a quote for some communication company to come in and setup everything as well as purchase the speakers, amps, receiver, woofer etc which I am hesitant on as they quoted some speakers that were discontinued from Proficient when I did some research. I feel that I could do better.

I am coming from a Sony 5.1 speaker system and home entertainment system for my current home setup and had upgraded my receiver to a Yamaha RX-A720 to help handle my always increasing HDMI inputs from what seems everything now (like chromecast, TV, PS3, Wii, Boxee, etc).

ref:
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model

I need 5 x speakers in the living room and 2 x in the bedroom and I am looking at perhaps from $75-$150 per speaker (if I have to go that high) for basic movie watching and music listening.

My questions are:

- Is there a decent brand that I should consider (Polk or Klipsch or some other brand) and any recommendations on model numbers?
ie - random find is: http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RC8...speaker+-+SC60

- I tried to read up on the receiver and speaker performance, range compatibility but to be honest I am not sure if I fully grasp what I require (I just know that the range of the speakers was one element as well as the wattage)? Are there concerns of supportability?

- Do I need a separate Amp based on what I currently have with my receiver that has 2 x zone controls?

- My current sub-woofer (from the Sony home package system) had a digital audio output but it seems that some of the nice ones do not necessarily have them. How are they connected? Via line-in or some other methods?

I appreciate the help and feedback in advance as I know that it is time consuming to read through and reply as well.

Thanks.

-Richard
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post #2 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 05:21 AM
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It may not directly address your question, but the number one response you'll get is don't use in ceiling speakers of that type. They're fine for restaurants, hotel lobbies and elevators, but not HT, unless you really don't care how it sounds. Some in-ceilings work fairly well, but they don't look like those in your link, they look like this:


OTOH you're quite correct not to employ that 'communications' company. Any company that would recommend that style of in-ceiling speaker might be qualified enough to do installs in restaurants, hotel lobbies and elevators, but I wouldn't trust them with a real HT install.

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post #3 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 07:15 AM
 
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I think your budget is low for what you are trying to achieve. For the front three speakers you want speakers that aim towards your listening position. Most in ceiling speakers aim down and that does not give good sound in the listening area. You want ones that angle at least 30 degrees, preferably more. The least expensive ones I know of that have a 30 degree angle are this Paradigm model.
http://paradigm.com/products-current.../page=overview


The one Bill suggested has a retail of $750 each but they do have their own enclosure which is desirable if budget allows. Proficient doesn't make bad speakers and are decent for general background music but they do not have any models that angle more than 15 degrees. Also, what location did the builder wire for the speakers? typically they love to put speakers in corners but that is not the best place acoustically. As a general statement builders do a poor job of wiring for HT needs.


Given your budget you might be better not using the ceiling speakers for the front speakers and using bookshelf or on wall speakers instead. It will be much easier to find some small speakers that will fit your budget. Depending on their location you can maybe use inexpensive in ceiling speakers for the surrounds and your bedroom.
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post #4 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttlnb View Post
The least expensive ones I know of that have a 30 degree angle are this Paradigm model.
http://paradigm.com/products-current.../page=overview
Even that won't do you much good if your listening position isn't 30 degrees offset from the speaker position. Plus there's no enclosure, so bass response will be pretty poor, with leakage through the floor above severe. They're better than down-firing, but just.

Given your budget you might be better not using the ceiling speakers for the front speakers and using bookshelf or on wall speakers instead. It will be much easier to find some small speakers that will fit your budget. Depending on their location you can maybe use inexpensive in ceiling speakers for the surrounds and your bedroom.

+1. I wouldn't bother with bedroom remotes either. More often than not whoever is in there won't be wanting to hear what's playing on the TV.

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post #5 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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@ttlnb and @Bill

Thank you for taking the time and your responses. I guess I never put it into perspective of the cost per speaker in comparison to a free-standing speaker as well which would typically run perhaps more for a good quality speaker. I was unfortunately comparing it to what was quoted for me as well as what I may have paid for a home theater in a box system for everything as well ($500 - $600 total - I think). In the grand scheme of things, I guess you are right that it is not as much.

The speaker drops I believe are (if you picture a typical fireplace - I also added a picture I just took of it when I dropped by today) front center and then to the left and right where they are most likely in-front of you on the ceiling perhaps a 7 feet in front of where you may site on a couch and then the back left and back right are also behind perhaps more closely a few feet back. I wish I would of had a choice on the placement of the speakers perhaps even being able to have them in front on the vertical wall in front.

- Would satellite speakers be a better option than in-ceiling at least although they would cosmetically perhaps stick out like a spotlight lamp?
- or perhaps the front/ center/ right are not using the ceiling and back left and right are?

The tough part is not leveraging all of the cabling centralization.

In regards to the receiver/ AMP:

Based on my yamaha receiver specs:

Channel 7.2
Rated Output Power (1kHz, 2ch driven) 105 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 90 W (8 ohms, 0.09% THD)
Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) 130 / 170 / 200 / 240 W

- What does this dictate for me in terms of what type of speaker specs I would need to consider when selecting one?

- Would I also need to have an amplifier as well in addition to what I have?

Thanks for the discussion.
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post #6 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 03:12 PM
 
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Is there conduit from the equipment in the corner? If so I would run speaker wires through them and do a passive sound bar or on wall left/center/right speakers flanking the TV. The locations of the in ceiling speakers are not good but typical of what builders do.


What model # for the Yamaha. I bet it will be fine and you shouldn't need a separate amp.
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post #7 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 03:17 PM
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Assuming you plan to put the TV above the fireplace put a center under it, wall hang a bookshelf to either side, put a sub in the right hand corner under the window. You can make use of the in-ceiling holes and wiring for rear surrounds, forget the rest. You don't need any external amps. Oft referenced Pioneer speakers are inexpensive but will sound far better than anything that will fit in those holes.
BTW, carpet is a must. Wood floors look nice, sound bad.

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post #8 of 9 Old 07-15-2014, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.

I believe the ceiling spots for the speakers are the only spots that are wired back to the center conduit of the wiring on the side of the wall per the picture. The receiver that I have is the Yamaha RX-A720.

I think I like the idea of having a center/ left/ right above the fireplace and then basically using the rear speakers in the ceiling. That way I could at least thread the speaker wires across the wall down the fireplace.

Thanks for the comments.
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post #9 of 9 Old 07-16-2014, 04:56 AM
 
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What is the box cut out above the fire place? Any wiring in it? Where does the wiring go? Is there conduit? What's above this room attic or second floor?


Ps. That Yamaha will do fine for powering a system.
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