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post #271 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 07:19 PM
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Don't get dehydrated and die off on us
We want to see more stuffs!

Were are the pics?

Equipment List: Preamp/Processor: Sherbourn PT-7030 [] Speakers: Funk Audio - Line Array(2kW),18.2 Subwoofer (9.6kW)[]Projector: Epson 5020ub []Screen: Elunevision Reference 150"
PC/HTPC: Intel Q6600 [] GTX670 [] 4 GB Ram [] Windows 8.1 x64
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post #272 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crackhead2k View Post
I'm working in a warehouse. But least we aren't under that projector.

Its great for the winter time though!....lol
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post #273 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post
So you just make up an outrageous tangential statement, attribute it to me and ask me to defend something you made up? LOL I've not said even close to what you've just made up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test

Read that. Perhaps then you'll understand what I'm stating and not make up things.
HAHA.... good luck with that, it'll take you all day to do this with more then two pairs of speakers. The playlist from out GTG was 45mins long, also I don't think I've ever read about a GTG that was done to this exact format so I look forward to reading about the GTG you'll be hosting and using this ABX testing format.
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post #274 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I would love to see a blind speaker GTG with the same speaker and hear the results people gave.
I think that would be fun experiment. That would work even in a non blind test. I hope someone stores the idea in the back of their mind and pulls it off sometime in the future.
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post #275 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackhead2k View Post
Don't get dehydrated and die off on us
We want to see more stuffs!

Were are the pics?
already on its way to Oklahoma
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post #276 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 08:05 PM
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Wait, test?!? This was a speaker test???? That's not what I thought it was. I guess I wasted my time having a good time. I can use a microphone at home to test my speakers better than blindfolds.


Jeff.

Thanks for the apology. Sincerely, thanks for recognizing I feel strongly about these types of accusations, as I receive them often. But I must press the issue a little further. You say I'm invested and want to see my speaker sell well... That just plainly isn't true actually. I want to help people get (any) great speakers into their HTs. There's a difference. And it isn't slight. Why would I care if the 1099 sells well? That just doesn't compute in my brain. I suppose you could say if my speakers are popular then one day maybe I can make money at selling them. This is true, but I've already been offered a designer fee from Erich and turned it down, more than once. So that doesn't stick.

The speaker I mentioned that won in a blind test was built by a small custom speaker builder who liked it enough to want to sell it. He asked how much he would have to pay to use the design, I told him to just go for it free of charge. (He's small time or maybe it would be different). I've been offered other forms of revenue for designs. The most I've ever taken was a pair of drivers from Planet10 hifi which was more an appreciation gift for my work than payment.

The point is, I already have confidence in my work. I do this for myself. I enjoy seeing others build all speakers types (heck, aaronlinkus' Fusion 8 thread is among my favs, also Donny's Fusion 8 thread). I enjoy the opportunity to design, not how well they sell.

Perhaps I'm just as crazy as Erich.... No, definitely not!!!
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post #277 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Tux, I know I for one am glad you enjoy designing speakers! Hopefully the build you're helping me with will be a home run like the 1099's are!...lol
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post #278 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff in Canada View Post
I am stating that the nature of your test was flawed.
Jeff I think you are trying to read into this thread too much.
Based on my discussions with Joe, I don't think he ever intended this GTG to be a shootout/speaker tester thread.

I think he was just collecting subjective opinions from people knowing full well that they would be biased, and a few charts thrown in because there was time left at the end.

I think their measurements are valid because all the speakers measured were in identical conditions (to the best of my knowledge at least).
Stopping short of a professional anechoic chamber, of course.


I think I was the least biased person who visited Joe's place, because:
1) I didn't go there with a plan/need/desire to buy/sell speakers.
2) Could care less what the speakers looked like.
3) I already have beyond quad 18's for bass, so I knew I wasn't going to be impressed compared to someone who has never heard such level of bass before.
4) I have a natural predisposition of ignoring people's opinions, especially true if they are an AV sales person, the more they talk the less I like them. LOL
5) I'm really hard to please when it comes to SQ.
6) The more expensive a speaker is, the higher my expectations of it become; it better have flawless SQ and headroom or I will drop it like a used condom. I don't have time for crappy equipment, or time to bleed...

That said, I think the Tempest 12's and JTR 228's were in the top 7 best speakers I've ever heard.

and the relative performance of the HE-style speakers (IMO) are as follows:

#4 Tempest 12 85% <- bad mids
#3 JTR 228 90% <- dispersion far too narrow
#2 My current speakers 95% <- could use more transparency in the mids and highs
#1 I'll leave this open for when I hear the perfect HE speaker. (Good Luck with that!!! )

One day I will have to hear these 1099's you speak of.

Last edited by BassThatHz; 07-30-2014 at 09:06 PM.
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post #279 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 08:23 PM
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Ryan , you will like my 1099 cc build. I will be trying to do a tricky build with very basic tools. Kind of a challenge I'm looking forward to. Going back to basics I think will improve my skills. Spent an hour last night looking at

http://www.glveneer.com/gallery.html...v=0730GL894769

There prices are good. You ever used these guys ?

I like these two



I can buy both in 4 by 8 sheet 10 mil for 130. Then the one I like better goes on the speaker and save the other one for something else.
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post #280 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 09:42 PM
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Joe said that during the GTG he was running his subs at -5db, when I was there we were running them at 0db, and at one point we set a pair of them at around +10db.
We should have set all 4 to +10db, that would have been something special, but I think we would have broken some china or drywall.

During the whole time I was there, we never exceeded 113db at the first row with the quad UXL-18's on my TermLab.


I still want to hear those UXL-18's at full throttle one day.

and in-case you were wondering, we still had 40db of headroom left on my DAC/Pre, that's right, we never got beyond -40db on the Oppo 105/Emotiva XSP-1!!!


With the ported HO-15 at a distance of 6 inches we got to 113.4db @ 50hz.



It did 107db @ 24hz. I think the HO-15 would have really struggled to get another 5db louder without bottoming out.
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post #281 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 09:52 PM
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Yes 112dbs at 24 hz would be at its limit or bottoming out. That's why I have three of them with one a foot away. 99% of the time I don't go louder then reference and 95% of the time I don't go louder then -5 from reference. I'm a midrangeaholic. If I were to rank the three areas it would be

10 midrange
7. Bass
5 highs.

I'm guessing Shawn is

20 bass
10 mids
10 highs

Joe
10 bass
10 mids
10 highs
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post #282 of 309 Old 07-30-2014, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Shawn for the GTG we ran the Funk sub with my AVR level at -5, for my subs I turned them back down to -10. Running them at 0 is just way too much for me.
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post #283 of 309 Old 07-31-2014, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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So I took two of my 228HT's over to chalugadp's to let him try them out for a week or two and I also brought my laptop and UMIK-1 mic to take a few measurements of them along with measuring his three micro cube subs that he built. Well all I can say is that I wish my 228's measured as well in my room as they did in Donny's room


Here's the left speaker measurement with 1/6 smoothing applied.



Here's the right speaker.



And both together.



I'm sure with a little EQ work that could get a pretty flat response.
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post #284 of 309 Old 07-31-2014, 10:41 PM
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I'm watching a movie with 228's and there so detailed. Must be my perfect room
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post #285 of 309 Old 07-31-2014, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Watching movies with them is my favorite thing to do.
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post #286 of 309 Old 08-01-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Well all I can say is that I wish my 228's measured as well in my room as they did in Donny's room
Your room treatment panels come in yet?
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post #287 of 309 Old 08-01-2014, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Your room treatment panels come in yet?
Actually I just got an email today that they are ready to ship. I'm making the shipping arrangements though because I get a deal through my company so it's almost half the cost to ship them.


I'm going to order some more next month too, six 2'x4' panels for the ceiling first reflection point and I'm working with them for a custom 3'x6' panel that I'll be able to hang when I have that opening into the theater. So almost like a floating panel.
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post #288 of 309 Old 08-03-2014, 10:08 PM
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I think I understand the thrust of Jeff's argument.

I was at the GTG at Joe's place. If it had devolved into a "technical jargon, mumbo-jumbofest", I would have suddenly felt ill, or made some other excuse to get my ass out of there. For most of the speakers, I couldn't really tell the difference. I think they all sounded good. Some sounded better. Often, I just found myself enjoying the music or the movie clips as opposed to listening with a technical ear. Kudos to Donny (chalugadp) and the other guys who were able to really listen critically.

The way things happened at this event is technical enough for me. I'd most certainly have no interest in a dbt GTG. I don't want to wait while guys piss around with wires and calibration...blah blah blah. I understand there needs to be some level of it. I get that. That's fine. I prefer to restrict the tweaking to my own space. And frankly, those of us in attendance were pretty much at the limits of what we could listen to in one day.

To me the event was just some audio hobbyists getting together to listen to some speakers. That's it. Kinda like going to the nudie bar; there's a lot of good looking strippers and some that are outstanding. Everyone has different tastes!

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was lucky enough to become the proud owner of the 1099s that Ryan built. I committed to buying them without ever hearing them. Joe had heard them and said they sounded fantastic. Good enough for me. He's got a more critical ear and owns the 228s,which I have heard and just love. He said the 1099s were almost as good as his speakers. Sold.

I rarely post here as I find it to be too time consuming, and I feel I don't have the knowledge to add anything to the discussion most of the time. I do lots of lurking/reading here. My wife often chides me for spending time in front of the computer screen. "Why are you on that forum when you could actually be enjoying all the money you spent on those speakers and subs?" As usual, she's right.
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Last edited by stsand; 08-04-2014 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Additional info
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post #289 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 05:16 AM
 
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If I had a chance to attend a gtg I'd choose the one with the most fun and the one with the most stuff to listen to, I would not choose the one that's the most scientific with double controlled blind testing . Yuck.

I'd want to have fun, not be an experiment. This isn't life or death hear guys. Pretty good is good enough. Reasonably treat room, reasonably set up every speaker to the best of ability to give it a fair chance and let it fly. Listen. Enjoy. Discuss. Have fun.

Next time there is a gtg count me in if it's "fun".

If you need a double blind controlled science study using 50 subjects just to differentiate one speaker from another or which is "better" I'd suggest that all the speakers are awesome and you are wasting your time. If you can't tell the difference easily they are both good. A GTG is about the experience of hanging out and getting to hear a lot of different speakers in one place with some friends that share the same passion. It's about learning and experience and the education of the experience. I'm not understanding why there has to be a "winner" ? Is it even fair to compare $350 speaker to a $2000 one in the first place ? I mean it's fun! That's why you do it. But really... If you take the fun out or try to create a science experiment to pick a winner you are missing the point of a gtg I think.
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post #290 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 09:01 AM
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No, Jeff was mad because people were giving very specific technical recommendations on speakers and what's best and worst, and then saying it is definitely not a technical gtg and it was just for fun.

Jeff was saying do a double blind test if you're going to give technical recommendations on speakers, if you're not doing a technical test like a double blind test, then you can't compare speakers technically.

Nobody has an issue with fun get togethers, but people do when you are declaring a winner of a fun get together.
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post #291 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 09:07 AM
 
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I did not think there way anything wrong or worth all this debate over. That was my point, it wasn't a winner. Nothing wrong with playing a bunch of speakers and saying what you thought about them. I never saw where there was a clear winner or any kind of promotion going on, it just some dudes having fun with speakers. Hardly worth all this side discussion. I liked hearing about the actual events and GTG a lot more.
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post #292 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 09:12 AM
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yup, half the discussion was over misunderstandings I think haha.
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post #293 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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yup, half the discussion was over misunderstandings I think haha.
Lets be honest here, Jeff was upset because the Tempest weren't everyone's favorite speaker. Do you think for one second he would have posted everything that he did if everyone was saying hands down the Tempest were the best speaker there?.....lol


I think not, but really like we always maintained it was a fun event and really there was no winner or loser. All of the speakers there are great speakers, it's like shades of grey. Someone might think a different shade was better then the shade that I thought was best. All of the speakers were auditioned under the same listening conditions, no speaker had any sort of advantage over any other speaker. It wasn't like we listened to my 228HT's first where I had EQ'd them perfectly for the room and then let the other speakers go after mine.


Maybe over the winter I'll host another event with some of the local guys again and we'll see what speakers we can round up, I still think it's best to keep it to about four pairs as more then that just gets to be too much in my opinion. Over the fall I'm going to really work on dialing in my room treatments.

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post #294 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 11:03 AM
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If a "winner" speaker really existed (not speaking of this gtg just in general) we would all own it. Everyone's taste is different.

Still, I like reading about other's preferences, I find it interesting.
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post #295 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Well said Carp! I hope that puts things into perspective for everyone that's read this thread.
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post #296 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 11:15 AM
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After a couple of days with Joe's 228's I really hate these white van speakers

I told joe I don't think he needs to upgrade. They are clear, clean , and sweet. I tweaked the bass and treble. I added. a couple db's to both areas. Any improvement from these would be very minor IMO .

Can't wait to get my 1099 to compare.
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post #297 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 09:49 PM
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I think I'm going to rent some Yorkville U15P's this week just for fun. Most prosoundweb guys think the "P" powered version sounds better than the non-powered. Amps and EQ all built in. I don't have room for the U215's. I had the 1099's in here before the GTG so I can remember some of how they sounded so this could be fun. I think we should also rent the U215's at the next GTG at Joe's.
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post #298 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post
I think I'm going to rent some Yorkville U15P's this week just for fun. Most prosoundweb guys think the "P" powered version sounds better than the non-powered. Amps and EQ all built in. I don't have room for the U215's. I had the 1099's in here before the GTG so I can remember some of how they sounded so this could be fun. I think we should also rent the U215's at the next GTG at Joe's.

Joe did have them rented and the store screwed up I believe. Post a nice review of the 215's, I will read it for sure.
How about a gtg at your place tyee ?
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post #299 of 309 Old 08-04-2014, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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If there's enough interest I could host another GTG over the winter. Donny's correct the store kind of screwed things up on the pair that I tried to rent, if I have another GTG I will for 100% get a pair in. I'd like to limit it to four pairs of speakers though, maybe five.
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post #300 of 309 Old 08-07-2014, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
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If there's enough interest I could host another GTG over the winter. Donny's correct the store kind of screwed things up on the pair that I tried to rent, if I have another GTG I will for 100% get a pair in. I'd like to limit it to four pairs of speakers though, maybe five.
I wish I was closer.. you could count me in. But it's WAYYYYY to far....
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