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Old 07-19-2014, 06:43 PM
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It was so hot even Joe sweated [emoji16]
I will post my notes tonight. Need a couple of hours of quiet. Heading home. Great show put on by Joe. Everyone was cool, and a lot of fun.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:21 PM
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Had a great time. Thanks Joe. Got to meet great people. Nice to meet ST, Warren, and many more. Was great to meet Donny. You weren't anything like I imagined. Very chill guy. Your posts made me expect a guy who's amped up and over the top. Very nice chatting with you.

I'll leave speaker impressions later. I gotta spend some time with my family.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I just wanted to thank everyone for coming out, I hope you all enjoyed yourselves. Thanks to Nathan and Mark from Funk Audio for bringing out there 8.2P & 6.1P speakers and monster 18.2 sub! As I'm a big Red Sox fan so in my fake Boston accent it was "wicked awesome"!!....lol
Thanks to David for making the trek down from Kelowna and bringing some snacks, and Raf that's for the donuts although you probably should have left them with me!...lol
Big thanks to ST for bring sandwiches from his Subway store!!!! Ryan really nice to finally meet the man, the myth, the legend!..lol and your 1099's! although I really liked your TWW design. Donny thanks for putting together the playlist, that really helped things run smoothly.


I know I had a great time and I'll try to post some comments later, right now I have to spend some time with the wife and kids!...lol
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh and Ryan if you could thank your lovely wife Annie for me for letting you come out while she was stuck in 3hrs of border traffic while you got to listen to speakers!...lol
That would be very much appreciated.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:23 PM
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Great time me listening to fine tunes.

Pleasant company and some interesting discussions.

I have been wanting to hear those SEOS horns for quite a while.

A very interesting and well enjoyed day.

Thanks for your hospitality Joe.

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Old 07-19-2014, 08:30 PM
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Ok I need to get my thoughts out while they are still fresh in my mind. I am using my notes i took to try to pinpoint certain things. As with any subjective opinion it is jaded, colored, biased and my own. I like smooth clean vocals, punchy powerful guitars and drums, Good seperation in soundstage, and for movies I like dynamic heart stopping sound. These are my likings. I will try to point out what i thought each speaker did well.

We spent a good 6 hours listening ( I was there for all but two minutes of it) to 6 speakers. We didn't have time to take a lot of measurements but Ryan (tux) did do an impedance sweep of the 228,tempest, and 1099 which he will send me and I will post. We did our best to level match to a reasonable level. I measured frequently with my spl meter and we were within 2 dbs for all and often under 1db. Not perfect but in the ballpark. All speakers were in same spot and I primarily sat in the same spot the whole time. I was center , just behind main lp. I could lean forward three feet and have my head right beside person sitting in lp and i did this around 6-8 times for each speaker.

I am going to break down the speakers into two groups. First group

a) Funk 6.1
b) 1099
c) jtr 228

a) Vocals 9.5/10
Instruments 9/10
Imaging/Soundstage 10/10
Dynamics/Movies 15/20
The funk 8.2 went first and frankly they didn't sound nearly as good as i thought they were. Too laid back. Nathan said they work much better in a larger room. next came the 6.1 and they didn't disappoint for music. They were number one to me for music. Vocals were smooth, lifelike, tonally perfect, just plain badass. Both males and females. Diana Krall and Holly Cole both sounded husky as they are yet liquid gold. A perfect 10 would be the person in the room singing and these came very close to that. Instruments were smooth, tight, and accurate. Drums/guitars were just a little light for my liking. This is totally personal preference. On Trilok song all four instruments could clearly be visualized in distinct spaces. Really,really cool ! For movies the sound was not nearly as good. We were listening about 5 from reference and they were just not snappy and dynamic as waveguide speakers. Reminded me of my B&W speakers I had a few years ago. Not terrible, but not exciting like I want.

b) Voices 8.5/10
Instruments 10/10
Imaging/Soundstage 9/10
Dynamic/Movies 19/20

1099........... The anticipation was huge and they didn't disappoint. Voices were very good especially males. Holly Cole was just a touch less real then the 6.1. hard to explain it but on U2 Running to stand still bono was spot on. Guitars and drums were..... magical. Just the way I want it. Guitars were roaring in Joe Satriani Starry Night and Back in Black by ac/dc. Drums were crisp, clean, powerful, yes I can stop drooling. Imaging and soundstage were really good, just a shade less then 6.1. Movies were...... dynamic !!!! Crash scene from super 8 was jarring. I had this drum ball video clip and the 1099 were shining. These speakers were my favorite for movies. Maybe a tad to hot in upper treble if I want to knitpick.

c) Jtr 228.
Voices 9/10
Instruments 9/10
Imaging/Soundstage 9.5/10
Dynamics/Movies 18/20

I refer to the jtr as buttery smooth. Voices were great especially Krall on Peel me a grape. Full bodied but no reasonance or smearing that gets in the way. In between the 6.1 and 1099. No weaknesses. For instruments the jtr were a touch too smooth for me. Guitars and drums were not as snappy as 1099. Again this is personal preference. I could easily see someone saying that they were perfect. I just like that extra little edge of the 1099. Soundstage was awesome. Clear, pinpoint, just great. In start of live hotel california they really give great imaging from left and right. (can see why joe loves them for that song). For movies again they were very good. You could turn it up probably crazy loud and not miss a beat. We went as high as reference and still butter. Again personal preference of liking a little more bite from 1099. I am sure you could eq this. We used no eq on any speaker.

So summing it up the 6.1 were simply incredible for music, so-so for movies. Jtr and 1099 very, very good for music and phenomenal for movies.

Part two post will cover other speakers
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
They measured very close, the 1099 perhaps being slightly smoother overall (but with slightly less bass down low?).

I thought the 1099's and 228's sounded very similar and honestly if you had a DSP to play with them I sure you could almost make them sound identical. I still preferred the top end on the 228's but a lot of that could be from me being use to there sound.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:45 PM
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I am not going to review the 8.2 since they were just off a bit and didn't seem to like the room. beautiful looking for sure.

Second group
a) tempest
b) tux dual 12

Now i am going to concede that something must be off a bit about the tempest. I have read every review on diysoundgroup and read every gtg that has had them. If I were to sum them up from what I have read they were about 90% as good as the jtr 228 and considering the cost thats very impressive. Here they were only 70-75% as good. I am not going to grade with numbers cuz I don't think its fair. Voices still sounded veiled. Talked to three other people and they heard the same. Defintely better midbass then most of the other speakers. I said to ryan that it sounded good at everything but not great at any one area. He found them similar. Movies were about the same. Just not the pop and dynamics I expected. I am positive that with proper tweaking they would sound better.

Dual 12

This speaker is still in development but has great potential. Voices a bit restrained and treble a bit hot for me. They would sound great as concert speakers right now. With more tweaking could be a real gem. Not in the class of 1099 right now.

What I am left with is that the 1099 is the speaker for me. it meets my needs of movies first, and then music. Its is crazy powerful and highly detailed. Could flip a coin between it and the jtr. The price of the 1099 makes it a no brainer for me. If I had a dedicated 2 channel room i would buy the funk 6.1 with no hesitation. Its unfortunate that the tempest wasn't up to the general consensus of those who have heard them. However I think the 1099 are even closer to the jtr 228 (then the tempest). Ryan has a real winner on his hands. Yes fatshaft you are right. They are goooooood.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:11 PM
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Forgot to talk about sub's. For most of the time we listened to funk audio 18.2 c. Apparently its 8 k. Best sounding sub I have ever heard. It can hit 130 dB's and is tight,tight,tight. Could never afford one but wow.
Joes 4 sub's are insanely powerful. They need to be tamed with eq and some room treatments to get them refined. There so powerful right now its like a Ferrari on a go cart track.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I am not going to review the 8.2 since they were just off a bit and didn't seem to like the room. beautiful looking for sure.
But it's obvious that the DIY Tempest had some type of issues as well from the frequency response posted a while ago......

Did anyone double check to make sure they were assembled correctly or look inside to figure out what was wrong? They shouldn't have 20db swings in the midrange like the FR showed.

I'm not sure if the person that assembled them bought the flat pack or built their own enclosure, but I'm curious what the inside of the box looks like.

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Old 07-19-2014, 09:25 PM
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Ok posting from my phone while I lay here getting my kids to fall asleep.

Again, had a great time.

Overall, I was very impressed with the quality of speakers we got to hear. These are top dogs, hifi, big guns. And I'll say upfront that this was the problem with the tempests. Their competition was just so good. A $100 12" woofer 2 way can't quite match 3 ways, top tier components, and advanced design. I measured the impedance first thing in the morning and confirmed with Bagby that was correct. That combined with the assembled XOers and my listening, I doubt there's a problem. The sound was consistent with Bagby's measurements and there were no holes or peaks in the response I could detect. There was a relative (to the competition) lack of resolution in the mids. They did an excellent job of midbass and confirmed its 44hz tuning. Very low. Grunty bass from this thing. A real rock and roll speaker and did an excellent job of ACDC.

The Funk stuff was a different breed from most of what was heard. Had a laid back sound, yet detailed and smooth. I'd predict a very smooth frequency response. The planar tweeter is very clean sounding. Lots of good about this speaker. Its weaknesses IMO were dynamic capability and top end snap. Loud peaks were crunched up, particularly the smaller pair. I found both pairs sounded quite similar tonally. Its obvious both were voiced by the same person. And in general the voicing was well done. Especially if you like a laid back easy sound.

To be continued.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
But it's obvious that the DIY Tempest had some type of issues as well from the frequency response posted a while ago......

Did anyone double check to make sure they were assembled correctly or figure out what was wrong? They shouldn't have 20db swings in the midrange or no one would like them.

I'm not sure if the person that assembled them bought the flat pack or built their own enclosure, but I'm curious what the inside of the box looks like.
Erich, the posted FR just shines a bad light on the speaker. Those spikes are reflections, and the other two have dual woofers which reduces the reflections. I think that dip at 2khz is just mic placement causing a cancellation. The XO is 1350hz so the woofer is gonna play up to 2khz and possibly caused a back interaction at the mic.

I think its just an unfortunate measurement and subjectively the tempest is a step behind this competition. See my notes above.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
But it's obvious that the DIY Tempest had some type of issues as well from the frequency response posted a while ago......

Did anyone double check to make sure they were assembled correctly or figure out what was wrong? They shouldn't have 20db swings in the midrange or no one would like them.

I'm not sure if the person that assembled them bought the flat pack or built their own enclosure, but I'm curious what the inside of the box looks like.
I didn't.give.any grading to either speaker. if I did give the tempest a grade on what I heard it would be a 7 for voices, 8 for instruments, 8 for imaging. movie would be 16/20. I wish someone else was here who had them to compare to theirs. either way I just don't think there in the class of 1099. I think its really tough for a 12" midrange to be as articulate as a 5-8" mid. just my two cents.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:53 PM
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The 1099,,, well what do I say about my own speaker. I wasn't gonna say anything but let me say when I heard the Funks and the test tracks I was a little concerned. In particular a saxophone track with some high frequency blast from the sax. The laid back sound of the funks made me concerned that the brightness of the 1099 would sound quite shrill on that track. Thanks so much to Donny for picking great recordings because this sounded great thankfully. My worries melted away quickly as I listened. I was however floating around in bad seats as I've heard these lots. All in all I thought they sounded great and felt confirmation that these speakers can hang with very nice speakers. So that's all I'll say.

My TMM sounded a tad bright but generally acceptable. Very smooth top end, just elevated maybe a db to high. it didn't get to show off its best quality, which is the massive mid bass capability. And like the tempest, the midrange has a hard time keeping clarity like the more advanced designs. Although I though the lower (900hz) XO in mine did retain a little more clarity. Not like the 1099 though.

The JTR 228HT. Hmm, where do I start. First, remarkably similar to the 1099. I felt a little worn out when we put these on and needed a breather after these. I had to be careful while evaluating them. They were hard to tell apart. Being extremely focused I did hear some midbass boom on a couple low male vocals and a couple of low sax notes right at the attack of the note. I think JTR tuned these high to add that low end grunt. As a result, these will have a very grunty husky low end which can sound very nice, but does add coloration to the tonality. The impedance test showed about 69hz tuning and a 4ohm load. I also detected a slight more pronounced 6-8khz range over the 1099 which made for detail but sibilance on some female vocals and other instruments. A little bit of a built in smile face eq on this speaker. But I'm being extra detailed in this comparison as it was so similar to the 1099. And as I said, fatigue was setting in. And I gotta say that all in all this is an awesome speaker. Very nice sounding. I think if someone is buying a commercial speaker, the $1300 is quite good. There is a ton of performance packed into this speaker. Dissecting what Jeff (JTR) did with it, revealed some excellent design decisions. Bravo to a speaker manufacturer who gives real specs and delivers a great product. Fit and finish could have been better.

I think that's all the speakers. What was my favorite? The 1099. I know I know. But it was really the sound I like with incredible dynamics. And I know what it can do. We were just tickling them. You can chuck anything at them and they just laugh it off.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:50 PM
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Another thing I liked about the gtg was comparing what I heard with others. Most of the time we agreed about the sound. Just need another 6-8 of these to get good at it. In preparing the playlist I learned that for music its easy to have a wide variety but I would have lengthened a couple of clips. 90 seconds is too short. Sweet spot seems to be 2:15 to 3 minutes. Its also good to have some simple songs. Easy listening per se.

For movies I would have had a scene without any bass. Just a lot of midrange. My movie clips were good but a bit too similar. Overall I was happy since it did its purpose and gave the speakers a workout.
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Old 07-19-2014, 10:52 PM
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All of the following is just my opinion:

When I was at jbrown's, I was not impressed by the soundstage that the JTR 228HT's projected, its dispersion is TOO NARROW.
Other than that, I liked it's frequency response / overall tonality.
The SEOS12 tweeters had a much wider dispersion, which I found to be more "accurate" or whatever you want to call it.

So based on that and looking at the graphs, my ears would "probably" have picked the 1099 as the winner if I were there today, simply because it shares that configuration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I think its really tough for a 12" midrange to be as articulate as a 5-8" mid. just my two cents.
Maybe that's just how the Eminence 12 sounds, or perhaps it was defective. Either way, whatever it was, I didn't like the Eminence 12 as a mid at all.

All I know is that my Celestion 15" mids sound better than it does; very much similar to the JTR mids I'd say.
But that's in a totally different room, and perhaps I'm biased because they are in my mains after all...

-my 2 cents

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Old 07-19-2014, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
All of the following is just my opinion:

When I was at jbrown's, I was not impressed by the soundstage that the JTR 228HT's projected, it's dispersion is TOO NARROW. Other that that, I liked it's frequency response / overall tonality. The SEOS12 tweeters had a much wider dispersion, which I found to be more "accurate" or whatever you want to call it.

So based on that and looking at the graphs, my ears would "probably" have picked the 1099 as the winner if I were there today, simply because it shares that configuration.



Maybe that's just how the Eminence 12 sounds, or perhaps it was defective. Either way, whatever it was, I didn't like the Eminence 12 as a mid at all.

All I know is that my Celestion 15" mid sounded better than it does; very much similar to the JTR mids I'd say.
But that's in a totally different room, and perhaps I'm biased because they are in my mains after all...

-my 2 cents
for music I'm not sure how the 15" celestion mids could be more articulate or detailed then the 5" in 1099 or 6.5" in the 6.1. but I'll never know until you host a gtg Shawn. how about end of September... your city is beautiful then. and I know it would be cooler then today. [emoji16]
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:30 AM
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Thanks for the invite jbrown

I like your recliner

Anyways, really enjoyed listening to everyone's speaker. Especially the people. It was great meeting some people finally that are serious into these kind of stuff.

Okay... guys I'll be blunt

I am not going to compare since I have never really heard of the tracks in a live situation or during recording, therefore, there is no real reference point for me to go by.
So I would only have a preference to certain speakers and won't be able to judge based purely on the accuracy of the speaker...

Please, note, I maybe biased...probably partially because I bought myself a set from Nathan...
Personally, I preferred 6.1Ps and 8.2Ps for vocals and instruments because of the way it was presented. To me it sounds complete and smooth without loss of detail, non-fatiguing. This was also off axis as well most of the time
For the 1099's, well....I thought they were bright.

After that I didn't really want to listen to the same songs. It's just me, I switch songs a lot. The tracks were GOOD, but not the kind of music I'd listen to, however, I was happy since everyone else was .
As for movies, I think they were a good choice for the clips. And that one with the balls was interesting.

As for movie viewing and subs,
I think we all liked the 18.2. It responded like the usual, tight with ruthless accuracy with plenty of SPL to back it up.
For the Quads, Plenty of SPL, could use some refinement.

This is personally my opinion and totally respect the guys that brought their speakers. I think you guys did a great job on them.


-C2K

Equipment List: Preamp/Processor: Sherbourn PT-7030 [] Speakers: Funk Audio - Line Array(2kW),18.2 Subwoofer (9.6kW)[]Projector: Epson 5020ub []Screen: Elunevision Reference 150"
PC/HTPC: Intel Q6600 [] GTX670 [] 4 GB Ram [] Windows 8.1 x64
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Audio Cable: XLR - From Orange County Speaker - 50ft
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
for music I'm not sure how the 15" celestion mids could be more articulate or detailed then the 5" in 1099 or 6.5" in the 6.1. but I'll never know until you host a gtg Shawn. how about end of September... your city is beautiful then. and I know it would be cooler then today. [emoji16]
Unfortunately my system is incomplete (to my standards), and I don't have the funds to complete it just yet.

But when I do (probably summer 2015???), you, joe and warren will be on the top of the invite list...
and anybody else who doesn't actually turn out to be a serial killer between now and then. LOL!
You craigslist killers better watch yourself though, I'm a black-belt in traditional Japanese Karate. (No Joke.)
You better kill me with the first blow, that's all I have say about that!

In case you are wondering, the English translation is:
Dojo of the way of the empty hand.
note: I'm not Japanese BTW, I'm as White as they get. Just thought I'd clarify on that point before you start talking Japanese to me or somesuch.

Won the Black Belt Pan-American Japan-Karate-Federation Tournament a number of years ago (it was by invite only).
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Old 07-20-2014, 02:23 AM
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We will kill you with Bass.
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Equipment List: Preamp/Processor: Sherbourn PT-7030 [] Speakers: Funk Audio - Line Array(2kW),18.2 Subwoofer (9.6kW)[]Projector: Epson 5020ub []Screen: Elunevision Reference 150"
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Old 07-20-2014, 06:11 AM
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So did anyone open up the Tempest to double check the DIY assembly or to see how much or what kind of stuffing was used?

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Old 07-20-2014, 06:36 AM
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So did anyone open up the Tempest to double check the DIY assembly or to see how much or what kind of stuffing was used?
I believe warren used denim insulation similar to what jtrs use. two inch throughout.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:10 AM
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I thought you guys were going to open it up to double check everything. Seems like the only way to give a DIY speaker a fair playing field at a GTG. It should be tested to make sure it was built to the same specs as the original because the designer has no idea how the person builds them on their side. Especially if they build their own cabinets.

I've seen photos of some pretty funky builds where people change things around, or add 4 times the bracing using 2x4's, use rubber coated something for 'insulation', tie all the inductors together with zip ties 'beacuse it was easier to assemble', add so much fiberglass inside that you could barely install the woofer, etc, etc.

One guy didn't think his speakers sounded right.....his compression driver wasn't even hooked up.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I thought you guys were going to open it up to double check everything. Seems like the only way to give a DIY speaker a fair playing field at a GTG. It should be tested to make sure it was built to the same specs as the original because the designer has no idea how the person builds them on their side. Especially if they build their own cabinets.

I've seen photos of some pretty funky builds where people change things around, or add 4 times the bracing using 2x4's, use rubber coated something for 'insulation', tie all the inductors together with zip ties 'beacuse it was easier to assemble', add so much fiberglass inside that you could barely install the woofer, etc, etc.

One guy didn't think his speakers sounded right.....his compression driver wasn't even hooked up.
Each cabinet had a single window style brace in it with a double front baffle. All pieces were cut on a CNC and the inside of the box was only lined with denim insulation not stuffed with insulation.



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Old 07-20-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I personally didn't think the Tempest sounded odd at all, I actually thought they sounded good. Just not quite as good as the 228HT's and 1099's.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I thought you guys were going to open it up to double check everything. Seems like the only way to give a DIY speaker a fair playing field at a GTG. It should be tested to make sure it was built to the same specs as the original because the designer has no idea how the person builds them on their side. Especially if they build their own cabinets.

I've seen photos of some pretty funky builds where people change things around, or add 4 times the bracing using 2x4's, use rubber coated something for 'insulation', tie all the inductors together with zip ties 'beacuse it was easier to assemble', add so much fiberglass inside that you could barely install the woofer, etc, etc.

One guy didn't think his speakers sounded right.....his compression driver wasn't even hooked up.
Has anyone ever compared multiple of the same to each other like three different sets of fusion 12? That could be interesting to see the small changes from whatever construction differences were used.

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Old 07-20-2014, 09:49 AM
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That could be another shootout lol, I wish someone had brought the cinema 88 to the GTG
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:08 AM
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1099 showed strong... Nice to see that and great work Tux! (Ryan)

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Old 07-20-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I personally didn't think the Tempest sounded odd at all, I actually thought they sounded good. Just not quite as good as the 228HT's and 1099's.
I have heard multiple Tempest, Sentinels and various Fusions. And I agree if you are use to speakers to the likes of JTR's or Danley's, they will certainly sound different. I would think the Tempest would sound better with music vs HT, but that is my opinion.


I am interested in the 1099's, would like to hear them someday. I also love the Funk speakers. I was looking at them in another thread and they sure are some lookers. Funny that one revier liked the smaller 6.1 better. Certainly another pair of speakers I would like to here.

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Old 07-20-2014, 12:55 PM
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Great to see people enjoying this great hobby of ours.

Anyhow, how big was the room that the speakers were played in? Did it have any room treatments?
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