Which speakers paired with a RX-V463 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-19-2014, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Question Which speakers paired with a RX-V463

Hi all,

I've currently got an extremely modest system, an RX-V463 receiver paired with Athena LS50B bookshelf, centre and AS-P4100 sub.

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model

I'm not looking to update the receiver for budget reasons but just wondering what sort of speakers would suit the output of the receiver. How high can I aim? What output sub?

I know they're fairly general questions but just trying to get a feel for what I can expect.

Cheers.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone, please.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:50 AM
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I don't see a problem driving most any speaker that is reasonably efficient. You won't get to extremely loud or reference levels with … let's say … the Magnepans, but even those should play nicely at 100 watts/channel. As far as the subwoofer is concerned, unless you are going passive, I wouldn't worry about it (the majority of subs are active -- have their own amplifier).
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I don't see a problem driving most any speaker that is reasonably efficient. You won't get to extremely loud or reference levels with … let's say … the Magnepans, but even those should play nicely at 100 watts/channel. As far as the subwoofer is concerned, unless you are going passive, I wouldn't worry about it (the majority of subs are active -- have their own amplifier).
Thanks mate. All I needed to know, cheers.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:50 PM
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Look for 8ohm, efficient speakers. That Yamaha has no more than 45W per channel.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:02 PM
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32W per channel

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
I thought it was rated 105w per channel?
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:16 PM
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lol. No.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:18 PM
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You won't be using more than a few watts of power for general listening. A typical speaker has a sensitivity of about 87dB, which means that with only 1 watt it will play 87dB at 1 meter. Most people sit about 3 meters away from their speakers. Every doubling of distance means you lose 6dB, so that means that at 3 meters you will lose roughly 10dB. However, that equation assumes you're in an anechoic chamber, your real world loss will be less, probably around 6dB due to room reflections. So at this point, 1 watt gets you 81dB. Thats pretty loud. I usually listen to my music at 75-80dB. Say you want to play even louder though(you are having a party or something), 84dB, which is a little more than one "notch" louder. You need double the power to gain just 3dB so 2 watts will give you 84dB. Music and movies have peaks so you can calculate how much headroom you have, every 3dB increase will require double the power.

I had the opportunity to listen to a $40,000 2.0 setup, it comprised of B&W 802D's and some very overkill 500 watt Macintosh amps. They had little dials on the front that showed how much power was being used in real time. Even listening at somewhat loud volume, the speakers never used more than 5 watts even during the loudest peaks.

Moral of the story is theres very little difference between a 50 watt amp and a 100 watt amp, the 100 watt amp can only play 3dB louder. You need more than 8x the power to play 2x as loud. Choose whatever speaker you would like. As long as it is reasonably efficient, it doesn't have wickedly low impedance, and your not playing at crazy high volumes or in a very large space you can power your speaker of choice with pretty much any amplifier/receiver.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:31 PM
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funny enough going from 60W to 100W amps (and proper watts to inflated AVR) was much better. 91dB speakers, 6ohm..

There is more to it than "only need 5W"

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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QUOTE=fatbottom;25927753]lol. No.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I'm not that knowledgable when it comes to this but trying to understand.

So given this how did I misconstrue this statement?:

RMS Power (8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz) [THD] - 105W x 5 [0.9%] (1kHz)
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
funny enough going from 60W to 100W amps (and proper watts to inflated AVR) was much better. 91dB speakers, 6ohm..

There is more to it than "only need 5W"
What do you mean by "much better". Much better what? Sound quality? Did you measure the so called improvement or did you use those unreliable and inaccurate tools on the side of your head

Im not saying you only need 5 watts. Im saying most people wont use more than a few watts, so worrying about the difference between a 50 watt amp and 100 watt amp is pointless assuming they are both respectably designed.

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:47 PM
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Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 32.6 watts
also is that full frequency response? or just 1khz tone?

Music isn't a 1khz tone! Also your amp max power consumption is 240W.

240W /5 isn't 105W (x5) Not unless it has a fusion reactor inside, more output power than input lol

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
I thought it was rated 105w per channel?
It shows a power rating of 105 watts per channel @ 1 Khz with 0.9% distortion. How it rates with a "from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with x.x% distortion with 2 channels driven" is anyone's guess. More and more companies are going to these types of 1 KHz specs, so don't be too worried. It would be nice if every company would publish the same parameters with their spec sheet, but that isn't going to happen. But as both I and SmithandWesson suggested, it should perform well with any reasonably efficient speakers.
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:56 PM
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This is a good idea what an amp spec should be ;-)

Number of Channels 2 to 7 2 to 7
EIA 1kHz Output Power at 8 Ohms* 250 watts 350 watts
EIA 1kHz Output Power at 4 Ohms* 375 watts 450 watts
FTC Full Bandwidth Output Power at 8 Ohms** 200 watts 300 watts
FTC Full Bandwidth Output Power at 4 Ohms** 300 watts 450 watts
Input Sensitivity for Full Rated Power 1.6 Volts 1.8 Volts
Frequency Response at Rated Output 20Hz to 20kHz ±0.1dB
Phase Response +5 to -15 degrees from 20Hz to 20kHz at 1 watt
Signal-to-Noise Ratio “A-Weighted” Greater than 120dB below rated FTC Full Bandwidth Power
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Less than 0.03% at full rated FTC power Less than 0.005% at full EIA power at 1kHz
Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) Less than 0.03% at full rated FTC power Less than 0.005% at full EIA power at 1kHz
Load Impedance Safe with all types of loads. Rated for 4 to 16 ohms
Power Bandwidth FTC +0-3db from 5Hz to 100kHz
Damping Factor Greater than 400 from 10Hz to 400Hz
Crosstalk Greater than –100dB from 20Hz to 20kHz

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Old 07-21-2014, 06:13 PM
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Whatever dude, the way they measure those receivers has little to do with the way things work in the real world. Good for you for being able to afford an expensive amp. That doesn't help the OP.

Also from the review:
Quote:
Considering the burden it had to bear—powering five full-range speakers
without a sub—the Yamaha RX-V463 acquitted itself well. It proved itself
capable of surprises with the right source material. And there wasn’t any
material it couldn’t handle competently.


The OP will have no problem using that receiver for any mainstream speakers.

Last edited by Gmash; 07-21-2014 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gmash View Post
Whatever dude, the way they measure those receivers has little to do with the way things work in the real world. Good fir you for being able to afford an expensive amp. That doesn't help the OP.

Also from the review:




The OP will have no problem using that receiver for any mainstream speakers.
Agreed.

OP, you may find this useful.

http://www.globalrph.com/master_speaker.htm

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Old 07-22-2014, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmash View Post
Whatever dude, the way they measure those receivers has little to do with the way things work in the real world. Good for you for being able to afford an expensive amp. That doesn't help the OP.

Also from the review:




The OP will have no problem using that receiver for any mainstream speakers.
I also have a Yamaha 671. I wouldn't use it in the main home theatre.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for all of your responses. I really just needed an idea if I outlaid x amount on some speakers would it severely underperform because of my lower end receiver. As I said, I don't know much but will do more homework. I'd rather outlay a couple of grand on some speakers than part or most of that on a receiver at this point.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
Thank you for all of your responses. I really just needed an idea if I outlaid x amount on some speakers would it severely underperform because of my lower end receiver. As I said, I don't know much but will do more homework. I'd rather outlay a couple of grand on some speakers than part or most of that on a receiver at this point.
I provided you with a calculator that will tell you exactly how much power you need. In case you missed it here it is again.


http://www.globalrph.com/master_speaker.htm
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SmithandWesson View Post
I provided you with a calculator that will tell you exactly how much power you need. In case you missed it here it is again.


http://www.globalrph.com/master_speaker.htm
Thanks mate.

So where it says Amplifier Power (watts) am I right in thinking that mine is 110w assuming 8ohm speakers?

Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) - 110/130/160/180 W
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
Thanks mate.

So where it says Amplifier Power (watts) am I right in thinking that mine is 110w assuming 8ohm speakers?

Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) - 110/130/160/180 W
That spec is for two channels driven I believe. The benchmark showed that when all channels were driven the RMS output dropped to ~30 watts.

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Old 07-22-2014, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
Thanks mate.

So where it says Amplifier Power (watts) am I right in thinking that mine is 110w assuming 8ohm speakers?

Dynamic Power/Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms) - 110/130/160/180 W
Already given the true output figure for your receiver. In a small room with efficient, easy to drive speakers it should be ok. Just avoid 4ohm, 83dB 1W speakers and you should be ok.

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Old 07-22-2014, 04:03 AM
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Whatever dude, the way they measure those receivers has little to do with the way things work in the real world
And in the real world, speakers aren't a resistor. In the real world, you need more power than 5W, and amp with decent PSU. I tried a 25W amp and not impressed with it, went loud just could tell it was straining. Also with AVR just sounds congested. Went loud, just didn't sound great.

But I guess if you only care about dB..which I'm afraid most people are just aware of.

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Old 07-22-2014, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Already given the true output figure for your receiver. In a small room with efficient, easy to drive speakers it should be ok. Just avoid 4ohm, 83dB 1W speakers and you should be ok.
The room isn't that small.

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Old 07-22-2014, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
And in the real world, speakers aren't a resistor. In the real world, you need more power than 5W, and amp with decent PSU. I tried a 25W amp and not impressed with it, went loud just could tell it was straining. Also with AVR just sounds congested. Went loud, just didn't sound great.

But I guess if you only care about dB..which I'm afraid most people are just aware of.
And what did you use to measure these purported differences? Your ears? You realize that aural memory has been shown to fade after only a few seconds right? Unless you have an A/B switching device chances are you cant make a fair assessment between 2 amplifiers.

Were the tests conducted sighted? Because the human brain is incredibly easy to influence. Ever heard of the placebo effect? What about illusions? How about the test where they took a 5 dollar wine, put it in a 500 dollar bottle then put 500 dollar wine in a 5 dollar bottle and had people try to pick the best wine. Even the experts chose the cheap wine in the expensive bottle over the expensive wine in the cheap bottle. This effect doesnt only apply to wine, it applies to pretty much anything, including amplifiers.

Take a look on these forums and others, you will find people swearing that getting a better HDMI cable improved the image(at short distances) when that is literally impossible, 1s and 0s either get to the TV or they dont. Or what about the people claiming that speaker cables made a massive improvement in sound quality, we all know thats false(at least I hope so..) yet they insist the differences are there. I dont doubt you think you heard those differences but whether you actually heard them is up for debate.

So chances are unless you did a blind test to remove bias while using an A/B switcher to preserve aural memory, your alleged improvements in sound quality are anything but credible. You give us no reason to take your word over the numbers which say he will probably be just fine with his AVR. I wont even get into how inaccurate of a measuring instrument the ear is in the first place.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farr3ll View Post
Thank you for all of your responses. I really just needed an idea if I outlaid x amount on some speakers would it severely underperform because of my lower end receiver. As I said, I don't know much but will do more homework. I'd rather outlay a couple of grand on some speakers than part or most of that on a receiver at this point.
Regardless of any debates - I would start with new speakers and a sub
Buy the speakers you want - however, I would go 6 ohms or above

When you get your system - then see how it goes with your receiver. The
subwoofer amp, will take some stress off your speakers and receiver.

When you shop, try to save $300 - in case you want to upgrade the receiver.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmithandWesson View Post
And what did you use to measure these purported differences? Your ears? You realize that aural memory has been shown to fade after only a few seconds right? Unless you have an A/B switching device chances are you cant make a fair assessment between 2 amplifiers.

Were the tests conducted sighted? Because the human brain is incredibly easy to influence. Ever heard of the placebo effect? What about illusions? How about the test where they took a 5 dollar wine, put it in a 500 dollar bottle then put 500 dollar wine in a 5 dollar bottle and had people try to pick the best wine. Even the experts chose the cheap wine in the expensive bottle over the expensive wine in the cheap bottle. This effect doesnt only apply to wine, it applies to pretty much anything, including amplifiers.

Take a look on these forums and others, you will find people swearing that getting a better HDMI cable improved the image(at short distances) when that is literally impossible, 1s and 0s either get to the TV or they dont. Or what about the people claiming that speaker cables made a massive improvement in sound quality, we all know thats false(at least I hope so..) yet they insist the differences are there. I dont doubt you think you heard those differences but whether you actually heard them is up for debate.

So chances are unless you did a blind test to remove bias while using an A/B switcher to preserve aural memory, your alleged improvements in sound quality are anything but credible. You give us no reason to take your word over the numbers which say he will probably be just fine with his AVR. I wont even get into how inaccurate of a measuring instrument the ear is in the first place.
blah blah blah.

Changing from Arcam to Audiolab was noticeable and differences were immediate.

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Old 07-22-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
blah blah blah.

Changing from Arcam to Audiolab was noticeable and differences were immediate.
Yeah screw science! What has it ever done for us.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"

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Old 07-22-2014, 02:10 PM
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ha ha ha what a freaking joke this site is...

listening to Roksan Kandy K1? Unbearingly harsh and brash.. nah it's not my ears bleeding it sounds exactly the same as a Arcam. Deny demos, and subsitute confirmation bias to your testing.

hahahahaha.

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