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Best small(er) 5.1 system for $1500-2000

5K views 42 replies 13 participants last post by  steveting99 
#1 ·
I am downsizing my system and was hoping for opinions on the better small form factor systems out there today. My budget is $1500-2000 for a 5.1 system. I was initially looking at something like the Definitive Technology ProCinema line, but definitely open to suggestions.

This will be going into my small space which about a ~9x12 space (half of a typical 12x17 bonus room above a garage).
 
#4 ·
Here are my suggestions:

Speakers:

Option A: PSB Image system comprising B5 mains, C5 center and B4 surrounds (all dark cherry) - $630 shipped ex. Crutchfield

Option B: Ascend Acoustics system comprising HTM-200 SE mains and surrounds and HTM-200 SEC center - $650 shipped

Subs:

SVS Outlet Special Dual SB12-NSD - $1200 shipped

Discounted speakers allow you to spend more on subs. :D
 
#5 ·
My favorite speakers are Paradigm - slightly bright and lively, and a great center channel speaker that will make your HT sound amazing. You should be able to listen to these at a showroom - it was a few hundred miles for me but it was worth it. These are list prices - you should be able to buy them for 10% to 20% less:

Mains: Paradigm Mini Monitor - $299 each
Center: Paradigm Center 3 - $599
Surround: Paradigm Surround 1 - $279 each
Sub: SB-1000 - 300 Watt DSP Controlled, 12" Ultra Compact Sealed Subwoofer - $499


I would also suggest NHT speakers - they are a very neutral acoustic suspension speaker with very smooth mids, not bright or boomy - you should listen to a pair to see if you like the sound. I have a mint pair of Classic Two's at the office that I bought used on eBay and I can listen to them all day (or night) without fatigue. This would be my ideal "small home theater" system:

Mains: NHT Classic Two Bookshelf Speaker - Only 12" Tall - $330 each
Center: NHT TwoC Center Channel Speaker - 3 way design for better dialog - $450
Surround: NHT Absolute Zero Bookshelf Speaker - $220 each
OR
Surround: Absolute Wall Speaker White - $220 each
Sub: SB-1000 - 300 Watt DSP Controlled, 12" Ultra Compact Sealed Subwoofer - $499
 
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#6 ·
I was initially looking at something like the Definitive Technology ProCinema line, but definitely open to suggestions.
I really like Def Tech - I went to listen to all of their speakers I could find. They make amazing small speakers (all four of my surrounds are Def Tech in-walls), but they are expensive and not even they can get real mid-bass from tiny satellite speakers - and I don't like their small center speakers either (never got to listen to the larger center).

The ProCinema 1000 5.1 (ProMonitor 1000 x 4 / ProCenter 1000) system is in your budget and would probably do the job, but I listened to and liked the StudioMonitor 55 better especially for only 50 dollars more than the ProMonitor 1000 for the fronts - maybe the ProMonitor 1000 for surrounds. And maybe listen to the bigger ProCenter 2000 or even the CS8040HD center. And still go with an SVS sub.
 
#8 · (Edited)
mknutt,

I like the satellite + sub setup for a small room. Been doing some research on solutions and came down to the following:

Paradigm Millenia One satellites: http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/series=millenia/model=milleniaone-3.0-system/page=specs
PSB Image mini: http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/imagine/Imagine-mini#heading-downloads
Definitive Technologies ProCinema 1000: http://www.definitivetech.com/products/procinema-1000
KEF E301: http://www.kef.com/html/en/showroom...s/ESeries/fact_sheets/Systems/E305/index.html
Cambridge Audio Minx 21 series: ]http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/minx-min-21-speaker
Monitor Audio Apex A10: http://www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/apex/a10/#/specification
Bowers & Wilkins M1: http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Theatre_Solutions/Mini_Theatre/M-1.html

The limiting factors for me was wall mounting option and a color other than black.

Some other speaker manufacturers are mentioned in previous posts. Have a read of Jim Wilson's review of RSL Speakers, it's a good write-up.

I would recommend getting the same satellites from the same manufacturer for a 5.0 setup. The 0.1 is for the sub and a better option is from internet direct (ID) companies such as:
SVS
HSU
PSA
Rythmik
 
#11 ·
mknutt,

I like the satellite + sub setup for a small room. Been doing some research on solutions and came down to the following:

Paradigm Millenia One satellites: http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/series=millenia/model=milleniaone-3.0-system/page=specs
I just scored on a used 3.0 and I'm absolutely stunned. They feel much nicer than they look. I've been eyeing them for quite some time now based on all the glowing reviews...so when I saw them on ebay I couldn't pass up on that deal.

I'm putting them through their paces; so far, they don't sound like any satellites at all. They roar much better than plenty of bookshelves I've tried before and a big plus in how they attain detail even in low volume listening. I'm so pleased with them...;)
 
#14 ·
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and tips. I have a few options to research. As was mentioned, I am looking at satellites/sub mainly due to space issues and aesthetics. I have a 5.0 system of towers and larger speakers, but they would just overwhelm the small, shared space. Therefore, I am looking to sell that set.


As for the RSL system, would it be best to use the RSL sub or would a sub from another company (SVS, HSU, etc) work just as well?


Slightly off topic, but my main seating will be up against the back wall. I have read, that in a 5.1 system, it is best to have the surrounds on the side walls pointed toward the listening area. If I did this, would is be ok if the speakers were also close to the back wall (i.e. within a few inches) or am I creating reflection issues?
 
#15 ·
As for the RSL system, would it be best to use the RSL sub or would a sub from another company (SVS, HSU, etc) work just as well?
The RSL sub integrates perfectly with the speakers, both aurally and visually, so it's probably something to consider.


Slightly off topic, but my main seating will be up against the back wall. I have read, that in a 5.1 system, it is best to have the surrounds on the side walls pointed toward the listening area. If I did this, would is be ok if the speakers were also close to the back wall (i.e. within a few inches) or am I creating reflection issues?
Having your couch right up against a wall is going to cause all manner of audible issues, especially with the bass. You may have a hard time getting the sound dialed in.
 
#22 ·
That is very true - nothing is perfect and there are always trade offs when setting up an audio system - cost, size, and performance are always competing factors. Only you can decide what is the right compromise for your space with your budget and how you want your system to look.

As you've gone down the sat+sub path, understand that some compromises have to be made. If you're willing to deal with the issues that come up and keep an open mind on solutions, I believe you can achieve good sound reproduction in your small listening space.
The OP has a budget sufficient to get four high quality satellites, an amazing center speaker and at least one really good sub. With medium size satellites (mid-range driver at least 5.25" or multiple smaller drivers for good mid-bass) and a modern AVR with bass management, the only real compromise that a sat / sub system has compared to large tower speakers is lower total SPL (lower max volume). In a smaller room this isn't usually an issue. If worried about this, just choose speakers that are more sensitive.

I love my sat / sub system for music as well as home theater - for music I am usually only using the front two speakers and the sub so I got the largest bookshelf speakers that I could find but they are usually being used at less than 25% of their ability. When I got my NHT Classic Twos for the office, I put them on my stands in my main listening room for a few days and made sure that they were working correctly - I was very satisfied with their sound along with my subs. Maybe a little less impact on some music and soundtracks - probably only because they are a smoother, warmer speaker - but nothing that I would consider a compromise. I would bet that with the Paradigm Mini Monitor (which is voiced much more similar to my Paradigm S4) I would probably notice very little difference for most program material.
 

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#20 ·
mknutt,

While mtn-tech and myself are exchanging ideas/thoughts as well as getting deep into the audio stuff, the above comment from Gmash is very relevant for you.

As you've gone down the sat+sub path, understand that some compromises have to be made. If you're willing to deal with the issues that come up and keep an open mind on solutions, I believe you can achieve good sound reproduction in your small listening space.

The fun part is just beginning. Once you've got a short list of speakers you're interested in, go and visit all those hifi shops and have a listen.:) Choosing the one you like is the hard part.
 
#24 ·
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#26 ·
The measurements speak for themselves. 24-180 Hz ± 3db in a 10" ported sub won't outperform the 12" options from the ID vendors for an HT setup. Here is a graph of the measurements along with the speakers, blue trace being the sub (from S&Vs original test measurements):



Compare that to the HSU VTF-2 MK4, for example:



Not hard to tell which is the better sub. It's clearly just not as good a value.
 
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#32 · (Edited)
mknutt,

In your 1st post, you mentioned a budget of $1,500 to $2,000 for your system. Did you consider a modern AVR and decent sub with this budget?

The reason I ask is that bass management will be important part of your sat+sub setup. Also a decent sub that is able to output a freqeuncy range of say 20Hz to 200Hz (-3dB) to suite what ever satellites you'll be getting is another important factor to get a good integration at the crossover point.

In your small space, room modes will become an issue. I'm finding out the hard way that a single sub is having a difficult time taming the peaks and nulls.:( I've tried different placements, relocating the MLP, applying room correction and external PEQ filters with little improvement. While the current setup is satisfactory as is, it would have been much better with a dual sub setup. I'm now considering to get a 2nd Rythmik sub when funds become available.:p

If you can give me your room width, length and height - will post your room mode graphs.
 
#34 ·
Although it was not included in that budget estimate, I will be getting a new AVR for this space. I have not yet begun that research. Am I putting the cart before the horse?
No - you are not putting the cart before the horse.

Find the speakers you want - then get the receiver that will drive your system,
with the features/frills that you desire.
 
#35 ·
^^

What these two guys said about AVRs :)
 
#38 ·
^mknutt,

As part of the search for good satellite speakers, I did visit a Goldenears dealer. They had the full set-up from SuperSat3/5/Aon up to the big ticket Triton 2 floor standers connected to either NAD amps and pre/pro or Cambridge Audio receiver.

I must have spent a few hours in there with the CDs and just enjoying the sound.:)

From memory, the SuperSat3 needs to be wall mounted to get decent bass. There is a distinct color to the sound when wall mounting - it may not be suitable for everyone. Once away from the wall, the SuperSat3 did sound a bit thin. I also had the opportunity to compare the SuperSat3 to CA Minx20 in another hifi shop (the sub was the same as well as the receiver driving the transducers) and preferred the sound of the SuperSat3.

Was impressed with the Aon 2 stereo setup. Thought it was really transparent.

The best was the Triton 2 floor standers. Couldn't fit them into the room, but did play around with it in the shop. Really nice setup and enjoyed listening to the music.
 
#40 · (Edited)
^mknutt,

I'm partial to the Rythmik direct servo sub, there's something special about them. In-room measurements say the direct servo sub has clean, low distortion output which is important to me for integration with the satellites.

The model LV12R is a good start and is competitive with other internet direct subs: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html. The price is reasonable as it includes shipping. If you don't like it after 30 days, send it back and you'll only have to pay for shipping.

There's a massive thread for Rythmik subs here:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.html

There are other internet direct sub brands such as HSU, PSA, SVS, etc. They're all good and offer value. I'm not very familiar with them that's all.

Edit: It's generally better to go with two subs to smooth out the bass in a small room and minimize seat to seat variance; i.e. larger sweet spot. I'm learning this the hard way...:(
 
#41 ·
Well, I think I have narrowed it down to two options:

Definitive Technology:
Mains - ProMonitor 1000
Center - ProCenter 2000
Surround - ProMonitor 800

or

Paradigm:
Mains - Atom Monitor
Center - Center 1
Surround - Surround 1

Still trying to determine the best sub for my needs. Sealed or ported? I am leaning towards SVS, PB- or SB-1000. Or should I step up to the 2000 series.

Any opinions on these choices?
 
#43 · (Edited)
mknutt,

Some time ago, I did have a listen to the DefTech Promonitor 1000 setup in a local hifi shop. It was in a dedicated theater room, 5.1 arrangement and REQ applied via an Onkyo receiver. Can't recall the sub model/make or the Onkyo's model number. There's a massive thread for the Def Tech Promonitor series here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...ema-series-600-800-1000-60-80-100-thread.html so you can post questions there.

Played a musical BR and remember the sound being full - a characteristic of Audyssey REQ. At that time, didn't know much about the tricks of the trade that salesmen used to push certain brands. He offered me a good price on the Def Tech, but I declined.

A little bit wiser now. Next time if there's an opportunity to visit a hifi shop and demo speakers, I would:
(1) bring an inexpensive SPL handheld meter;
(2) A CD with pink noise;
(3) Other CD's with tunes I'm familiar with;
(4) Set the AVR/amp in DIRECT/PURE DIRECT mode.
(5) Level match the speakers using the SPL meter and pink noise - prior to playing any CDs; and
(6) Take notes.

Haven't heard the Paradigm Atoms, so can't provide any feedback.
 
#42 ·
A subwoofer will 'see' all the contiguous space, not just what has been designated as the viewing area, so you have to consider that when determing what products will work. Be that as it may... your room is not large, so a PB-1000 would do just fine. If you want something with a bit more presence than the PB2000 is a solid contender, along with the Rythmik LV12R, HSU VTF-3 MK4 and PSA XS15se.
 
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