setting up subwoofer and avr for new sub - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By RayGuy
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old Today, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
setting up subwoofer and avr for new sub

I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r. Now I'm hoping someone can explain how to set it up properly. this is my first sub that actually has settings on it.

i've got the volume at about 80%
delay phase 0
crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
auto power on

on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?

to me it doesn't sound right. bass is clean. cleanest bass i've ever heard in a home. i told my wife the rumbles felt like Warren Theaters. I could hear bass booms in the street. I tested it out on Tron Legacy. My favorite film for audio and visual effects. It could be just the way the audio is in the film but at several times they were fighting or even when he was on the motorcycle (not the light cycle) that the lows sounded like they were coming from the front or centers. there was no "thud thud thud" from the bike on the sub or fighting sounds on the sub.

Any advice?
angrynerdjosh is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old Today, 08:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 277
First off you have a problem with the sub gain. You want to set the sub to about 30-40% gain, and then run Audyssey. When you check your sub level in the AVR, the goal is to get it to 0dB. So in your case the AVR is turning the bass down because the sub is set too high. Once you get the level right on the sub and the AVR shows 0dB, or close to it, then you can go from there.

If you prefer more/less bass, then adjust it in the AVR, don't touch the gain on the sub. 90% of issues with subs are due to placement. Everyone has a different room with different acoustics, so there is no "right" place to put a sub. If you haven't already, do the "sub crawl" method to determine the best place in your room.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #3 of 16 Old Today, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
is sub gain the same as the volume on the sub? I had to turn it so high so i could hear it.
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #4 of 16 Old Today, 09:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Yes sub gain = volume.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #5 of 16 Old Today, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
i have a subwoofer cable going from pre out to LFE. should i plug it into a y jack and go into the L and R inputs instead?
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #6 of 16 Old Today, 09:33 AM
Member
 
89grand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Keep in mind when a sub is properly blended you really shouldn't "hear" it. It should be seamless and sound as though your mains are producing the bass frequencies.

Problem is, most room acoustics are a nightmare for smooth bass, so you're going to have peaks and dips all over the place, and some of those peaks are going to excite areas in the room, so it's much harder to blend.I always recommend at least two subs, but I prefer 3 to help smooth the response. I used a Minidsp and REW to really solve the problems, but Audyssey should help quite a bit with that.
89grand is online now  
post #7 of 16 Old Today, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I guess by hear it i mean most of the bass sounded mid range. it wasn't very deep. with the gain up it felt lower and i could feel it.
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #8 of 16 Old Today, 09:48 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
afrogt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 22,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 351
Like was said above set your sub volume to 30-40% and rerun Audyssey. The -12 reading means the sub is turned up way too high.

You're probably used to the boominess of your previous sub and it not supposed to be that way with a quality sub.

Afro GT
afrogt is online now  
post #9 of 16 Old Today, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
yeah. audyssey was ran with the previous sub. i'll run it tonight. thanks for the tips.
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #10 of 16 Old Today, 10:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sivadselim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 16,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r.

crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
Are you using the sub's LFE input or not? You should be. If so, I believe that those settings are irrelevant. (It's the "LPF slope", btw.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
Can't really advise on this setting except to say that, provided the flattest room response is what you are after, you want to set it so that the AVR has to apply as little EQ as possible at the low end in order to achieve that. You really can't know without some combination of curiosity, fiddling, trial-and-error, and measurements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
Did you run Audyssey to get these settings? You said you had a HTiB sub. We do not know what speakers you have, but 80Hz may be too low a crossover setting for them. And you need to run Audyssey if you haven't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?
This is the correct setting for your setup. This means that the subwoofer will handle the LFE channel and any bass below the crossover point from those channels that are set to SMALL, but that it will NOT reproduce any bass from any LARGE channels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
Any advice?
As others said, your subwoofer's gain (yes, its volume knob) is set too high. Lower it.
And run Audyssey.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."
sivadselim is online now  
post #11 of 16 Old Today, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I'm using JBL studio 120 and studio 130 for fronts and center.
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #12 of 16 Old Today, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Transmaniacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,722
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I'm using JBL studio 120 and studio 130 for fronts and center.
Run Audyssey and see what it sets your crossovers at, I would wager 80-100Hz.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

Computer
Topping TP23 | NHT SuperZero 2.0 | Velodyne DEQ-8R
Transmaniacon is online now  
post #13 of 16 Old Today, 12:05 PM
Senior Member
 
RayGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r. Now I'm hoping someone can explain how to set it up properly. this is my first sub that actually has settings on it.

i've got the volume at about 80%
delay phase 0
crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
auto power on

on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?

to me it doesn't sound right. bass is clean. cleanest bass i've ever heard in a home. i told my wife the rumbles felt like Warren Theaters. I could hear bass booms in the street. I tested it out on Tron Legacy. My favorite film for audio and visual effects. It could be just the way the audio is in the film but at several times they were fighting or even when he was on the motorcycle (not the light cycle) that the lows sounded like they were coming from the front or centers. there was no "thud thud thud" from the bike on the sub or fighting sounds on the sub.

Any advice?
Set the volume on the sub MUCH lower, somewhere between 25 and 40%. As has been stated, the level after Audyssey should be 0dB.

Set the sub crossover all the way up ... the receiver will handle the crossover region. Using both will just confuse the issue.

Is the sub at the front of the room? If so, the phase setting at or near zero is correct. if it is in the back of the room, the phase should be set at or near 180.

Also, sub positioning is the most important thing you can do to improve the bass in your room. Look up the "sub crawl" on this site and follow the directions. You are NOT looking for the loudest bass, you are looking for the most even bass you can get across the frequency spectrum. To that end, a test cd and dB meter from Radio Shack, or pc based software/microphone system, is the best way to verify what you are hearing.

As others have said, you are used to one-note "BOOMY" bass. That is BAD bass, like what you hear when when a teen's car goes by. Thump is NOT what you want out of your new, sub. What you want is integration, the ability to reproduce subtleties (yes, good bass has subtleties), and clean, tight response at every frequency.

The reason you are not hearing some of the bass response you are expecting from your test movie is because the current position of the sub is not conducive to even bass response. There are "holes" in the response at your seating position. Fix the positioning issue and you will find that the problem is solved.

Last edited by RayGuy; Today at 01:19 PM.
RayGuy is online now  
post #14 of 16 Old Today, 12:36 PM
Senior Member
 
ClawAndTalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 82
I'd also suggest corner placement. Find a corner, on the front wall, and plop the sub down there. If it's front firing do NOT point it at you. Don't be that guy...


Start with the gain at 9 oclock (this is a quarter turn from all the way down). Run Audyssey and see where it trims the sub. If the Audyssey trim is a negative value, turn the gain down more, but if it's positive turn the gain up and repeat this whole process until the sub trims at 0, or close to it. ie -0.5 is ok


When you're done, make sure all of the speakers are set to small. If you have big towers for mains, you can notch their crossover point down to 60 or 40hz, but all other speakers need to be 80 hz.
ClawAndTalon is online now  
post #15 of 16 Old Today, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 1
the sub is huge. it can only fit in one spot and that is in the front right corner. i won't be able to use the sub crawl method.
angrynerdjosh is online now  
post #16 of 16 Old Today, 01:55 PM
Member
 
89grand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
the sub is huge. it can only fit in one spot and that is in the front right corner. i won't be able to use the sub crawl method.
It's just as well really. I've never agreed with the "crawl" method. Yes, in theory it does work, but more often than not, you're going to find the best results with the sub in some stupid spot like right in the middle of the room, and you won't be able to put it there anyway so what's the point?

Most people only have so many available, practical locations, so just put it where it can go and live with the results. Or better yet, put it where it fits best, and get some room eq ability. I transformed my bass to an entirely different level, without ever changing their locations by using a Minidsp and REW.
89grand is online now  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off