setting up subwoofer and avr for new sub - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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setting up subwoofer and avr for new sub

I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r. Now I'm hoping someone can explain how to set it up properly. this is my first sub that actually has settings on it.

i've got the volume at about 80%
delay phase 0
crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
auto power on

on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?

to me it doesn't sound right. bass is clean. cleanest bass i've ever heard in a home. i told my wife the rumbles felt like Warren Theaters. I could hear bass booms in the street. I tested it out on Tron Legacy. My favorite film for audio and visual effects. It could be just the way the audio is in the film but at several times they were fighting or even when he was on the motorcycle (not the light cycle) that the lows sounded like they were coming from the front or centers. there was no "thud thud thud" from the bike on the sub or fighting sounds on the sub.

Any advice?
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post #2 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 09:43 AM
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First off you have a problem with the sub gain. You want to set the sub to about 30-40% gain, and then run Audyssey. When you check your sub level in the AVR, the goal is to get it to 0dB. So in your case the AVR is turning the bass down because the sub is set too high. Once you get the level right on the sub and the AVR shows 0dB, or close to it, then you can go from there.

If you prefer more/less bass, then adjust it in the AVR, don't touch the gain on the sub. 90% of issues with subs are due to placement. Everyone has a different room with different acoustics, so there is no "right" place to put a sub. If you haven't already, do the "sub crawl" method to determine the best place in your room.

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post #3 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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is sub gain the same as the volume on the sub? I had to turn it so high so i could hear it.
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post #4 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:30 AM
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Yes sub gain = volume.

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post #5 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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i have a subwoofer cable going from pre out to LFE. should i plug it into a y jack and go into the L and R inputs instead?
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post #6 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:33 AM
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Keep in mind when a sub is properly blended you really shouldn't "hear" it. It should be seamless and sound as though your mains are producing the bass frequencies.

Problem is, most room acoustics are a nightmare for smooth bass, so you're going to have peaks and dips all over the place, and some of those peaks are going to excite areas in the room, so it's much harder to blend.I always recommend at least two subs, but I prefer 3 to help smooth the response. I used a Minidsp and REW to really solve the problems, but Audyssey should help quite a bit with that.
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post #7 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess by hear it i mean most of the bass sounded mid range. it wasn't very deep. with the gain up it felt lower and i could feel it.
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post #8 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 10:48 AM
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Like was said above set your sub volume to 30-40% and rerun Audyssey. The -12 reading means the sub is turned up way too high.

You're probably used to the boominess of your previous sub and it not supposed to be that way with a quality sub.

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post #9 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah. audyssey was ran with the previous sub. i'll run it tonight. thanks for the tips.
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post #10 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r.

crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
Are you using the sub's LFE input or not? You should be. If so, I believe that those settings are irrelevant. (It's the "LPF slope", btw.)


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Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
Can't really advise on this setting except to say that, provided the flattest room response is what you are after, you want to set it so that the AVR has to apply as little EQ as possible at the low end in order to achieve that. You really can't know without some combination of curiosity, fiddling, trial-and-error, and measurements.


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Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
Did you run Audyssey to get these settings? You said you had a HTiB sub. We do not know what speakers you have, but 80Hz may be too low a crossover setting for them. And you need to run Audyssey if you haven't.


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Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?
This is the correct setting for your setup. This means that the subwoofer will handle the LFE channel and any bass below the crossover point from those channels that are set to SMALL, but that it will NOT reproduce any bass from any LARGE channels.


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Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
Any advice?
As others said, your subwoofer's gain (yes, its volume knob) is set too high. Lower it.
And run Audyssey.

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post #11 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm using JBL studio 120 and studio 130 for fronts and center.
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I'm using JBL studio 120 and studio 130 for fronts and center.
Run Audyssey and see what it sets your crossovers at, I would wager 80-100Hz.

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post #13 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
I replaced a cheap HTiB sub with the rythmik lv12r. Now I'm hoping someone can explain how to set it up properly. this is my first sub that actually has settings on it.

i've got the volume at about 80%
delay phase 0
crossover 120
lfe slope 12db
bass extension i've tried different ones but currently high
auto power on

on the AVR (denon avr-x2000) i have fronts as small
center as small
i think my bass/sub says -12db
crossover for all speakers is 80
bass is set to LFE. does that mean the bass is handled only by the sub?

to me it doesn't sound right. bass is clean. cleanest bass i've ever heard in a home. i told my wife the rumbles felt like Warren Theaters. I could hear bass booms in the street. I tested it out on Tron Legacy. My favorite film for audio and visual effects. It could be just the way the audio is in the film but at several times they were fighting or even when he was on the motorcycle (not the light cycle) that the lows sounded like they were coming from the front or centers. there was no "thud thud thud" from the bike on the sub or fighting sounds on the sub.

Any advice?
Set the volume on the sub MUCH lower, somewhere between 25 and 40%. As has been stated, the level after Audyssey should be 0dB.

Set the sub crossover all the way up ... the receiver will handle the crossover region. Using both will just confuse the issue.

Is the sub at the front of the room? If so, the phase setting at or near zero is correct. if it is in the back of the room, the phase should be set at or near 180.

Also, sub positioning is the most important thing you can do to improve the bass in your room. Look up the "sub crawl" on this site and follow the directions. You are NOT looking for the loudest bass, you are looking for the most even bass you can get across the frequency spectrum. To that end, a test cd and dB meter from Radio Shack, or pc based software/microphone system, is the best way to verify what you are hearing.

As others have said, you are used to one-note "BOOMY" bass. That is BAD bass, like what you hear when when a teen's car goes by. Thump is NOT what you want out of your new, sub. What you want is integration, the ability to reproduce subtleties (yes, good bass has subtleties), and clean, tight response at every frequency.

The reason you are not hearing some of the bass response you are expecting from your test movie is because the current position of the sub is not conducive to even bass response. There are "holes" in the response at your seating position. Fix the positioning issue and you will find that the problem is solved.

Last edited by RayGuy; 07-23-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 01:36 PM
 
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I'd also suggest corner placement. Find a corner, on the front wall, and plop the sub down there. If it's front firing do NOT point it at you. Don't be that guy...


Start with the gain at 9 oclock (this is a quarter turn from all the way down). Run Audyssey and see where it trims the sub. If the Audyssey trim is a negative value, turn the gain down more, but if it's positive turn the gain up and repeat this whole process until the sub trims at 0, or close to it. ie -0.5 is ok


When you're done, make sure all of the speakers are set to small. If you have big towers for mains, you can notch their crossover point down to 60 or 40hz, but all other speakers need to be 80 hz.
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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the sub is huge. it can only fit in one spot and that is in the front right corner. i won't be able to use the sub crawl method.
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post #16 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
the sub is huge. it can only fit in one spot and that is in the front right corner. i won't be able to use the sub crawl method.
It's just as well really. I've never agreed with the "crawl" method. Yes, in theory it does work, but more often than not, you're going to find the best results with the sub in some stupid spot like right in the middle of the room, and you won't be able to put it there anyway so what's the point?

Most people only have so many available, practical locations, so just put it where it can go and live with the results. Or better yet, put it where it fits best, and get some room eq ability. I transformed my bass to an entirely different level, without ever changing their locations by using a Minidsp and REW.
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post #17 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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so i ran audyssey. got +5db on the sub and 40hz on the fronts and center
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
so i ran audyssey. got +5db on the sub and 40hz on the fronts and center
The crossover set by Audyssey is a bit too low. You should set it to 80hz. They are -3db 60hz so set it no lower than 60hz.
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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got it to .5 db and everything else is at 80hz. i was in the kitchen eating while testing tron legacy again. sounds so much better. to me it sounds like more sound is coming from the sub instead of just "thuds". just the audible throttle of the landing craft
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post #20 of 24 Old 07-23-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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i've never heard the balrog and bridge of khazad dum sound so good.
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post #21 of 24 Old 07-24-2014, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89grand View Post
It's just as well really. I've never agreed with the "crawl" method. Yes, in theory it does work, but more often than not, you're going to find the best results with the sub in some stupid spot like right in the middle of the room, and you won't be able to put it there anyway so what's the point?

Most people only have so many available, practical locations, so just put it where it can go and live with the results. Or better yet, put it where it fits best, and get some room eq ability. I transformed my bass to an entirely different level, without ever changing their locations by using a Minidsp and REW.
You are correct that most folks have a limited number of places to position the sub. That said, sometimes a difference of a foot or two can make a big difference in the FR at the seated position. It is a fallacy that you can EQ your way to great bass in situations where there is a huge null or two in the response. You can't fix nulls with EQ unless they are VERY shallow (not typically the case). EQ is great for fixing peaks, only positioning (or multiple subs) can fix nulls.
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-24-2014, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayGuy View Post
You are correct that most folks have a limited number of places to position the sub. That said, sometimes a difference of a foot or two can make a big difference in the FR at the seated position. It is a fallacy that you can EQ your way to great bass in situations where there is a huge null or two in the response. You can't fix nulls with EQ unless they are VERY shallow (not typically the case). EQ is great for fixing peaks, only positioning (or multiple subs) can fix nulls.
True, but I maintain that fixing huge peaks make the nulls a lot less noticeable, and having multiple subs reduce the nulls quite a bit.
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post #23 of 24 Old 07-24-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrynerdjosh View Post
got it to .5 db and everything else is at 80hz. i was in the kitchen eating while testing tron legacy again. sounds so much better. to me it sounds like more sound is coming from the sub instead of just "thuds". just the audible throttle of the landing craft
Glad it sounds better! Audyssey is very useful for calibrating everything, especially your sub. Just remember if you ever want to change the sub volume, do so in the receiver and leave the sub gain where it is.

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post #24 of 24 Old 07-24-2014, 01:13 PM
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True, but I maintain that fixing huge peaks make the nulls a lot less noticeable, and having multiple subs reduce the nulls quite a bit.
Also true, but I want all I can get. Nulls are robbing me of some portion of the experience! That makes me unhappy.

Just say NO to nulls!
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